Israel Genocide in Gaza - 2023 to present - Part ll

[_Arabia_]

That is up to the Israelis and Palestinians to work out between themselves as the two parties directly involved. Both sides have been trying for a long time to get their own preferred solution into existence without much success thus far. Perhaps now they may come up with something more realistic? I do not know, but I sure hope they do.

Sure, but how do you deal with the massive amount of illegal Israeli settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem that keep increasing each month? They have effectively turned the West Bank into a patchwork of tiny Bantustans that they barely have any control of.

Look at the map that I posted.

Mapping the 21 illegal settlements Israel had in Gaza 20 years ago

Israel pulled its settlers and soldiers from Gaza in 2005 but maintained control of its borders, coasts, and airspace.

www.aljazeera.com

Most of the West Bank territory is not even under the control of the Palestinian Authority. You need to cross 100's upon 100's of checkpoints WITHIN the West Bank when traveling from city/town/village to the other, all controlled by Israel.

The Israelis were never interested in any two-state solution and practically nobody in Israel (of the political parties) even support such a thing anymore.

Do you see the US forcing the Israelis to close those illegal settlements and evacuate 700.000 Israelis into Israel proper which is tiny already as it is and is experiencing a housing crisis? Most of Israel/Palestine is composed of the Negev which is barely inhabited. They need space hence their land grabbing in Syria and attempts of doing the same in Southern Lebanon. Their population is also increasing for now so they will need additional space.

Looking at this from the outside all of this is a charade from everyone involved.

 

[VCheng]

Sure, but how do you deal with the massive amount of illegal Israeli settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem that keep increasing each month? They have effectively rendered the West Bank into a patchwork of tiny Bantustans that they barely have any control of.

But as @RescueRanger posted above, this thread is about Gaza, not the West Bank.

 

[_Arabia_]

But as @RescueRanger posted above, this thread is about Gaza, not the West Bank.

LOL, I don't think that you can talk about Gaza without talking about the West Bank when the topic is Palestine and the establishment of a Palestinian state.

Or are you also talking about Karachi, Lahore or Islamabad as separate entities when talking about Pakistan as a whole? Come on, don't be dense on purpose.

 

[VCheng]

LOL, I don't think that you can talk about Gaza without talking about the West Bank when the topic is Palestine and the establishment of Palestinian state.

That is up to the moderators to decide what the topic of this thread is, not me.

 

[Meengla]

It cannot be achieved through war. Is that not clear enough?

Sure, if Pakistan had a border with the entity and did not have to worry about the dalitised hordes to our east, if Saddam had not been ganged up on, if Gaddafi had been given a chance, if Iran was a little bit more capable and supported....

There are so many variables that have been managed so poorly by numerous nation states. So why is there any semblance of possibility that war will achieve justice in this particular case?

Why such distress today for something we have known for half a century?

If Trump has forced Israeli military and genocidal schemes to a sudden halt, then this may be the best that Palestine could have achieved from a position of total military defeat.

There is no other calculus at play here.

Now looking to the future, political options remain plausible, even in the near future, in the ongoing quest for some form of truth, reconciliation, and justice.

Yes, this is very much a negotiated instrument of surrender, but Palestine has more out of this than might have been the case a few weeks back, especially when you realise they had zero military leverage to use against Israel. All they ever had was the captives, which was never going to be enough to "win" this confrontation.

Very Good post.
Indeed it is a surrender and was crystal clear to me as the end result when the northern fronts folded several months ago; the laws of physics are eternal.

Pakistan couldn't do ANYTHING unless Pakistan wished a major destruction of its economy, loss of many lives, and even potentially endangering its territorial integrity; look at who is on Pakistan's east and west and the traitors/militants inside Pakistan.

But there is finally some peace. And I believe many Muslim nations relentlessly put pressure on Trump to prevent the Netanyahu's goal to totally annihilate the Gazan Resistance and occupy Gaza. Plus, even powerful MAGA voices are splitting MAGA over the Israel policy in America. So, some peace and now what we have are still almost two million Palestinians in Gaza who will form the basis of an eventual better life and even sovereignty in some distant future. Ask them if they are happy with this surrender or not; they seem they are.

