Pakistan-Af: Operation Khyber Storm

[Jango]

Your whole premise is wrong. This issue is not about racism, this is not about discrimination, nobody mentioned "picking up Pathans". In fact if that statement came ot your mind then you need to look into your own racism.

Bhai aap un dinon Islamabad main thay?

If someone is undocumented, they should not be here. It simple law that goes on in the whole world. There is nothing so overly ominous about it. Afghanistan is not at war no more. When US/UK/Middle East send back undocumented people nobody cries and screams about "political limbo or racial profiling or discrimination etc, etc". It happens to Pakistanis in other countries too. Again, its not something being done to Afghans specifically, that happens to nobody else in the world.

When have I disagreed with this?

 

[RescueRanger]

That would be a mistake. Best options:

1/ sustained pressure from air.
2/shallow punishing raids with overwhelming force.

Exact a toll for every attack, don’t give target in return.

But it won’t happen.

Without a physical land barrier you will continue to have infiltration and be back to square 1.

 

[Liquidator]

Excellent move.

India thought it could give a message by inviting these fools.

Little did it know Pakistan too can play games.

Your move India

 

[Jango]

Fauj lost no narrative, really, it always retains the narrative at one side or the other.

Yesterday PMLN people were up in arms (crackdown, chadar and chaar deewari, death cells, adlia, bla, bla) and PTI was celebrating same page, today PTI is in up arms (crackdown, chadar and chaar deewari, death cells, adlia, bla, bla) and PMLN people are celebrating same page.

Its a musical chair that has continued since the 90s and PTI has already played 3 rounds in the last 12 years. And if you think PTI won't turn around and do it once more, then Pervaiz Elahi is still Punjab's Biggest Dakoo (not PTI president) and Sheikh Rashid won't ever be a Chaprasi of Imran Khan, either << which is a case in point that PTI leadership is not against Army, they are theoring tantrum until they become the favourite child again.

Fauj is going away nowhere, this circus of PTI/PMLN/PPP fooling the public at large, will continue.

Did you see the irony in your post?

 

[Aggregate]

I recall , back them we were told that COAS is like a Father of the country and must be respected. had Gen Faiz won the race to the COAS then that same page would've extended to present times. goes to show how sincere our "democratic" leaders are to their words.

everything in Pakistan has become an egotistic war between the god Emperor Khan and Hafiz in GHQ, the entire political discourse is over the greatness of one and the badness of the others. whether people of KP drown or get blown up, that doesn't matter but entire KP resources or spent on everything but for the betterment of this godforsaken province.
the war in May was a big chance for both warring parties to use it to announce a truce and reconciliation for the sake of unity and defence of the country and neither party (PTI and GHQ) wouldve risked facing the mockery of doing a deal out of fear but sadly the size of egos is bigger than the country on either side.

we really need to come back to the topic.
is the TTP leader confirmed dead? who else died with him? any follow up on the story? other than the attack by Taliban on the border posts and the TTP attack on police lines I have not seen anything else.

Precisely dude, it astounds me that the the same people who used to mock PMLN and PPP that they are on the "same page" .... used to gloat about RTS .... used to shut down everyone by asserting that anyone who is against army is Ghaddar .. termed Army Chief as "Father of Nation" .... used to laugh and mock others for being in Jails ... used to say 'chaddar and chaar deewari' do not matter if anyone is against the state ... Are now acting as if 2018 - 2022 did not exist at all and they are the most wronged people ever.

And the best part, is that ... if given back power today, they will do it all once more, 100% guaranteed. If someone doubts it, then they are way, way, too gullible.

 

[Jango]

We need to create a buffe zone - nothing else will solve this.

Do we have the resources for that?

One side of the buffer zone is the existing border we have...

Then you'd have to push in and maintain a year long presence at least to build some structures. The Afghan opposition would be in addition to the internal TTP threat you will face from the rear, so your supply isn't really that well secured either.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Did you read the FT article I posted ? It says Taliban are unwilling to tackle TTP partially for ideological reasons but more so as leverage against Pakistan to get diplomatic recognition and to keep TTP away from ISIS-K.

So instead of multiple waves of bombing Afghanistan and expelling refugees, which have proven ineffective, a better way could be to diplomatically recognize Taliban and work with it against ISIS-K. In return you can then ask Taliban to let go of TTP. The Taliban remember how Pakistan dumped them overnight and want reassurances to remain in power.

The faujis are misreading everything and again acting like wild bulls in a china shop.

to help you digest what I am going to write below, I will help you to recall what these Afghans did to the Iranians during the Israeli airstrikes, they provided intelligence to Israelis in their assassinations of scientists and the military personnel although Iranians didnt do any so called betrayal.


