mythbuster
Trusted Member
Many were cheering for Talibans including me ....I wasn't cheering for Talibans for their religious zealotry , I was cheering cause they were underdogs with an enviable fighting spirits.
Pakistan-Af: Operation Khyber Storm
- Thread starter side-winder
- Start date
- Status
Waz
Administrator
Things will never be the same again. Pakistan and the Taliban are pretty much enemies now.
Time to move them aside and forge strong ties with the other ethnicities. The whole strategic depth stuff was built on thin ice, especially since many of them had claims beyond the Durrand Line.
Time to move them aside and forge strong ties with the other ethnicities. The whole strategic depth stuff was built on thin ice, especially since many of them had claims beyond the Durrand Line.
Fatman17
Moderator
Ask DAWN
nahtanbob
Elite Member
When the Afghan Taliban returned to power in August 2021, it was a blow to India and a great strategic victory for Pakistan. It was a setback for India because its years of investment in the administrations of Karzai and Ghani went down the drain, as the new rulers in Kabul were perceived as pro-Pakistan and even Rawalpindi's proxy. Pakistan and India have competed for gaining a foothold in Afghanistan for decades. For Pakistan, denying India space in Afghanistan helps avoid a two-front situation - threats both from the eastern and western sides. For India, any pro-Pakistan setup in Afghanistan could embolden Islamabad's strategic options. Hence, Afghanistan's relationship with India and Pakistan will always carry regional implications.
Against this backdrop, the ongoing visit of Afghan Interim Foreign Minister Amir Khan Muttaqi is an extraordinary development. It is significant since this marks the first visit by any top Afghan Taliban functionary to New Delhi. India may have a history of friendly ties with Afghanistan, but it never engaged with the Taliban until now. That is why Muttaqi's visit is being viewed with keen interest in Pakistan and beyond. This was unimaginable when the Taliban took control of Kabul. No one would have thought that four years later, the Taliban's relationship with Islamabad would hit a roadblock while its foreign minister would embark on a weeklong trip to New Delhi.
In principle, every country has the sovereign right to pursue relations based on its own interests, so one cannot question Muttaqi's visit to New Delhi. But when it comes to Afghanistan and its outreach to India, it is not straightforward diplomacy given the geostrategic sensitivities. It was a bold and risky decision on the part of the Taliban government to dispatch its top diplomat to India at this stage. Pakistan and India are still trading blame following their four-day armed conflict in May. The Indian military leadership recently escalated the rhetoric, with the Indian army chief threatening to wipe Pakistan off the world map. This is staggering, given that no Indian army chief before has made such a blistering remark. Similarly, the Indian political leadership is ratcheting up the ante.
The Taliban government is certainly mindful of these developments, yet Muttaqi opted to visit India - perhaps sending a signal to Pakistan that Kabul is ready to put its ties with Islamabad at stake. During talks between Muttaqi and S Jaishankar, the Indian Foreign Minister, there were some significant takeaways. First, India decided to upgrade its diplomatic ties by restoring its mission's status to a full-fledged embassy. Remember, New Delhi shut its embassy in Kabul after the Taliban returned to power in August 2021, maintaining only a technical mission. This is a significant shift in India's strategic calculus as it embraces the Taliban. The Indian foreign minister particularly appreciated the Taliban's swift condemnation of the Pahalgam attack.
Another noteworthy move was India's offer to help the Taliban manage Afghanistan's water resources. This will not go unnoticed in Islamabad because India has already suspended the Indus Waters Treaty, and by offering technical assistance to the Taliban in managing water resources, New Delhi appears keen to further squeeze Pakistan's water options. For India, engaging the Taliban at a time when Afghanistan's ties with Pakistan are at their lowest is a move aimed at making inroads in Kabul and further upsetting Islamabad.
The Afghan Taliban, meanwhile, understand Pakistan's sensitivities regarding India, and hence Muttaqi's visit was not without a clear strategic objective. As Pakistan builds pressure on Kabul to crack down on TTP and other militant groups, the Taliban may see a reset in ties with India as a useful counterbalance. But this strategy by the Taliban is fraught with danger. The Taliban and India may inflict short-term discomfort on Pakistan, but Islamabad's counter-moves could make matters far worse for Kabul. Clearly, a new front has opened against Pakistan!
Against this backdrop, the ongoing visit of Afghan Interim Foreign Minister Amir Khan Muttaqi is an extraordinary development. It is significant since this marks the first visit by any top Afghan Taliban functionary to New Delhi. India may have a history of friendly ties with Afghanistan, but it never engaged with the Taliban until now. That is why Muttaqi's visit is being viewed with keen interest in Pakistan and beyond. This was unimaginable when the Taliban took control of Kabul. No one would have thought that four years later, the Taliban's relationship with Islamabad would hit a roadblock while its foreign minister would embark on a weeklong trip to New Delhi.