Also, per reports, Americans have put in about 200 troops in Gaza's vicinity to enforce that Israel too complies and doesn't march in with tanks to take over rest of Gaza. What needs to happen is Muslim countries' armies guarding the borders of Gaza to ensure compliance by both sides.

 

[Meengla]

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You can criticise Shehbaz Sharif as much as you like but he clearly stole the show at the peace summit in Egypt. Trump was full of praise for Pakistan. What a huge change in fortunes from Biden days when he refused to make even a phone call to Pakistani PM Imran, who foolishly supported the regressive Taliban regime. I disagree with those who are criticising him for praising Trump. Pakistan is acting in its self-interest. A big advantage of dramatically improved US-Pakistan ties is that Pakistan has been de-hyphenated with extremism and terrorism. This is major diplomatic gain whether we like the hybrid set-up or not. And i say this as someone who has criticised every government in the past few decades for wrong policies. Pakistan's pivot to the US in Pakistan's interests. Foreign policy cannot be run on emotions and whims.

Pakistan's Foreign Office is efficient like the Pakistan Air Force: Very efficient, patient, and never loses sight of the geopolitical dangers and of Pakistan's grave economic vulnerabilities. Those two arms of the state of Pakistan are some of the few bright spots of the state of Pakistan.

 

[VCheng]

Yes, this is very much a negotiated instrument of surrender, but Palestine has more out of this than might have been the case a few weeks back, especially when you realise they had zero military leverage to use against Israel. All they ever had was the captives, which was never going to be enough to "win" this confrontation.

The real question here is where do matters go next. Instead of yet another cycle of broken promises and commitments leading to the next cycle of violence, the momentum generated by the cessation of hostilities must be kept going in a positive direction.

The influx of massive amounts of aid, especially food, medicine and energy supplies into Gaza must be ensured as quickly as possible to relieve the humanitarian catastrophe already unfolding.

 

[Shags101]

If it makes you feel any better, according to sources, the US liberals of "X" are having a hard time coping. Doing everything they can to give most of the credit for this to Biden.

Said to a couple of friends that if they think Biden should receive recognition for having set the stage for this, then they absolutely have to accept more citizens of Gaza died because of Biden's inaction in stopping the fighting.

how they put Biden in the White House is beyond me……….dont laugh but George Clooney I honestly think he could

 

[Shags101]

Multiple settler attacks reported in West Bank

* * *

www.timesofisrael.com

@Falcon26 I think i mentioned that the settlers were going to go on a bigger rampage than before I think trump is “right” not to say Palestinians shouldn’t be hateful if settlers and the occupation well let’s hope the democrats can actually take a page out of trumps playbook and not play exactly by the rules I don’t think trump is going to advocate for a Palestinian state he’s going look the other way while the Israelis build more settlements so they think Palestine can be erased I think it’s going to backfire miserably

@Falcon26 wasn’t for you but @Falcon29 why is falcon such popular user name lol sorry

 

[AZ_HighCountry]

how they put Biden in the White House is beyond me……….dont laugh but George Clooney I honestly think he could

Easy. "Anybody but ........".

Never accuse today's American voters of making good choices at the ballot box.

 

[j_hungary]

I won't blame you for being sceptical , things have reached the culmination point.... there's no option other than peace and Palestinian state.

And I see your point, and I really hope that I was wrong, but objectively, this changes nothing in the whole dynamic, unless there is a war on, Israel would have to call an election, and once that happens, Netanyahu would be gone, and he isn't just going to be back into civilian life, he is going directly to jail.

On the other hand, this ceasefire would be hinged a lot with Trump support, or, straightly speaking, supervision, and again, would Trump be a factor in this and keep Netanyahu in line? Trump is very businessman-like; if he did something for someone, there has to be something for him. It really does not take a genius to figure out that he did what he did in this deal because of the Nobel Prize. And that is now gone. I just don't think there is anything in it for him now.

