Sea Sultan Long-Range MPA | Updates & Discussion

[SteppeWolff]

@SteppeWolff why you avoiding us lol

Bruh Im sad yall would even say that. Imme be back in our server soon

 

[Colt_Six_Nine]

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On the topic of PM Shehbaz using Sea Sultan, I came across this post from May 2026 on his visit to Quetta.

 

[Par 5]

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On the topic of PM Shehbaz using Sea Sultan, I came across this post from May 2026 on his visit to Quetta.

Yes this was a test run for the Lineage 1000 as a courtesy by PN to PMO. Shahbaz liked the aircraft and gave the clearance to include it in the PMO aircraft pool. The Lineage was also used on Shahbaz's recent trip to Saudi Arabia with the aircraft symbology changed to reflect its new role

 

[Yasser76]

Yes this was a test run for the Lineage 1000 as a courtesy by PN to PMO. Shahbaz liked the aircraft and gave the clearance to include it in the PMO aircraft pool. The Lineage was also used on Shahbaz's recent trip to Saudi Arabia with the aircraft symbology changed to reflect its new role

Sorry, this is utter BS. PM will not dictate what specific type of VIP aircraft or clear anything. This time I am happy to give credentials on this as I can specifically name my relative who was CPO at Chaklala in charge of VIP movements.

You do not know what you are talking about, Sharif will not have a say, and actually has flow on many VIP aircraft, some not even Pakistani.

I would now ask for a source but guess "Trust me bro" will do again right?

 

[kimjongun]

Sorry, this is utter BS. PM will not dictate what specific type of VIP aircraft or clear anything. This time I am happy to give credentials on this as I can specifically name my relative who was CPO at Chaklala in charge of VIP movements.

You do not know what you are talking about, Sharif will not have a say, and actually has flow on many VIP aircraft, some not even Pakistani.

I would now ask for a source but guess "Trust me bro" will do again right?

arent you the same guy who said that @Par 5 got to know about things from his relative so he did not have credibility?? lols

 

[Yasser76]

arent you the same guy who said that @Par 5 got to know about things from his relative so he did not have credibility?? lols

Yup, so I am saying I can name names. Happy to, he cannot. Big difference, and I can happily share and said relative is retired. @Par 5 will forever be "Trust me bro".

 

[shark46]

Yup, so I am saying I can name names. Happy to, he cannot. Big difference, and I can happily share and said relative is retired. @Par 5 will forever be "Trust me bro".

being able to name your relative doesnt really change anything tho

like alright you can name the guy what does that prove about what par 5 said

your relative couldve been involved in VIP movements and par 5 could still be right about this specific aircraft

youre treating "my source has a job title" as if thats evidence for every claim that comes out of his mouth

also saying "PM will not dictate what specific type of VIP aircraft" is a bit of a weird strawman because nobody said he personally decides the aircraft roster himself

the actual claim is that the aircraft was tested for PMO use and then included in the pool

if you know thats false then say what actually happened to the aircraft and why the claim is wrong instead of arguing about who has the more impressive relative lol

 

[Quwa]

SAAB-2000 is classified as a military aircraft and saab has approved spare-parts and maintenance for this military aircraft . Even the SAAB PAF repaired, majority of spare-parts came from Sweden, isnt it?

Par5 when he says Sea-Sultan is facing spare part issue. It is due to a screw up of PN, which has taken a commercial airplane and made it into military aircraft without approval of Embrarer. God-forbid if bird strike happens, who is going to repair the plane and certify it's airworthiness?

Bombardier was relatively better at allowing off-market customization work on the Global Express series. In fact, I think that was one of the options presented to the PN for the LRMPA, but it lacked the payload capacity. That said, in 2023, a Canadian firm by the name of PAL Aerospace proposed a major modification (very similar to what the PN intends for the Sea Sultan) to increase payload (via under-fuselage bay).

It's unfortunate that the PAF, PN, and PA didn't standardize on one platform from the onset and pool a bigger order together. I'm sure that between them and their current and future special mission aircraft needs, they'd need around 20 aircraft in total. And besides working directly with the OEM to purchase and modify the aircraft, there was also the avenue of setting up an official, licensed MRO line that would service them and, eventually, carry out modification work domestically.

 

[Yasser76]

Bombardier was relatively better at allowing off-market customization work on the Global Express series. In fact, I think that was one of the options presented to the PN for the LRMPA, but it lacked the payload capacity. That said, in 2023, a Canadian firm by the name of PAL Aerospace proposed a major modification (very similar to what the PN intends for the Sea Sultan) to increase payload (via under-fuselage bay).

It's unfortunate that the PAF, PN, and PA didn't standardize on one platform from the onset and pool a bigger order together. I'm sure that between them and their current and future special mission aircraft needs, they'd need around 20 aircraft in total. And besides working directly with the OEM to purchase and modify the aircraft, there was also the avenue of setting up an official, licensed MRO line that would service them and, eventually, carry out modification work domestically.

