Indian Navy News & Discussions

Brother, 220 F-16s and E-7s are no joke, neither is their UCAV force.

Yes, they are missing stealth and AESA fighters but this is something they are remedying at pace
Those 220 F16 are older blocks, yes some are upgraded but most of fleet is outdated.
While it's adversary is operating Rafale, F16 blk30, 52+ & vipers
And planning for 20+20 F35 fighters.
That's some dream air power and Turkish Air Force stand no chance against HAF.

And Erdogan is responsible for this mess.
 
Waz it's just a diplomatic excercises no big deal

As for Indian weapons since operation Sindoor there is far more interest in Brahmos Akashteer anti Drone avd Akash Sams globally and recently Pinaka mbrl

True.
Not sure about the drones but rest is correct.
 
Afkurs you are a victim and totally nothing to do with your regional policies which are creating space for others.
As is Turkey’s in its neighbourhood.
As is Pakistan’s in its neighbourhood on it’s two largest borders.
 
Those 220 F16 are older blocks, yes some are upgraded but most of fleet is outdated.
While it's adversary is operating Rafale, F16 blk30, 52+ & vipers
And planning for 20+20 F35 fighters.
That's some dream air power and Turkish Air Force stand no chance against HAF.

And Erdogan is responsible for this mess.

OUTDATED ?
Turkiye spent over $5,5 billion for network centric warfare capability
-- 163 F-16s with CCIP modernization ( link-16 )
-- 29 F-16 Block50+ with link-16 data link
-- 120 km AIM-120C7 networked air to air Missiles
-- 4 Boeing E-7T AEWC

Turkiye has more Fighter Jets than Greece for network centric warfare
192 Turkish F-16s ...... vs ...... 42 F-16V + 29 F-16 Block52 ( total of 71 F-16s )

Both Countries have 120 km AIM-120C7 air to air missiles for F-16s
but 192 Turkish F-16s can use 600 km AESA Radar of 4 Boeing E-7T AEWCs to detect Greek F-16s from 350 km away and to guide 120 km AIM-120C7s in BVR combat

so Turkish Air Force can match with Hellenic Air Force F-16s in BVR combat even without AESA Radar


------------------------------------

Greece bought 24 RAFALE Jets
on the other hand , Turkiye bought S400 Air Defense Systems with 192 Missiles

if Turkiye want , Turkiye can block Aegean Sea with S400s
also 150+ km Turkish SIPER Block2 Air Defense System has network centric warfare capability to shoot down 24 Greek RAFALEs

4 Boeing E-7T AEWCs can detect Greek RAFALEs from 300 km away and can guide 150+ km SIPER B2 Missiles to shoot down Greek RAFALEs

also USA approved sale of 54 AIM-120C8 air to air missiles to Turkiye
25 Turkish F-16 Block50+ will be armed with 50 AIM-120C8 air to air missiles ( 160 km ) to match with 24 Greek RAFALEs


--------------------------------

Greece and India only can dream about upcoming Turkish Air Force by 2030


1 -- 200 modernized F-16s until 2030

Turkiye has started modernizing 200 F-16s with MURAD-100A AESA Radar and 180-200 km GOKBORA - GOKHAN ramjet powered air to air Missiles

also Turkiye buys 40 new F-16Vs with 160 km AIM-120C8 air to air Missiles
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2 -- Turkiye buys 40 Eurofighter T-4s with 400 METEOR air to air Missiles
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3 -- 20 KAAN Fighter Jets until 2030 with MURAD-600A AESA Radar and 180-200 km GOKBORA - GOKHAN air to air Missiles
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4 -- KIZILELMA and ANKA-3 unmanned stealth Fighter Jets with MURAD-100A AESA Radar and 185+ km GOKBORA air to air Missiles easly to shoot down Greek F-16Vs and RAFALEs in BVR combat
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5 -- 4 Boeing E-7T AEWCs and 4 ASOJ-23A stand off jammer Aircraft
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6 -- Great Air Defense capability

240-380 km S-400 Air Defense Systems ( 192 Missiles )
150-250 km SIPER Block-2 Air Defense System

Turkish ALP-300G AESA Radar detect F-35s from 120+ km away and to fire 150+ km SIPER B2 Missiles to shoot down F-35s
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Turkish Air Force gets 300 Fighter Jets with AESA Radar and 160-200 km AIM-120C8 , METEOR , GOKBORA , GOKHAN air to air Missiles until 2030

also dozens of KIZILELMA and ANKA-3 unmanned stealth Fighter Jets
 
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Turkey has a good domestic defence manufacturing capability but not so good as is being touted by few kids.

