A diminished India

[Alter_Ego]

Countries and/or interest groups die for friendship of USA



There are a lot of sour grapes against America from Pakistanis. If America offered a strategic partnership to Pakistan your elite would be dancing naked in the street

Sure…America have a attractive culture and can offer a lot to many countries.

Am not a pakistani… you missed that one. Dont let my comments get into your head in negative way…

 

[AjayGhatak]

I am going to empty bowel and go to sleep. I will reply in the morning or afternoon maybe.

You don't quite understand.

Rich Gujaratis and Marwadis don't want to develop their backwards region. If they were so charitable, Marwad, Kutch and Saurashtra wouldn't be so backwards.

They want their brothers to move out of their home region and take over other states. Thats their sinister plan. Gujarati and Marwadis are a tiny minority in other states yet they have all local politicians in their pockets.

You see Js had pay for their crimes. But these parasites were never punished. That's a tragedy. They lots of bloods on their hands.

In India no one can develop a god damned region. If they try to acquire land and build a township, 100000s of "farmers", "tribals", PETA-types-crying-for-turtles show up at their doorstep and challenge them in court. Meaning the matter will not go anywhere for another 100 years. So they do what is the most prudent thing, that is scale out elsewhere. Nothing wrong in it.

Corruption is how business is done in India. Government pays bribe to voters during election. Voters pay bribe to government official. Traders take their cut by price gouging and round goes the world.

Jains etc ie the business community is thriving by adopting to this situation. They pay their dues (in white and black) and keep their business running.

Try setting up a business in India and you will know.

 

[Nilgiri]

Joe I know about you. Not so much about our Pakistani friend. I try to put myself in your shoes ask myself, would I be such a formidably unapproachable elitist khadoos for my (much) younger compatriots. The answer I do not have, blessed as I am not by clairvoyance.

But I have kids at home the age of a lot of these guys. And then I realise we have been at it (this forum game) for over 15 years now.

Multiple generations have come and gone Joe. But "maybe" you engage with all of them as the ones we first met, and are exasperated by having to repeat the same things, what you and I call basics, fundamentals, again.

Problem is Joe, and @Guru Dutt agrees with me, having similarly aged kids at home and his social circle, this present generation is both immensely intelligent, and equally immensely blinkered dolts. They NEED to be schooled. And if not us, then someone else will step in and do what they feel needs to be taught.

This is how the Hindu right grew under our noses and we were too busy rescuing India, growing India, riching (is it a word?) India, to notice. Or consider it a threat more than a peripheral irritant.

The last 10 years, in fact the last 30-40 years, is an immense lesson to us, or where both our generations fell short. Let our guard down. And ceded the public perception and information space to rhe Sangh ecosystem.

We need to grab that back. I realize it. Rahul realizes it.

Please realize it.

Just by being a friendly dad, without indoctrinating them with my own world view, I have seen my kids change. From Oh hes a druggie na? To the frank admiration them and their friends have for him and the disgust they feel for La Ecosystem. This happened unknown to me, and was a happy unexpected surprise. Busy as I was with my own work, my own fight.

@Nilgiri

Cheers, Doc

Process always starts at home and those closest to you for sure...then extended family, and friends you have good trust relationship with etc. Consider other reply I made to you.

When you say sangh ecosystem, this itself transplanted into earlier existing one of social chauvinism (specifically its scale/depth between Delhi and Kolkata....or more broadly between Peshawar and Chittagong).....the needs/voids regarding this.

I know the layers pretty well, as my family has always been very political.

On my mom's side, her father (my grandfather) kept portraits of Gandhi everywhere in house....archway to main living room I remember it still (the house is long gone now)....had the Gandhi and Nehru portrait (famous picture) they are sharing a lighter moment etc. Staunch congress loyalist all through his life.

