Russia-Ukraine War - News, Discussions & Updates

[hasssanali8998]

30 dead Russians

all for the ego of one man

 

[F-22Raptor]

all for the ego of one man

They’ve all died for nothing. All because Putin can’t accept Ukraine wants to be independent from Russia.

 

[Hendarto]

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[Viet]

Xi Jinping: ‘Stop blaming China. China is not helping Russia, but if it decides to help, God will not help you. Almost the whole world is helping Ukraine. If we see a threat of World War III, we will help Russia, but for now, relax and watch as Russia single-handedly defeats more than 50 countries.’
CHINA
The Chinese Foreign Ministry has stated that Beijing will not remain inactive with regard to the conflict in Ukraine.

You missed the second part. Yes, Ccp will not let Russia to lose, but not to win, either. This war of attrition is the best scenario. can continue for 20 more years. By then Putin is too old to continue this killing.

 

[Yommie]

Ukrainian Donbas continues to lose ground to Russian Donbas.

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[MH.Yang]

You missed the second part. Yes, Ccp will not let Russia to lose, but not to win, either. This war of attrition is the best scenario. can continue for 20 more years. By then Putin is too old to continue this killing.

It's the EU that doesn't want Russia to win, not China. China only has the ability to keep Russia from losing, but China has no to defeat NATO on the other side of the Earth. China has never stopped any ceasefire negotiations, and it is Zelensky who refuses to ceasefire.

 

[vizier]

It's the EU that doesn't want Russia to win, not China. China only has the ability to keep Russia from losing, but China has no to defeat NATO on the other side of the Earth. China has never stopped any ceasefire negotiations, and it is Zelensky who refuses to ceasefire.

Mostly I agree. For 3 years it was zelensky who refused the ceasefire but now they accepted to freeze the conflict unconditionally. Now it is putin who refuses the ceasefire and wants whole donetsk region as a precondition for the ceasefire.

Some preconditions are necessary I agree to make the conflict stop but it is not a land swap that Ukraine will never accept(Eu wont accept it too as sponsors). A middle way can be found like remaining donetsk can be a buffer zone that multi national Un forces(European and Chinese from both sides of the conflict) can be stationed there. It will be a larger buffer zone than the remaining loc but it is still doable. That would secure water reserves for Ru controlled donetsk. Remaining donetsk has no strategic value other than water reserves that can be secured by an agreement or a buffer zone both solutions will secure the water reserves.
Frozen assets return can revive Russian economy with reduction of sanctions.
Another condition should be Ukr can be stopped having not allowing them any more fighter jets or fighter drones. Sweden plans to transfer about 100+Gripens. In near future Usa-Eu will test cheap stealth loyal wingman drones on Russian Sukhois if this situation continues.

Ukraine has disadvantage in manpower but advantage in location having proximity to Eu-nato. Ukraine can produce everything in Eu, supply energy from Eu and Russia cannot attack anywhere there. Somewhat like Vietnam war that Usa couldnt attack China-Soviet bases in proximity but an additional advantage now is that Ukraine can and does attack anywhere inside Russian mainland. So Ukraine is in a much advantageous position than Nazi Germany of ww2 which was isolated or even Vietnam-NK that were supported by Russia-China but couldnt attack Usa mainland.

However even if putin accepts this kind of a deal freezing of hostilities then zelensky will come up with something else. I dont trust both of these guys. Sorry. But now the ball is on Russias court to come up with more logical preconditions for the ceasefire.

 

[MH.Yang]

Mostly I agree. For 2 years it was zelensky who refused the ceasefire but now they accepted to freeze the conflict unconditionally. Now it is putin who refuses to ceasefire and wants whole donetsk region as a precondition for the ceasefire.