Still some Kids have no knowledge about great Turkish Defense Indusrty

We are waiting for TF-6.000 , TF-10.000 and TF-35.000 turbofan Engines to become one of top 5 in the world

USA
Russia
China
Turkiye
The UK-France ( Europe )

Turkiye needs only another 5-7 years
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Turkiye has developed air platforms and made them fly , just waiting for indigenous turbofan engines to become a completely real military power
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Turkiye equips its Army , Navy and Air Force with entirely indigenous Weapons and Systems

Fighter Jets , unmanned stealth Fighter Jets , UCAVs , Attack and Utility Helicopters , 285 m Aircraft Carrier , LHD , FAC , OPV , Corvette , Frigates , Destroyer , AIP Submarine , Air Defense Systems , supersonic and hypersonic Missiles , Ballistic Missiles , Satellites , AESA Radars , Electronic Warfare Systems and many more .... ( over 1.100 military projects )

Countries like Greece and India are unlikely to pose a threat to Türkiye in the Eastern Mediterranean
 
Turkey has a good domestic defence manufacturing capability but not so good as is being touted by few kids.

Still some Kids have no knowledge about great Turkish Defense Indusrty

Turkiye has joined the select group of Countries producing Air to Air, Surface to Air, Air to Ground, Cruise and Ballistic Missiles indigenously

Conventional Weapons

USA
China
Russia
Turkiye
Israel
India


Air to Air Missiles
-- BOZDOGAN WVR with IIR seeker
-- GOKDOGAN BVR with RF seeker
-- GOKBORA ramjet powered long range air to air missile .. ( under development )
-- GOKHAN ramjet powered long range air to air missile .. ( under development )


Air Defense Missiles
-- SUNGUR MANPADS
-- HISAR-A short range air defense missile
-- HISAR-O medium range air defense missile
-- GOKDEMIR medium range air defense missile
-- SIPER Block1/2 long range air defense missile
-- HISAR-D RF ( naval version ) with RF seeker
-- SIPER-1D ( naval version ) with RF seeker
-- GOKSUR PDMS ( naval version ) with IIR seeker
-- LEVENT PDMS ( naval version ) with dual seeker (RF+IIR)


Anti-Tank Missiles
-- KARAOK shoulder launched anti-Tank Missile
-- OMTAS anti-Tank Missile
-- TANOK 120 mm Laser Guided Tank Cannon Munition
-- L-UMTAS GM ( laser + datalink ) 20 km
-- UMTAS-GM IIR ( IIR + datalink ) 20 km
-- UMTAS-GM Block2 ( IIR + TV + datalink ) 50 km ... ( under development )


Air to Ground Missiles
-- CIRIT laser guided Missile
-- UMTAS anti-Tank Missile
-- KUZGUN-KY modular Missile with IIR seeker
-- EREN Missile with IIR seeker
-- IHA-122 laser guided supersonic Missile
-- IHA-230 laser guided supersonic Ballistic Missile
-- 300-ER supersonic Ballistic Missile with TV seeker
-- AKBABA supersonic anti-radiation Missile with RF seeker .. ( under development )

Cruise Missiles
-- KUZGUN-TJ with IIR or RF seeker
-- KEMANKES with E/O Camera
-- SUPER LIGHTNING with E/O Camera
-- CAKIR anti-ship and land attack with hybrid seeker IIR+RF
-- SOM anti-ship and land attack with IIR Seeker
-- ATMACA anti-ship Missile with RF seeker and dual seeker ( RF+IIR )
-- GEZGIN land attack Cruise Missile for the Navy


