PAF F-16 | Discussions

[Yasser76]

View attachment 152079

Plenty of options capped at 300km range though.

CM-98 stealth cruise missile
HD-1/HD-1A ramjet cruise missile

Raad and Babur now, would not be surprised if we have further refined them.

Ultimately we have seen, hypersonic is a much better way of ensuring success

 

[Asif kamal khan]

I’m an old member of this forum, for the past many years. Unfortunately absent sometimes for years. It was me among few who many years ago had highlighted that j10 is the only feasible optiont for PAF and everyone saw It coming and doing well. Now here is a question, why not we ask USA to allow us get Iraqi block 52 and upgrade them to v standard

 

[m52k85]

Some one needs to compare the induction timeline Amraam-Ds and AESA deployment in the USNavy and USAF. As far as I can tell, the first Amraam-D operational units were all Super Hornet based.

So it may be a case of, while Amraam-D is technically capabable of being used with APG-68, it is only practically ever used with AESA radars. This would mean PAF would first need to upgrade or acquire APG-83 based F-16s. So rather than anything imminent, these revelations probably mean we are several years from delivery.

The block 52 contract was signed in 2006, delivery started in 2010, and negotiations in 2004. So we could be in the equivalent of 2004/5 as of now.

 

[Ak01]

View attachment 152079

Plenty of options capped at 300km range though.

CM-98 stealth cruise missile
HD-1/HD-1A ramjet cruise missile

yeah these are export missiles.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

I would agree, but that was when all our eggs were in one basket with regards to high end weapons, not the case now. US kit is "nice to have" , not "must have" and I would argue any derailining of defence procurement this time would piss off the Saudis too.

PAF CAS and COAS lived through two bouts of US sanctions, we need to give them som credit here....

Commonality with the US systems is required for joint exercises and training. Looks like the US policynakers' Bharat dream is over. They want to reengage fully with Pakistan for ol' times sake. The last time they did it, and they became the sole super power. History sometimes repeats itself....

 

[Toxic]

yeah these are export missiles.

Which the American aren't willing to offer not sure what you are trying to say

 

[Ak01]

Which the American aren't willing to offer not sure what you are trying to say

yes because Pakistan actually cant be trusted to not strap a nuke warhead into them...

I say this as someone who is vehemently pro Pakistan. I wouldnt even trust Pak in this regard. Nobody is going to want to be associated with the perception of helping further somoene elses nuclear delivery systems.

 

[ziaulislam]

Pakistan to get aim120D

US to supply air-to-air missiles to Pakistan

US adds Pakistan to list of buyers for AIM-120D-3 air-to-air missiles under a $2.5B Raytheon deal, signaling renewed defense ties.

www.samaa.tv

 

[puttputt]

New build V's are likely - the number being eyed is 36(org req) for two sq of high end.
Maybe Back and forth in play regarding future of lowest airframe use MLUs - potentially to be kept or relegated to OCU or second line duties.

There will be a timeframe when PAF fleet will be vulnerable from a no's standpoint as it was during upgrade cycle for MLUs.

If the PAF signs onto Block-72s, then it's a clear sign that the NGFA is much farther out than what people anticipated. I imagine the PAF would basically look to scale up the Block-52/72 and J-10CE fleets from now and into the early 2030s, basically.

But one doctrinal issue here is that while they can potentially get the J-35AE and, in turn, it leads as the first strike option (e.g., for SEAD/DEAD), what would carry the follow-up? In this sense, the F-16s would be ideal IF we could load SOWs onto them. That or they config the J-10CEs for the attack role which they're technically capable of, but might not be the best use of that airframe (which was optimized for A2A in PLAAF).

So, one condition the PAF might attach to any F-16 purchase would, IMO, be the supply of SOWs, especially HARM, SDB, and JASSM (even if software capped to 300 km). I personally think SDB 2 is tenable, if anything. If no JASSM, then the alternative would be to rework the F-16 and J-10CEs as both mixed multirole units, with the J-10CEs carrying ALCMs and IREK-ERs/TJs and F-16s the SDB 2s. But I suspect the PAF would prefer F-16s for SOWs.

Depends on the Saab airframe life left. Technically Globaleye has enough commonality to be a depot level upgrade sans the Ground monitoring component upgrade.

Otherwise the PAF has is building up experience with the Global 6000 regardless.
Utopian world - PAF is operating Global 6000 Havasoj and Global 6000 Globaleyes. Talk about commonality.