On other side of family, my dad's mother was quite against congress (she had her valid reasons...but also flawed ones), much more jan sangh supportive....to the extent she would support anyone and everyone that was against congress (like VP Singh, whom my dad "famously" as far as our family memory is concerned.... got into argument with her about as my dad disliked VP Singh heavily).

Their (grandparents) clashes were legendary (as described to me, since I was not born or too small at the time etc) given obv my dad and mom got married etc.

Now both are very good honourable complicated people....I miss both dearly. But really it is record of their interactions and debate/response my extended family has had during and after relative to politics as it coursed and has since coursed....that make the bedrock of my understanding of what social conservatism is in India's context....that too from a south Indian prism first.

Without changing the very nature of that social conservatism to large enough degree (even with its piecemeal reform in the south compared to north which stays at more stagnant version of it)..... you are going to find the politics downstream to this always suffers the problem and always will play a game of distraction (wanting you to try micromanage the politics at cost to what produces it in first place).

You have to know what is good and what is bad....and why people can metaphysically package bad things as good things (and vice versa).....or put such things in "grey" and be apathetic to it in sufficient amount. Then how to work with what you have in changing to degree you can what you can with people among you that matter to you regarding this. There is no other (especially moral) way....there are no shortcuts. India and any other society/country has to put in hard work here.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Not all of them are like that.

The vast majority may be like that. We need not put a number to this 'vast', as our prejudices are enough to take over our thinking. That makes us nothing more nor less than a Sanghi, and his/her prejudices against Muslims, for similar inchoate reasons.

Do you really want to go down that route?

I shall watch with clinical detachment.

Wrt to Gandhi, it's documented that he was a racist, casteist and a cruel husband. There also rumours that he was a pedophile.

In what way does that, assuming for a moment that it is all true, affect the quality of his leadership and his political role? You are using these to start a road-side slanging match, and not to round off a legitimate socio-political analysis. That is aberrant behaviour.

What the difference between Modi andhbhakts and Gandhi andhbhakts?

None.

That is why it is 'critically' important to retain a detachment from the issues, and to have an understanding of nuances.

If there are political profiles that defeat a critical analysis, both the Communists and the Sanghis are too far gone to display any counter-balancing virtues.

 

[MastanKhan]

But he does have a point about your tax dollars being used to hurt your country of origin.

Unless you believe that the US has always had Pakistan's best interest at heart these past 25 years.

Hi,

A national leader has to learn to do "a song and dance"---.

IK's first job was to be a leader of the pakistani people---.

In his Oxfordian arrogance he thought he was the leader of the muslim world---he could not comprehend that he had first to become the leader of the pakistani nation---.

 

[MastanKhan]

Can you say how he got entrapped

For all his qualities as a man, he sure has a lack of judgement with long term partners he chooses

Hi,

He is an old man---single person---divorced after a short marriage---.

His wife is the leader of a female group that entraps wealthy men.

His wife and her friend Princess Gogi rented a house close to IK's house in islamabad---and from there the entrapment star.

Usman Buzdar's wife was also a part of the female group---.

 

[nahtanbob]

Hi,

He is an old man---single person---divorced after a short marriage---.

His wife is the leader of a female group that entraps wealthy men.

His wife and her friend Princess Gogi rented a house close to IK's house in islamabad---and from there the entrapment star.

Usman Buzdar's wife was also a part of the female group---.

If you cannot avoid gold diggers it says a lot about your personal judgement

 

[Sharma Ji]

If you cannot avoid gold diggers it says a lot about your personal judgement

He been a player all his life, found spirituality later but wahan bhi trapped in front ho gaya by a "spiritual" peerni lady.

Lesson for all men: keep it reigned in, and in your pants.

Those who live by the sword... etc

@Lulldapull @Sainthood 2.0 @vsdoc @Mrloveday ..wdy guys think ?

 

[vsdoc]

He been a player all his life, found spirituality later but wahan bhi trapped in front ho gaya by a "spiritual" peerni lady.

Lesson for all men: keep it reigned in, and in your pants.