LAND SYSTEMS
-- TRLG-122 guided Missile ( MLRS )
-- TRLG-230 guided Missile ( MLRS )
-- TRLG-300 guided Missile ( MLRS )
-- KUZGUN-KY modular Missile with IIR seeker
-- EREN Missile with IIR seeker
-- YILDIRIM ( J600T ) Tactical Ballistic Missile ... supersonic
-- BORA ( KHAN ) Tactical Ballistic Missile ... supersonic
-- TAYFUN medium-range Ballistic Missile (MRBM) .. hypersonic
-- CENK medium-range Ballistic Missile (MRBM) .. hypersonic
-- CAKIR surface-to-surface Cruise Missile
-- KARA-ATMACA surface-to-surface Cruise Missile
-- GEZGIN surface-to-surface Cruise Missile


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ROKETSAN General Manager Murat İkinci
All of the missile and rocket systems we have developed have a domestic navigation system that has the ability to find target coordinates without being dependent on GPS.

Turkiye has an army that fights with its own weapons systems. This means it has an army that can wage war with its own weapons systems without needing any external resources and achieve success. This is invaluable in our geography.

-------------------------------------------------

VLS with Long Range SAMs in the World (USA, Russia, China, Turkiye and France)

USA :
MK-41 VLS .... SM-2 , SM-6 SAMs
France : SYLVER VLS .... ASTER-30 SAM
Turkiye : MILDAS VLS .... SIPER-1D SAM
China : GJB 5860-2006 VLS .... HHQ-9 SAM
Russia : 3S14 VLS .... 9M96 SAM

Roketsan MIDLAS VLS
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NATO's Surface-to-air Missiles developed to protect Naval Platforms from anti-ship Missiles

USA : 50+ km ESSM
Turkiye : 40+ km HISAR-D RF
France-Italy : 30 km ASTER-15
The UK : 45 km CAMM-ER
 
Here. You have answered yourself.

I do agree that Turkey has done some good work but it still lacks in many critical ones. Engine technology is one such area.
These engines are still in advanced design phase. Design phase to making one is where all the issues are faced. I am not saying that Turkey can’t do it but let’s not make any claims till they atleast start testing one.

Turkey is buying Eurofighters with Meteor. Why? Isn’t it producing it’s own aircraft and BVRs? Obviously there are issues in either scale or the capabilities of these projects.

Turkey is doing good work but still not there yet.

You are a passionate Turk as visible from your lengthy posts supporting your cause and your defence industry.

But, please be a realistic one and also accept where the Turkish capabilities aren’t there yet. This might make you a realistic poster rather than a fanboy poster that you appear to be.
Let me also accept that Turkish defence industry is ahead of Indian one in many fields but behind in a few.
 
I do agree that Turkey has done some good work but it still lacks in many critical ones. Engine technology is one such area.
These engines are still in advanced design phase. Design phase to making one is where all the issues are faced. I am not saying that Turkey can’t do it but let’s not make any claims till they atleast start testing one.

I said that We are waiting for TF-6.000 , TF-10.000 and TF-35.000 turbofan Engines to become one of top 5 in the world


TF-6000 turbofan Engine
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TF-10.000 turbofan Engine

  • Thurst (SLS, ISA): 6.000 (Dry) / 10.000 (Wet) lbf
  • Dimensions (WidthxHeightxLength): 870x1150x3150mm
  • By-pass Ratio (SLS, ISA):1
    • Fan: 2 Stage Axial
    • Compressor: 6 Stage Axial
    • Turbine: 1 Stage HPT - 1 Stage LPT
    • Combustion Chamber: Through Flow
    • Afterburner
    • 1760929138859.png
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Türkiye is not starting engine development from scratch

Türkiye has experience in producing parts and modules for gas turbine engines since 1987

TEI has been manufacturing approximately 1500 parts across a wide range of products for the aviation industry in line with the principles of sensitivity and innovation since 1987 .... ( for 50 different types of military and commercial engine programs )

Turkiye has blisks and spools manufacturing also single crystal blade technologies which are currently produced by only a few Countries in the world
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Materials and progress technologies also have an importance in the development and sustainability of Turkish Engine Projects , especially in the TF-35.000 Engine