As much as I want to think this is going to be the end of this tragedy, these two factors I just simply can't ignore.....

 

[Indos]

And I see your point, and I really hope that I was wrong, but objectively, this changes nothing in the whole dynamic, unless there is a war on, Israel would have to call an election, and once that happens, Netanyahu would be gone, and he isn't just going to be back into civilian life, he is going directly to jail.

On the other hand, this ceasefire would be hinged a lot with Trump support, or, straightly speaking, supervision, and again, would Trump be a factor in this and keep Netanyahu in line? Trump is very businessman-like; if he did something for someone, there has to be something for him. It really does not take a genius to figure out that he did what he did in this deal because of the Nobel Prize. And that is now gone. I just don't think there is anything in it for him now.

As much as I want to think this is going to be the end of this tragedy, these two factors I just simply can't ignore.....

Saying Trump is doing this for the sake of Nobel Prize shows lack of critical thinking. Not only you, but many even analysts speaking in big media

Most of them are those who has negativity in their head, criticizing every thing that other persons do

Man, every man and women on this earth also has heart. This is why so many deaths Palestinian women, kids, babies killed in this war lead to many European countries finally acknowledge Palestinian state to give pressure to Netanyahu

Those who has death hearth also those within Muslim that thinks that 70,000 Palestinian deaths where mostly women and kids are needed to make Palestinian get the support from Western, European leaders, and their society.

Dude, every man and women in this world, regardless their religion or fate also has hearth that understand what is justice or not

 

[Shags101]

And I see your point, and I really hope that I was wrong, but objectively, this changes nothing in the whole dynamic, unless there is a war on, Israel would have to call an election, and once that happens, Netanyahu would be gone, and he isn't just going to be back into civilian life, he is going directly to jail.

On the other hand, this ceasefire would be hinged a lot with Trump support, or, straightly speaking, supervision, and again, would Trump be a factor in this and keep Netanyahu in line? Trump is very businessman-like; if he did something for someone, there has to be something for him. It really does not take a genius to figure out that he did what he did in this deal because of the Nobel Prize. And that is now gone. I just don't think there is anything in it for him now.

As much as I want to think this is going to be the end of this tragedy, these two factors I just simply can't ignore.....

Well here’s hoping he goes to jail I think even trump has basically said he’s guilty of bribes kind of embarrassing he’s saying it out loud to Herzog that once he’s found guilty he should be pardoned maybe that’s another reason bibi went along with the whole ceasefire.
Definitely agree trump went along with this whole ceasefire for his own ego he rather people adore him than hate him no matter what he posts on Truth Social and if he’s willing to force the Israelis to go along with his plans maybe a real just peace(again not that he actually cares one way or the other about Palestinians or Israelis) if he can make the Israelis concede most of the West Bank with a land swap in the Negev desert or maybe convince the Egyptians to give up 10 miles for Gaza population or even expand Gaza through artificial means would work out

 

[Falcon29]

Very heavy Israeli propaganda on some platforms (especially Reddit World News) we're they're using bots to manipulate public opinion for their violation of ceasefire

Essentially stating openly that they don't respect ceasefire and are playing Hamas and the Palestinians

Israel heavily violated ceasefire today:

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[Falcon29]

Israel is working extremely hard to blow up this ceasefire, now reneging on promises to surge humanitarian aid by saying Hamas has been to slow in finding all the bodies of hostages (which mediators were clear would take some time, for obvious reasons).

From COGAT, Israel's authority to regulates aid traffic, provided by a source:

*Formal communication from COGAT*

"Yesterday, Hamas violated the agreement regarding the release of the bodies of the hostages held in the Gaza Strip.

"As a result, the political leadership has decided to impose a number of sanctions related to the humanitarian agreement that was reached.

"Starting tomorrow, only half of the agreed number of trucks — 300 trucks — will be allowed to enter, and all of them will belong to the UN and humanitarian NGOs, with no private sector involvement.

"No fuel or gas will be allowed into the Strip, except for specific needs related to humanitarian infrastructure."

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