Those who live by the sword... etc

@Lulldapull @Sainthood 2.0 @vsdoc @Mrloveday ..wdy guys think ?

I have no nasty comments to make about any man and wife. Or be judgmental in any way.

Once you are married, you know the realities and what it takes. It takes work, like any human relationship.

Only "unfriending" is neither easy nor clean. Especially when you have kids. The kids are always half of him or her. That never goes away.

I think its pretty classless to talk smack about other couples. Apna dekho.

 

[vsdoc]

Btw @Sharma Ji nice to see you posting in non members area even while being shackled.

The chosen one.

 

[Sharma Ji]

I have no nasty comments to make about any man and wife. Or be judgmental in any way.

Once you are married, you know the realities and what it takes. It takes work, like any human relationship.

Only "unfriending" is neither easy nor clean. Especially when you have kids. The kids are always half of him or her. That never goes away.

I think its pretty classless to talk smack about other couples. Apna dekho.

He's a public figure and a former leader of a nuclear power.. and as such, doesn't enjoy the same privileges I'd ordinarily afford my neighbors, friends and family etc.

When it comes to women, he's been pretty Trumpian, LOTS has been written about him (since before I was even an adult)

Btw @Sharma Ji nice to see you posting in non members area even while being shackled.

The chosen one.

They've seemingly loosened them some. My thanks to whoever did so.

 

[Mrloveday]

The vast majority may be like that. We need not put a number to this 'vast', as our prejudices are enough to take over our thinking. That makes us nothing more nor less than a Sanghi, and his/her prejudices against Muslims, for similar inchoate reasons.

Do you really want to go down that route?

I shall watch with clinical detachment.

Yes Sir. I have zero sympathy for these people. They are responsible for all of India's problems. They are getting worse day by day.

In what way does that, assuming for a moment that it is all true, affect the quality of his leadership and his political role? You are using these to start a road-side slanging match, and not to round off a legitimate socio-political analysis. That is aberrant behaviour.

I don't think he freed India.

None.

That is why it is 'critically' important to retain a detachment from the issues, and to have an understanding of nuances.

If there are political profiles that defeat a critical analysis, both the Communists and the Sanghis are too far gone to display any counter-balancing virtues.

So you are a centrist with a soft spot for Congress?

Btw do you know that communist party of Bengal joined hands with BJP to defeat TMC? Not a fan of any party.

Communists of Bengal favoured Jain Marwadis.


I just don't understand. When it comes to Jain, Gujarati, Marwadi all parties are the same. Left, right, centre or National or regional don't matter

 

[vsdoc]

He's a public figure and a former leader of a nuclear power.. and as such, doesn't enjoy the same privileges I'd ordinarily afford my neighbors, friends and family etc.

When it comes to women, he's been pretty Trumpian, LOTS has been written about him (since before I was even an adult)

Public figure does not mean you get into his personal life.

 

[Mrloveday]

In India no one can develop a god damned region. If they try to acquire land and build a township, 100000s of "farmers", "tribals", PETA-types-crying-for-turtles show up at their doorstep and challenge them in court. Meaning the matter will not go anywhere for another 100 years. So they do what is the most prudent thing, that is scale out elsewhere. Nothing wrong in it.

Corruption is how business is done in India. Government pays bribe to voters during election. Voters pay bribe to government official. Traders take their cut by price gouging and round goes the world.

Jains etc ie the business community is thriving by adopting to this situation. They pay their dues (in white and black) and keep their business running.

Try setting up a business in India and you will know.

I own a business in India.

No one will oppose if you build a school or a hospital. Or you build a factory which doesn't harm the environment. Every area is not a tribal area. And Marwad and Gujarat are not Bengal or Kerala. Different mindset.

Jain Gurus who have renounced material life are billionaires. They are in money laundering biz too. One I personally know he invests his black money in construction business.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I don't think he freed India.

Of course he didn't.