Some preconditions are necessary I agree to make the conflict stop but it is not a land swap that Ukraine will never accept(Eu wont accept it too as sponsors). A middle way can be found like remaining donetsk can be a buffer zone that multi national Un forces(European and Chinese from both sides of the conflict) can be stationed there. It will be a larger buffer zone than the remaining loc but it is still doable. That would secure water reserves for Ru controlled donetsk. Remaining donetsk has no strategic value other than water reserves that can be secured by an agreement or a buffer zone both solutions will secure the water reserves.
Frozen assets return can revive Russian economy with reduction of sanctions.
Another condition should be Ukr can be stopped having not allowing them any more fighter jets or fighter drones. Sweden plans to transfer about 100+Gripens. In near future Usa-Eu will test cheap stealth loyal wingman drones on Russian Sukhois if this situation continues.

Ukraine has disadvantage in manpower but advantage in location having proximity to Eu-nato. Ukraine can produce everything in Eu, supply energy from Eu and Russia cannot attack anywhere there. Somewhat like Vietnam war that Usa couldnt attack China-Soviet bases in proximity but an additional advantage now is that Ukraine can and does attack anywhere inside Russian mainland. So Ukraine is in a much advantageous position than Nazi Germany of ww2 which was isolated or even Vietnam-NK that were supported by Russia-China but couldnt attack Usa mainland.

However even if putin accepts this kind of a deal freezing of hostilities then zelensky will come up with something else. I dont trust both of these guys. Sorry. But now the ball is on Russias court to come up with more logical preconditions for the ceasefire.

China does not want Russia to lose because that would greatly damage China's strategic interests. I admit this is selfish.

But Russia is undoubtedly theor, not the just side. Our values have always been anti-imperialist and anti-aggressive, and we cannot go all out to help Russia because the Chinese will not agree to fight for an aggressor.

China will not recognize Russia's sovereignty over the eastern Ukrainian territories including Crimea, nor will it provide military aid to Russia. China will not help Ukraine either, let alone let Russia lose this war.

The best choice for Europeans is to get Zelensky to agree to a ceasefire as soon as possible You know, Chinese policies have always been known for their stability, and they are unlikely to change. The attempt to defeat Russia by persuading China is doomed to failure, stop trying.

 

[vizier]

China does not want Russia to lose because that would greatly damage China's strategic interests. I admit this is selfish.

But Russia is undoubtedly theor, not the just side. Our values have always been anti-imperialist and anti-aggressive, and we cannot go all out to help Russia because the Chinese will not agree to fight for an aggressor.

China will not recognize Russia's sovereignty over the eastern Ukrainian territories including Crimea, nor will it provide military aid to Russia. China will not help Ukraine either, let alone let Russia lose this war.

The best choice for Europeans is to get Zelensky to agree to a ceasefire as soon as possible You know, Chinese policies have always been known for their stability, and they are unlikely to change. The attempt to defeat Russia by persuading China is doomed to failure, stop trying.

Helping Russia not to lose the war will prolong this conflict for a long time. But the costs will get higher for Russia as well they already lost and will lose a lot more resources manpower or economical. Europe does not lose much from the prolonged conflict as long as they stay away from direct confrontation with Russia and they do that like watching a movie Ukr-Rus taking out each other. Ukraine loses manpower but they can still hold on for a very long time.

It appears to be a deadlock as long as both sides dont give compromises. The cost of this deadlock far outweighs the aim of capturing whole donetsk.
Ukr will accept no more fighter jets-fighter drones and accept a buffer zone in donetsk as ceasefire holds. Russia will give up claim on remaining Donetsk. Donetsk has no strategic value other than water reserves that can be secured by a buffer zone and a ceasefire agreement item. Someone please explain the strategic value of remaining Donetsk for Russia to prolong this conflict that a bufferzone-agreement would not solve. Symbolic value to claim all the aims of Smo are reached does not count only strategic value counts if putin thinks about his country.

 

[Viet]

It's the EU that doesn't want Russia to win, not China. China only has the ability to keep Russia from losing, but China has no to defeat NATO on the other side of the Earth. China has never stopped any ceasefire negotiations, and it is Zelensky who refuses to ceasefire.

You are wrong. It’s Putin who repeatedly refuses ceasefire without conditions, once again to meet with Trump and Zelinskki.
Xi and Putin play a different game. It’s clear China strategic interests is weakening Russia and Europe. Putin’s endgame is killing off Ukraine and Europe. You seriously mean Europe has interest to support Putin to kill off Europe? What a logic.
Nato military strength is on paper only. Assuming Russia attacks Poland tomorrow, very possible nobody comes to defend Poland. You can read the Nato articles.

