8 Pakistan Air Force Officers Awarded Sitara =e-Jurat Medals

[Mrc]

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[Oscar]

We have a (bad) culture of face saving, rather than nation saving, we hide the facts rather than learning from them, until and unless we become self-critical with the purpose of learning from mistakes and not repeating them, until then we will not grow as a country/nation. Unfortunately we are still doing the same. We have a habit of doubling down on our mistakes/blunders rather than taking a step back and thinking/fixing the issue.

Case in point, wrongful removal of IK government, false allegations, false cases, wrong decisions by kangaroo courts and unjust imprisonment.

Pakistan had lessons -
Hamood ur Rehman commission / wiped from history in terms of managing various ethnicites.

A critical report was prepared on the Kargil ops and failure - Musharraf buddies buried it The PAF applied lessons but PA seemed to totally dismiss it.

Early ops in Bajaur, Waziristan were given critical overlook over complete ignorance of COIN ops - some lessons were applied but none of those who went in with little understanding were ever held accountable.

I wont go as far to say lessons are not applied - they are by the competent and there are many in and out of uniform.
But both lessons and accountability are completely ignored if they were the fault of someone at the top or accountability is taken of the wrong individuals.

The saving grace against India is that they also undertake this and combine it with poor decision making procesd at all levels.

I maintain - India is solely responsible for their fiasco against PAF. The PAF did everything by their book and it isn’t some revolutionary extraordinary book.

But to state “we had incorrect intelligence on PL-15 range” is CRIMINAL negligence because if they even bothered to look at this forum they would have erred on the side of caution. Unfortunately true PL-15 range and availability was provided very early on after Swift retort by certain connected members and even I hinted at that by my own ignorance of opsec in trying to push against Meteor.

And there are elements I know from IP(because duffers are everywhere) of individuals logging in from locations where Indian bases are - they likely read it and dismissed it once they saw Pl-15E’s “official” 145km.

Because that is their messed up mindset to prepare for superiority and PAFs better approach for plan for the worst case scenario that gets IAF beaten.

If they change that mentality - بھونڈ مار سکتے ہیں وہ آپ کی


Because if their attacks at bases didn’t drive the point home yet - they can pretty quickly poke holes and then pepper your weak AD by sheer saturation.

 

[Oscar]

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Lol
And they all spell their names “Muhammad”
After all no one in Pakistan ever spells Mohammed, Mohd, Mohammad , Ahmed or otherwise.

They were better off just putting shabbir everywhere because at least in every mess and officers club there is always a Shabbir.
Ive actually tried it in PAF Peshawar - couldn’t get anyone to come so just said “اوئے شبیر” and got a “جی سر “

 

[PK781]

kaun banega karor-TATTI should be the indian show!!

anyone knows why alan warnes only mentioned 1 s400? and not both
whats this guy upto? Did he forget how to use X all of a sudden or he on some other agenda all of a sudden? did money change hands?

 

[airhead]

You are an interesting chap

Joined

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First post

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Huh? My wife will disagree

 

[airhead]

Since you are always questioning any detail while also claiming that your father is in PAF then why don't you ask your him .

He is dead ..that is why? Dude take a chill pill. I was asking g if any additional wreckage pics or sat images were shared otherwise any claim is speculative right or am I wrong? I only believe in facts not claims opinions no matter who is offering it. I have seen facts to know that 4-6 Iaf planes were lost but no facts to support Iaf claims of Paf planes downed. I have facts to see that Brahmos did some superficial damage to bholari and chaklala but no facts to support any fateh damage to Indian airfields except a minor hit at udhampur. No facts to conclude any s400 destroyed although a driver killed is suspicious but still no proof of a destruction. Facts and proofs are what will determine reality perception.

 

[Oscar]

He is dead ..that is why? Dude take a chill pill. I was asking g if any additional wreckage pics or sat images were shared otherwise any claim is speculative right or am I wrong? I only believe in facts not claims opinions no matter who is offering it. I have seen facts to know that 4-6 Iaf planes were lost but no facts to support Iaf claims of Paf planes downed. I have facts to see that Brahmos did some superficial damage to bholari and chaklala but no facts to support any fateh damage to Indian airfields except a minor hit at udhampur. No facts to conclude any s400 destroyed although a driver killed is suspicious but still no proof of a destruction. Facts and proofs are what will determine reality perception.

Bholari wasnt superficial
Jacobabad a part of Hangar roof collapsed but it was completely empty.
Everything else was superficial or even a case of stray systems.

S-400 is reportedly based on two aspects.
First is that once the CM-400 was launched the radar emissions were on until the missile countdown finished and then the Cheeseboard at Adampur never came online again(and reportedly STILL hasn’t).
Second is the individual lost.
Third is humint.

It is also possible that system was not damaged but proximity of strike caused them to relocate it to their rather well prepared dispersal sites but since the system never came back online for the duration of BuM and PaF sent UaVs and opened up a rather “stroll in the park” corridor to Dehli Airspace means even if it survived the threat was neutralized. At that point those might as well be paperweights much like the Rafale’s have been taken out for a full rework of tactics and updates to threat library.