In principle, every country has the sovereign right to pursue relations based on its own interests, so one cannot question Muttaqi's visit to New Delhi. But when it comes to Afghanistan and its outreach to India, it is not straightforward diplomacy given the geostrategic sensitivities. It was a bold and risky decision on the part of the Taliban government to dispatch its top diplomat to India at this stage. Pakistan and India are still trading blame following their four-day armed conflict in May. The Indian military leadership recently escalated the rhetoric, with the Indian army chief threatening to wipe Pakistan off the world map. This is staggering, given that no Indian army chief before has made such a blistering remark. Similarly, the Indian political leadership is ratcheting up the ante.
The Taliban government is certainly mindful of these developments, yet Muttaqi opted to visit India - perhaps sending a signal to Pakistan that Kabul is ready to put its ties with Islamabad at stake. During talks between Muttaqi and S Jaishankar, the Indian Foreign Minister, there were some significant takeaways. First, India decided to upgrade its diplomatic ties by restoring its mission's status to a full-fledged embassy. Remember, New Delhi shut its embassy in Kabul after the Taliban returned to power in August 2021, maintaining only a technical mission. This is a significant shift in India's strategic calculus as it embraces the Taliban. The Indian foreign minister particularly appreciated the Taliban's swift condemnation of the Pahalgam attack.
Another noteworthy move was India's offer to help the Taliban manage Afghanistan's water resources. This will not go unnoticed in Islamabad because India has already suspended the Indus Waters Treaty, and by offering technical assistance to the Taliban in managing water resources, New Delhi appears keen to further squeeze Pakistan's water options. For India, engaging the Taliban at a time when Afghanistan's ties with Pakistan are at their lowest is a move aimed at making inroads in Kabul and further upsetting Islamabad.
The Afghan Taliban, meanwhile, understand Pakistan's sensitivities regarding India, and hence Muttaqi's visit was not without a clear strategic objective. As Pakistan builds pressure on Kabul to crack down on TTP and other militant groups, the Taliban may see a reset in ties with India as a useful counterbalance. But this strategy by the Taliban is fraught with danger. The Taliban and India may inflict short-term discomfort on Pakistan, but Islamabad's counter-moves could make matters far worse for Kabul. Clearly, a new front has opened against Pakistan!
krash
THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
Same "naivety" at play. Don't forget that we too break our television sets after losing a cricket match.
hydrabadi_arab
SpeedLimited
Collateral damage.
Aggregate
Registered Member
That support for Afghans depends on perspectives. Someone like me who has always seen previous Imran Khan Govt as a huge mistake and his policies disastrous for Pakistan, never cheered for Taliban as I was never in favour of what Imran Khan / Bajwa /Faiz Hameed were doing at the time as Pakistan had spent 5 years in NS Govt rooting out terrorism in Pakistan.
Imran Khan got 31% popular vote in 2018 (with strong rigging allegations), while Nawaz Sharif got 32% popular vote in 2013. So just by that extension, you can work out that less Pakistanis would stand behind IK's policies theoretically (IK seems more popular to most people because he made a far better use of Social Media and his supporters are far more outspoken and dedicated, but even at his peak popularity, he was not that much popular as widely portrayed to be by his supporters in any major surveys)
My point being that saying 'most Pakistanis cheered for Taliban' is a fundamentally wrong statement, a huge number protested those moves and warned against it, just that Imran Khan has an over-representation on any internet based Media, maybe not now, but definitely back in 2021. So you would always assume more 'online' support for his policies back then.
Also, most Pakistanis took Taliban's earlier actions as grievances against the US and hoped them to change . Now a second chance for Taliban has pretty much cemented the thinking that they are just do not like Pakistan and we cannot do anything about it. So replacing them with someone friendlier is just a better option overall, there is no more debate on this choice as of now.
Last edited:
Distant_Observer
Trusted Member
gamaji
Registered Member
Different times and dynamics. Kandhari gang committed (by signing the Doha agreement) that:
1) Afghan land will not be used for terrorism against other countries.
2) A broad-based representative government will take over in Afghanistan.
These Kandhari terrorists resorted in doing just the opposite. They became the partners of the TTP terrorists and started sending Afghan nationals for terrorist attacks in Pakistan.
In fact, the Kandahari terrorist gang is hosting a whole bunch of global terrorist organizations in Afghanistan. That poses a grave threat to the regional and global peace. That's why all major powers (India is not one) want these terrorists be toppled. Only India's Hindutva terrorist Modi is actively supporting these Kandahari terrorists and increasing the grave threat to regional and global peace.
Also, contrary to their commitment for a broad-based Afghan government, they started suppressing the people of Afghanistan, especially the Afghan women.
Like in 2001, these ignorant and illiterate Kandahari fools are not paying heed to the concerns of international community. Rather they are acting as a direct threat to global peace by refusing to stop supporting and eliminating those global terrorists organizations in Afghanistan.