 

[MH.Yang]

Helping Russia not to lose the war will prolong this conflict for a long time. But the costs will get higher for Russia as well they already lost and will lose a lot more resources manpower or economical. Europe does not lose much from the prolonged conflict as long as they stay away from direct confrontation with Russia and they do that like watching a movie Ukr-Rus taking out each other. Ukraine loses manpower but they can still hold on for a very long time.

It appears to be a deadlock as long as both sides dont give compromises. The cost of this deadlock far outweighs the aim of capturing whole donetsk.
Ukr will accept no more fighter jets-fighter drones and accept a buffer zone in donetsk as ceasefire holds. Russia will give up claim on remaining Donetsk. Donetsk has no strategic value other than water reserves that can be secured by a buffer zone and a ceasefire agreement item. Someone please explain the strategic value of remaining Donetsk for Russia to prolong this conflict that a bufferzone-agreement would not solve. Symbolic value to claim all the aims of Smo are reached does not count only strategic value counts if putin thinks about his country.

In fact, the Chinese are more understanding of the situation of the Russians. Just as the Chinese government joined the Korean War and fought against the United States hesitation in 1950, and the United States threatened to use nuclear weapons because of the Cuban missile crisis. We understand and understand why the Russians can never allow Ukraine to NATO or any hostile organization. The Ukrainian border is only 500 kilometers from Moscow, and it is all flat and has no natural defense. But that doesn't mean Russia must solve this problem by annexing Ukrainian territory.

Russia's biggest mistake was the annexation of the territory of eastern Ukraine.

In fact, we can clearly observe that the attitude of the government and Chinese people towards this war is completely different before and after the time point when Russia conducted the independence vote in eastern Ukraine. Before the referendum, the Chinese government did not ban from purchasing military supplies from China, and the Chinese people generally supported Russia. After the referendum, the Chinese government immediately regulated the export of components for medium and large drones, and Chinese people also began to stop supporting Russia.

If Russia had not conducted an independence referendum on the territory of Ukraine at the beginning, but insisted on solving the problem within the framework of's sovereignty, without annexing Ukraine's territory, and helping the people of eastern Ukraine to overthrow the rule of the Nazi government in western Ukraine under the name of volunteer. Now the Chinese government should have started military aid to Russia.

Ok. It's too late to talk about that now, we should discuss how to deal with this mess.

In our view, the best outcome now is to stop the war as soon as possible. To stop the war, the first thing is to stop the offensive, that is, the minimum needs of the Russian government need to be met. The minimum demand of the Russian government is actually strategic security, and it should be the bottom line for Russian government that Ukraine does not join NATO and militaryization is limited or monitored. The bottom line of the Ukrainian government is also strategic security. Under the premise of not being able join NATO and other organizations, only peacekeeping forces can solve the concerns of the Ukrainian people.

 

[MH.Yang]

You are wrong. It’s Putin who repeatedly refuses ceasefire without conditions, once again to meet with Trump and Zelinskki.
Xi and Putin play a different game. It’s clear China strategic interests is weakening Russia and Europe. Putin’s endgame is killing off Ukraine and Europe. You seriously mean Europe has interest to support Putin to kill off Europe? What a logic.
Nato military strength is on paper only. Assuming Russia attacks Poland tomorrow, very possible nobody comes to defend Poland. You can read the Nato articles.

China is a maritime power, and its strategic focus is on the Western Pacific and the Indian Ocean. China is not foolish enough to compete with the EU&Russia and for the Eastern European plains.

We would be grateful to the EU and Russia if they could maintain peace and not disturb the safety and stability of several Central European railways and trade.

 

[Viet]

China is a maritime power, and its strategic focus is on the Western Pacific and the Indian Ocean. China is not foolish enough to compete with the EU&Russia and for the Eastern European plains.

We would be grateful to the EU and Russia if they could maintain peace and not disturb the safety and stability of several Central European railways and trade.