If anything the grapevine is the French want to CHARGE India for more current updated and its causing a dispute - take it with salt.

However, the Israelis have been very open and their supplied systems on Mkis, Mig-29s and some local Indian systems have been fully updated with gathered EW data and so they’re the ones currently doing the front line flying.

 

[airhead]

He is dead ..that is why? Dude take a chill pill. I was asking g if any additional wreckage pics or sat images were shared otherwise any claim is speculative right or am I wrong

Bholari wasnt superficial
Jacobabad a part of Hangar roof collapsed but it was completely empty.
Everything else was superficial or even a case of stray systems.

S-400 is reportedly based on two aspects.
First is that once the CM-400 was launched the radar emissions were on until the missile countdown finished and then the Cheeseboard at Adampur never came online again(and reportedly STILL hasn’t).
Second is the individual lost.
Third is humint.

It is also possible that system was not damaged but proximity of strike caused them to relocate it to their rather well prepared dispersal sites but since the system never came back online for the duration of BuM and PaF sent UaVs and opened up a rather “stroll in the park” corridor to Dehli Airspace means even if it survived the threat was neutralized. At that point those might as well be paperweights much like the Rafale’s have been taken out for a full rework of tactics and updates to threat library.

If anything the grapevine is the French want to CHARGE India for more current updated and its causing a dispute - take it with salt.

However, the Israelis have been very open and their supplied systems on Mkis, Mig-29s and some local Indian systems have been fully updated with gathered EW data and so they’re the ones currently doing the front line flying.

Ok but this is no proof. This is the same thing as the Indians claimed for the f16 in 2019 when they showed the radar signatures of the f16 stating that the signature disappeared and never showed up again so yes we destroyed it ..no thst is stupid . We know that probably the f16 hit the deck, went tree top below Indian radar systems all the way to sargodha.

Similarly here we cannot claim that s400 destroyed but yes they may have stopped using it for the remainder of the war so yes a heavy paper weight but still available to fight another day so you cannot keep giving medals for unconfirmed kills which makes us look like fools and we lose credibility. The su30 claim in 2019 was the same stupidity and then giving a tbt to Hassan siddiqui…just makes us look petty just like the Indians

 

[Raider 21]

One squadron, One mission! an entire air force brought to its knees. No. 15 Squadron’s six blazing kills in a single sortie sealed a chapter of glory forever in Pakistan’s air combat history.

But destroyed by the corrupt who medaled them and insulted them infront of whole world

It might be two missions…..5 on the first day……1 on another day….

 

[ThoroughPro]

Ok but this is no proof. This is the same thing as the Indians claimed for the f16 in 2019 when they showed the radar signatures of the f16 stating that the signature disappeared and never showed up again so yes we destroyed it ..no thst is stupid . We know that probably the f16 hit the deck, went tree top below Indian radar systems all the way to sargodha.

Similarly here we cannot claim that s400 destroyed but yes they may have stopped using it for the remainder of the war so yes a heavy paper weight but still available to fight another day so you cannot keep giving medals for unconfirmed kills which makes us look like fools and we lose credibility. The su30 claim in 2019 was the same stupidity and then giving a tbt to Hassan siddiqui…just makes us look petty just like the Indians

Dude you sure you are using the right flags? We have all heard about and can identify subversion tactics. @Yasser76

 

[airhead]

Dude you sure you are using the right flags? We have all heard about and can identify subversion tactics. @Yasser76

??? What do you mean? I am Indian ? Dude..why can’t a Pakistani criticize our govt when they do something stupid..like give awards without proof . So you are saying that you become an indian if you question claims made by our govt ?

 

[ThoroughPro]

??? What do you mean? I am Indian ? Dude..why can’t a Pakistani criticize our govt when they do something stupid..like give awards without proof . So you are saying that you become an indian if you question claims made by our govt ?

please stay with me on this thread for a minute, which city were you born in

 

[airhead]

Pindi

please stay with me on this thread for a minute, which city were you born in

Born in pindi

 

[ThoroughPro]

Pindi

Born in pindi

what is the 6 digit first block of your CNIC

 

[Raider 21]

??? What do you mean? I am Indian ? Dude..why can’t a Pakistani criticize our govt when they do something stupid..like give awards without proof . So you are saying that you become an indian if you question claims made by our govt ?

PAF doesn’t award their pilots especially SJs generally without verifying kills properly. I am also a PAF brat, and they aren’t all powerful mighty as they appear to many on this forum……..criticise them all you want, doesn’t take away what they did was very professional to the point that a lot of foreign military air arms are assessing what would happen if they ever faced combat against anyone that operates AWACS, datalink and BVR.

One PAF pilot put it simply as “…we are a reactionary force, but the first war we lose, Pakistan will cease to exist….”

Be critcal as you want, nothing harmful about it….PAF will always perform well most of the time. Cannot say the say about the rest of Pakistan’s armed forces…just not familiar well with them…