These are unreliable greedy terrorists who are pushing innocent people of Afghanistan into a war with Pakistan. War, it seems, has become a business for them.
Master Chief
Trusted Member
You, and all Indians, fail to acknowledge facts about Afghanistan in every single one of your little misdirectional monologues about the matter.
Since the independence of the nation state of Pakistan from regions under British imperial control in 1947, and this is the umpteenth time I have delivered this history lesson for the benefit of Indians, Kabul has REFUSED to accept Pakistan's sovereignty and therefore its existence as a sovereign entity.
No Afghan regime is perfect for Pakistan in light of the above policy. For two decades, the Talibs have been the least bad option out of many bad options for Pakistan.
Now let us discuss Delhi's involvement.
The real question is, given the above geopolitical context, why has India decided to pick and choose the single most belligerent entity towards Pakistan at any given time in history to be the latest bedfellow for hindutva?
Delhi can no longer pretend to care for Afghan "development" or "humanitarianism" because the flip flopping between NA and Talibs by Delhi is hard evidence that India is guided solely by the degree of belligerence towards Pakistan when selecting its allies in this godforsaken land.
Let me recap - Pakistan chooses its partners in Afghanistan on the basis of how belligerent that entity is regarding the Durand Line and Pakistani sovereignty.
India does EXACTLY THE SAME.
And yet, we are told that we don't live rent free in the minds of your people!
Olympus81
Trusted Member
The TTA and TTP can resort to asymmetrical warfare by dispatching suicide bombers into cities within Pakistan. That will be a constant threat to Pakistan’s internal security.
Honestly, the only way we find out whether these strikes were a success if there are long term peace within Pakistan. That remains to be seen.
In hindsight, the Pakistani state deeply miscalculated its Afghan’s policy. After America’s exit, everyone thought Afghanistan issue will be in the back burner and focus will be on the East. How wrong could one be.
Not trying to diss any particular institution but if tomorrow DG ISPR says Taliban are our brothers and we should make peace with them, half of the forum members will concur. Same goes with some of the supporters of the political parties.
Having said that, Pakistan doesn’t seem to have a long term plan to tackle this complex issue. The PM is busy doing what he does and the parliament, however sham it may be, is non existent.
Questions that need to be asked around seminars breeding takfiri ideology, repatriation of refugees, sifting through terrorist in our midst, locals apologetic to TTA / TTP, growing extremism within the society, constant underhand when it comes to making deals with terrorists, strengthening governance in KP / Balochistan, proper border management etc. But some of these conversations are totally absent from the public discourse.
Honestly, the only way we find out whether these strikes were a success if there are long term peace within Pakistan. That remains to be seen.
In hindsight, the Pakistani state deeply miscalculated its Afghan’s policy. After America’s exit, everyone thought Afghanistan issue will be in the back burner and focus will be on the East. How wrong could one be.
Not trying to diss any particular institution but if tomorrow DG ISPR says Taliban are our brothers and we should make peace with them, half of the forum members will concur. Same goes with some of the supporters of the political parties.
Having said that, Pakistan doesn’t seem to have a long term plan to tackle this complex issue. The PM is busy doing what he does and the parliament, however sham it may be, is non existent.
Questions that need to be asked around seminars breeding takfiri ideology, repatriation of refugees, sifting through terrorist in our midst, locals apologetic to TTA / TTP, growing extremism within the society, constant underhand when it comes to making deals with terrorists, strengthening governance in KP / Balochistan, proper border management etc. But some of these conversations are totally absent from the public discourse.
aurelianpilled
Registered Member
Hard to believe, since the Afghan Taliban leaders would be signing their own death warrants if any sort of major attack (mass suicide bombings/IED blasts) occurs in our major cities.
My sincere guess is that this will be the new normal, we will again start the carnage if anything big happens in Pakistan
PakistanLVR
Registered Member
No they are not except just a few. Pakistan will not easily let them back at it. I'm sure you Indians would love that as it would provide a backdoor via Israeli parasites on the back off their American hosts. We know Hindutva will go to any length in combating Muslims nations - even cheering on a genocide of innocence population so they can get their fix of Islamic gore.
Aggregate
Registered Member
They need to make up their minds first:
At one hand they are refusing to accept Pakistan bombed them by saying it was an oil tanker. On the other hand they are showing the damages as being due to Pakistani Bombing.
- Status
Users who are viewing this thread
Pakistan Defence Latest
Country Watch Latest
Latest Posts
-
-
Norway Approves Tesla’s FSD Testing on Public Roads; Potential for Europe-Wide Deployment (2 Viewers)- Latest: Hamartia Antidote
-
-
UK Racism against Muslims and Brown people: Why are blacks in the UK given a free pass by white english racists? (13 Viewers)- Latest: Master Chief
-