( the fields of high temperature applications, super alloys, precision casting, coating technologies , ceramics and porous structures. )

TEI had to produce even the first Pure Nickel and the first Pure Cobalt in Turkiye
because they were also coming from abroad. while producing Engines


---------------------------------

There are two companies in the world that can process aircraft engine turbine blades with the additive manufacturing Nickel Superalloy method

one is General Electric from USA , the other is TEI from Turkiye

Additive manufacturing technologies
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Utility Helicopter with Turboshaft Engine Technology in the World

USA : S-70 Black Hawk ( General Electric T700-GE-701D )
UK : AW159 Wildcat - Rolls-Royce Turbomeca RTM322
France : EC-725 ( Turboméca ( SAFRAN ) Makila 2A1 )
Russia : MI-38 ( Klimov TV7-117V )
China : Z-18 ( WZ-6C )
Turkiye : T-625 Gökbey ( TEI TS-1400 )

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The engine issue is now just a matter of time for Turkiye and this time is only 5-7 years.
 
Turkey is buying Eurofighters with Meteor. Why? Isn’t it producing it’s own aircraft and BVRs? Obviously there are issues in either scale or the capabilities of these projects.

Turkey is doing good work but still not there yet.


Turkiye buys 40 Eurofighters with METEOR and 40 F-16V with AIM-120C8
because USA blocked sale of 100 F-35A to Turkiye in 2018

Turkish Air Force urgently needs Fighter Jets to replace old F-4 fleet


--------------------------

Turkish projects are progressing very successfully
-- Manned and unmanned stealth Fighter Jets : KAAN , KIZILELMA , ANKA-3
-- AESA Radars ( MURAD-100A and MURAD-600A )
-- Air to Air Missiles : BOZDOGAN , GOKDOGAN , GOKBORA , GOKHAN

until 2030 , all these Fighter Jets will be combat ready with indigenous AESA Radar and Air to Air Misiles


even GOKDOGAN air to air Missile will be enough ...( in inventory )
Range : 100+ km
Speed : Mach 4+
solid-state RF seeker
advanced counter-measure capability
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KIZILELMA and ANKA-4 unmanned stealth Fighter Jets have much lower RCS than F-15EX , F-16V , RAFALE , SU-35 , J-10C and all 4,5th gen Fighters
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Turkish unmanned stealth Fighter Jets will put forward a "new military doctrine" in the world to shoot down 4,5 gen Fighters in BVR combat
 
Turkish projects are progressing very successfully
Hey man, I say again, you are a very passionate Turk.

But, remember the word you have used yourself - progressing.
A project progressing fast may not produce a great platform or a great system.
One can claim success when the project is finished and a system delivered.
I have already accepted the fact that Turkey is moving very fast but it is a long process. Till then they are just projects.

One more request - You are in the habit of making all posts with a large number of pictures which makes them lengthy and at times irrelevant to the discussion. Please consider keeping them concise.
 
But, please be a realistic one and also accept where the Turkish capabilities aren’t there yet. This might make you a realistic poster rather than a fanboy poster that you appear to be.
Let me also accept that Turkish defence industry is ahead of Indian one in many fields but behind in a few.

I am showing just reality ... no any fake news or no any project that has not been publicly announced

in 2019 , When I said KAAN Fighter Jet will make maiden flight in 2023
Indians , Iranians , French , Chinese users called me a fanboy and KAAN Fighter Jet as a wooden mock-up .... they made fun of KAAN project

but over time, the entire PDF saw who was proven right
The engine issue will be the same, just wait and see


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if we exclude nuclear technologies

India is ahead of Turkiye only in Ballistic Missile technology ( in hypersonic )

in general , Turkish Defense Industry is ahead of India

Turkiye has started building 285 m MUGEM Aircraft Carrier , TF-2000 class Destroyer and MILDEN AIP Submarine

and not India but Turkiye sold 13 Warships (Corvette - Frigate ) to Pakistan , Ukraine , Turkmenistan , Romania , Indonesia , Maleysia


Indian Defense Industry no longer has any advantage other than Ballistic Missiles towards Turkiye

But within 5 years, Türkiye will catch up with India in the Ballistic Missile field too
 

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