Can you make peace with Hitler? Peace with Russia under Putin is not possible. That’s the finding in Europe.
The germans and the rest of Europe are interested of cheap oil, cheap gas from Russia, nothing else. Nobody wants war.

 

[vizier]

In fact, the Chinese are more understanding of the situation of the Russians. Just as the Chinese government joined the Korean War and fought against the United States hesitation in 1950, and the United States threatened to use nuclear weapons because of the Cuban missile crisis. We understand and understand why the Russians can never allow Ukraine to NATO or any hostile organization. The Ukrainian border is only 500 kilometers from Moscow, and it is all flat and has no natural defense. But that doesn't mean Russia must solve this problem by annexing Ukrainian territory.

Russia's biggest mistake was the annexation of the territory of eastern Ukraine.

In fact, we can clearly observe that the attitude of the government and Chinese people towards this war is completely different before and after the time point when Russia conducted the independence vote in eastern Ukraine. Before the referendum, the Chinese government did not ban from purchasing military supplies from China, and the Chinese people generally supported Russia. After the referendum, the Chinese government immediately regulated the export of components for medium and large drones, and Chinese people also began to stop supporting Russia.

If Russia had not conducted an independence referendum on the territory of Ukraine at the beginning, but insisted on solving the problem within the framework of's sovereignty, without annexing Ukraine's territory, and helping the people of eastern Ukraine to overthrow the rule of the Nazi government in western Ukraine under the name of volunteer. Now the Chinese government should have started military aid to Russia.

Ok. It's too late to talk about that now, we should discuss how to deal with this mess.

In our view, the best outcome now is to stop the war as soon as possible. To stop the war, the first thing is to stop the offensive, that is, the minimum needs of the Russian government need to be met. The minimum demand of the Russian government is actually strategic security, and it should be the bottom line for Russian government that Ukraine does not join NATO and militaryization is limited or monitored. The bottom line of the Ukrainian government is also strategic security. Under the premise of not being able join NATO and other organizations, only peacekeeping forces can solve the concerns of the Ukrainian people.

In current status quo ceasefire guarantees that Ukraine cannot join nato because of annexation and it is not a peace agreement. It does not stop hostilities. Nato accepting Ukraine would mean direct involvement into the conflict so it wont happen there is no further agreement needed after the ceasefire. If Ukraine gives up all territories to Russia then they can theoretically join nato but it is not a possible option for them. Demanding official agreement for no-nato from Ukraine will prolong the conflict unnecessarily. Finland,Sweden,Estonia is closer to Moscow as well they are already in nato.

So minimum security needs like limitation of fighter aircraft-drones to Ukraine , nuclear weapons control are enough as ceasefire automatically ensures no nato membership for Ukraine. Capturing donetsk is not a necessary item and has no strategical value for Russia.

 

[MH.Yang]

In current status quo ceasefire guarantees that Ukraine cannot join nato because of annexation and it is not a peace agreement. It does not stop hostilities. Nato accepting Ukraine would mean direct involvement into the conflict so it wont happen there is no further agreement needed after the ceasefire. If Ukraine gives up all territories to Russia then they can theoretically join nato but it is not a possible option for them. Demanding official agreement for no-nato from Ukraine will prolong the conflict unnecessarily. Finland,Sweden,Estonia is closer to Moscow as well they are already in nato.

So minimum security needs like limitation of fighter aircraft-drones to Ukraine , nuclear weapons control are enough as ceasefire automatically ensures no nato membership for Ukraine. Capturing donetsk is not a necessary item and has no strategical value for Russia.

I can only talk about my personal views.

In my opinion, the most important thing about the ceasefire agreement is to guarantee the most basic strategic security for both sides. As long as one side feels unsafe, then this can only be a temporary ceasefire agreement. Therefore, Ukraine's non-membership in NATO, limited and supervised military equipment, etc., are all necessary clauses. Secondly, China and the United States should set up a joint peacekeeping force to be deployed on the border, and sign to guarantee the peace agreement. This should be a security guarantee that the Ukrainian government can accept. Third, the ceasefire should be based on the actual control of the territory. Fourth, Russia should give Ukraine certain economic compensation.