Afghans really dont need you to speak for them, their actions speak for themselves. even when they were serving green tea to the favorite Pakistani General of PTI i.e General Faiz they made it clear that they didnt recognize the borders and consider Pakistani land up to Attock as theirs.
yes they are enemies of ISIS but that can quickly change because like TTP, they share the takfiri ideology and violence like ISIS so they might make an alliance soon.
Pakistan was the last country like Saudis to leave those sons of bitches.
the ISI chief and Saudi intelligence chief prince Turki LA Faisal personally went to Afghanistan before the American invasion telling those clueless bastards to give up Osama.. Pakistan continued to take the blame, ridicule and suspicion of supporting these thankless POS for decades.

so no, sir Pakistan didnt betray them or dump them. Pakistan allowed their families to take refuge in Pakistan as the Northern alliance reached Kabul to do exactly what these goat fuckers and child molesters did to their families.

my gripe with Pakistani state and its establishment is that it keeps on getting bitten by these people again and again. whether the godless communists or the taqfiri throat slitting mullahs, their DNA is Afghani and they will do exactly what they are known to do.

 

[RescueRanger]

Do we have the resources for that?

One side of the buffer zone is the existing border we have...

Then you'd have to push in and maintain a year long presence at least to build some structures. The Afghan opposition would be in addition to the internal TTP threat you will face from the rear, so your supply isn't really that well secured either.

Well somthing needs to be done i see a lot of people suggesting x is not better than Y but very few workable solutions on the table right now.

Pakistan will have to think out of the box if there is to be meaningful course correction going forward. Any complacency and you will eventually have a far greater demon on your hands.

 

[Aggregate]

Did you see the irony in your post?

Yes precisely, the Irony does exist, that is my point !

PTI/PPP/PMLN all had a part of this nonstop irony that we are all living through.

Unless you wanna pretend that 2018 - 2022 never existed, then you can count PTI's role out of the irony, for sure.

In this whole context, its the army that matters ... and needs to matter, all else is musical chair, at best.

 

[RescueRanger]

Good news from Karachi tonight?

Let's wait and see.

 

[Oldenwisdom...قول بزرگ]

This is the best article I have found so far on this issue.

"Islamabad made a “strategic miscalculation” by betting that the Afghan Taliban would turn on the TTP, its ideological ally, said Maleeha Lodhi, a former Pakistani ambassador to the US and the UN."

Pakistan’s bet on Taliban backfires as violence surges

Islamabad had deadliest year in almost a decade following rise in terror attacks

www.ft.com

It isn't that clear-cut... Pakistan supported some... opposed some. What matters is that when the tide turned... The ones Pakistan opposed had only but one thing left double down on their support to the winning side becauseit was that or face oblivion.... while Pakistan remained cautious ... still playing the balancing act.

It was said decades ago and repeated ad nauseam that distant actors and meddlers will walk away... leaving for the second time the mess they created, policies and arm twisting they did to do-more behind for Pakistan to cater... it was shortsighted and wrong! Admit the mistakes and love like a neighbor who has no choice but to mend!

 

[Bilal]

Without a physical land barrier you will continue to have infiltration and be back to square 1.

That is where I don’t think the much ridiculed border fence was such a bad idea.

Fence is only one component l. The real barrier were the forts and post. That need to be done and reinforced with surveillance and offensive tech (read remote sentry systems). This need to serve as the linebacker.

If we can’t maintain a tight border with all the logistics advantage then we simply lack the capacity and capability to enforce a buffer zone which requires much more resources. It will be a disaster.

 

[Tamerlane]

Did you read the FT article I posted ?

I wanted to read it but it’s behind a paywall. Is it possible to post the text?

 

[Bilal]

Did you read the FT article I posted ? It says Taliban are unwilling to tackle TTP partially for ideological reasons but more so as leverage against Pakistan to get diplomatic recognition and to keep TTP away from ISIS-K.

So instead of multiple waves of bombing Afghanistan and expelling refugees, which have proven ineffective, a better way could be to diplomatically recognize Taliban and work with it against ISIS-K. In return you can then ask Taliban to let go of TTP. The Taliban remember how Pakistan dumped them overnight and want reassurances to remain in power.

The faujis are misreading everything and again acting like wild bulls in a china shop.

The diplomatic recognition will not solve the ideological and ISKP aspect. Nor the misgivings and a sense of revenge for 2001.

The only other option would be a tight border and patience for next 20-30 years. Starve them of the conflict they thrive on. Do we have that kind of patience, I don’t know.

 

[RescueRanger]

That is where I don’t think the much ridiculed border fence was such a bad idea.

Fence is only one component l. The real barrier were the forts and post. That need to be done and reinforced with surveillance and offensive tech (read remote sentry systems).

If we can’t maintain a tight border with all the logistics advantage then we simply lack the capacity and capability to enforce a buffer zone which requires much more resources. It will be a disaster.

Will need a supplementary force to police this. Unsustainable to position professional soldiers for any lengthy rotation here as pointed out earlier.

Pakistan Army needs to start thinking of out of the box solutions.

1. We need to restart NCC
2. Create a cadre of border patrol specially designed and equipped to patrol the western border points - six monthly rotations.
3. Utilise emerging technologies
4. Accept that we missed the window for narrative building post 2021 and that window has now gone inside Afghanistan. For the foreseeable the border and beyond should be treated as hostile.
5. Any strong mediation from third parties to "de-escalate" should come with concrete security guarantees.
6. The real end game for India here are resources and the take over of former US airbases inside Afghanistan. < this is a clear and obvious threat to Pakistan should this occur even at a limited technical assistance level (transfer of trainers/technicians from the Enemy into Afghanistan).