I guess timelines were always going to be out of sync, but yeah, for instance Dassault 20 EW replacement (Turkish Hava SOJ on Global 6000) could have been a good idea and maybe PN could have adopted Erieye instead of ATR.

What I would say though is when it comes to economies of scale and standardisation these may give less incremental savings then many think. The engine is the main bit (spares and training engineers) but many of these small modern commercial turbprop and jet airliners are designed so civilian pilots can comfortably cross over, and spares for ones that are in mainstream mass service are not the same issue as say flying two fighters from different countries. Many of the subsystems are complex and here i think the services have tried to standardise as much as possible

Star Safire FLIR used by PN/PA/PAF
Use of Seaspray radar in a few PN platforms
Common engines with some platforms

Ultimately though it may come down to too much time, money and effort. Turks had a massive fleet of CN-235s yet went for ATR for MPA, we probably did for the same reasons.

 

[shark46]

I guess timelines were always going to be out of sync, but yeah, for instance Dassault 20 EW replacement (Turkish Hava SOJ on Global 6000) could have been a good idea and maybe PN could have adopted Erieye instead of ATR.

What I would say though is when it comes to economies of scale and standardisation these may give less incremental savings then many think. The engine is the main bit (spares and training engineers) but many of these small modern commercial turbprop and jet airliners are designed so civilian pilots can comfortably cross over, and spares for ones that are in mainstream mass service are not the same issue as say flying two fighters from different countries. Many of the subsystems are complex and here i think the services have tried to standardise as much as possible

Star Safire FLIR used by PN/PA/PAF
Use of Seaspray radar in a few PN platforms
Common engines with some platforms

Ultimately though it may come down to too much time, money and effort. Turks had a massive fleet of CN-235s yet went for ATR for MPA, we probably did for the same reasons.

i think youre probably understating the logistics side a bit though because its not just engines and pilot conversion its having separate supply chains tooling maintenance procedures training and technical support for every different airframe and then youre also dealing with relatively small fleets for these special mission platforms


sure the subsystems can be common but that doesnt really solve the airframe level support issue and thats exactly where having 15 20 aircraft across the services on the same platform could start making a pretty big difference


the turkey example also kinda proves the point that they chose ATR despite having CN235s for their own reasons but that doesnt mean it was necessarily the better choice from a standardisation perspective

 

[BlueMarlin]

it is a bit of a strange choice, with little airframes and no appetite to convert the 190's. lets see how this pan's out

 

[Quwa]

it is a bit of a strange choice, with little airframes and no appetite to convert the 190's. lets see how this pan's out

There could be a way to salvage the relationship with Embraer by bringing PIA into the mix, maybe a big regional airliner order?

 

[Colt_Six_Nine]

There could be a way to salvage the relationship with Embraer by bringing PIA into the mix, maybe a big regional airliner order?

Seems unlikely with Embraer forming deeper relationships with India and PIA already having A320 fleet for shorter distance flights.

Internet suggests a 15 - 20 A320 PIA fleet. Internet also suggests 65% - 75% of Pakistani travelers being international rather than domestic.

+ pilot type ratings, maintenance infrastructure, logistics etc.

I'm not sure how Embraer's product offerings can fit here.

 

[BlueMarlin]

There could be a way to salvage the relationship with Embraer by bringing PIA into the mix, maybe a big regional airliner order?

bad idea the latest variant they offer is the e2-190 and the pw gtf engines are the worst, and are known to bringing down airlines due the shear amount of aircraft being grounded due to excessive wear on the engines. example being goair, spirit airlines and indigo took a hit too.

even eygpt air sold the a220 series they had after a few years, as the engines struggled in the heat and sandy enviroments.

they say they will fix this for 2027 but who knows, they are more efficient than the cfm leap.

the kc390 is too expensive and not aligned to the assumed plan of y-30 replacing the c130 's

it would be wiser to bring them in and empty and your pockets.

 

[Oscar]

There could be a way to salvage the relationship with Embraer by bringing PIA into the mix, maybe a big regional airliner order?

Seems unlikely with Embraer forming deeper relationships with India and PIA already having A320 fleet for shorter distance flights.

Internet suggests a 15 - 20 A320 PIA fleet. Internet also suggests 65% - 75% of Pakistani travelers being international rather than domestic.

+ pilot type ratings, maintenance infrastructure, logistics etc.

I'm not sure how Embraer's product offerings can fit here.

There’s enough of a global E-Jet support ecosystem to keep Embraer support on the quiet side and not compete with Adani's interests. The bigger issue is actually getting a direct PIA order which could be problematic but nothing prevents PIA from getting E-jets for its needs.

The issue is PIA being tied into its 777(switching to 787 potentially) + 320 due to the traffic mix and wet-lease lock ins.