Imagine if the PAF, PN, and PA had all gotten together to standardize on the Global 6000 from the start, leading to a LRMPA (instead of Lineage 1000E), EA/ECM, AEW&C, and even a battlefield management platform (with ground-facing SAR/GMTI) for the Army.

@Oscar new build F-16Vs? Won't that be too expensive?

Why not just get two squadrons worth of F-16s upgraded and call it a day?

DSCA notices tend to play up the total potential maximum value of a contract to secure Congressional approvals. They rarely ever reach the total quoted price. For what they are the F-16C/D Block-70/72s are still insane in value for money.

I’m an old member of this forum, for the past many years. Unfortunately absent sometimes for years. It was me among few who many years ago had highlighted that j10 is the only feasible optiont for PAF and everyone saw It coming and doing well. Now here is a question, why not we ask USA to allow us get Iraqi block 52 and upgrade them to v standard

It'd be ideal, but with no US contractors on the ground, those F-16s might as well as be as airworthy and sound as Venezuelan F-16s at this point. They're likely dead airframes that, at most, are good for spare parts.

 

[Night Memory]

I am not that technically minded, but MLU birds will soon be approaching 50 years old, V is an expensive upgrade, unsure if it would be worth it

V upgrade only makes sense in two scenarios:

If its cheaper than a brand new J-10C.

Or

We are getting SOWs like HARM or JASSM.

Otherwise we should stick to inducting more squadrons of J-10C which are sanction proof and from our iron brother.

 

[Taimoor]

Pakistan to get aim120D

US to supply air-to-air missiles to Pakistan

US adds Pakistan to list of buyers for AIM-120D-3 air-to-air missiles under a $2.5B Raytheon deal, signaling renewed defense ties.

www.samaa.tv

Hope we are not paying from our own meagre resources, they are not better then PL15s.

Maybe yanks want their product to be used against the guinea pigs in east and verify their effectiveness, since Chinese mal is now battle tested.

 

[Ak01]

Hope we are not paying from our own meagre resources, they are not better then PL15s.

did you get to try them both out?

 

[Oscar]

Any chance the PAF could pick up C/D models from former users, for a V upgrade on top of these new build V’s; swap out our oldest birds for younger ones to keep F-16 squadrons numbers at least to 4?

I couldn’t tell you either way - the MLUs PAF has are its own airframes so if it needs to pick up airframes it needs to look at existing usage, potential for Falcon UP or similar airframe refurbishment and then overall costs.
New builds may actually end up cheaper in such cases.

 

[Ak01]

If the PAF signs onto Block-72s, then it's a clear sign that the NGFA is much farther out than what people anticipated. I imagine the PAF would basically look to scale up the Block-52/72 and J-10CE fleets from now and into the early 2030s, basically.

But this is expected.

The only lots harping on about NGFA's in 1 year, then 2, then 3, etc are the typical jazbati raja baja types lol

I dont understand how anyone actually thinks its feasible. China has its own HUGE demands to meet, sure, they've got a megafactory blah blah, but i cant imagine them diverting any capacity to export until they've managed to shore up enough for their own. That atleast means a fair bit of time, not to mention all of the teething issues that WILL occur, the PAF will obviously want to see how these pan out and how the project is going, its all so new here, all of it is unproven and naturally they will want to see every aspect of the system prove itself, from the final product, to the supply chain etc.

But one doctrinal issue here is that while they can potentially get the J-35AE and, in turn, it leads as the first strike option (e.g., for SEAD/DEAD), what would carry the follow-up? In this sense, the F-16s would be ideal IF we could load SOWs onto them. That or they config the J-10CEs for the attack role which they're technically capable of, but might not be the best use of that airframe (which was optimized for A2A in PLAAF).

I think in both cases, F-16s and J-10s will be heavily relied upon for top cover/potshots, with J-35s in day 2 configs for the follow up strikes

It'd be ideal, but with no US contractors on the ground, those F-16s might as well as be as airworthy and sound as Venezuelan F-16s at this point. They're likely dead airframes that, at most, are good for spare parts.

Yeah, the Iraqis are retards, i remember, there was a story about their techs leaving spanners in the engines.

 

[Taimoor]

did you get to try them both out?

Arent you the one who was pitching Ds as having the longest BVR kill record by shooting some... drone.