Agnipath context: Border forces may recruit Agniveers, send them to Army, and take them back

[vikNerv]

In my (largely uninformed) opinion, while Agniveer is a good plan, given the socio economic changes it will bring to the economy and society at large (cutting down a large workforce and the pensions), this should have been implemented in many phases over atleast 15 20 years time frame. To give society and economy time to adjust to this change and allow the otherwise large number of would be solders to find new avenues of employment.

Good plan, poorly thought out execution.

 

[JaneBhiDoYaaron]

In my (largely uninformed) opinion, while Agniveer is a good plan, given the socio economic changes it will bring to the economy and society at large (cutting down a large workforce and the pensions), this should have been implemented in many phases over atleast 15 20 years time frame. To give society and economy time to adjust to this change and allow the otherwise large number of would be solders to find new avenues of employment.

Good plan, poorly thought out execution.

Long-term implementation and dates always become nuisance like reservation. What Ambedkar thought temporary provision now has become permanent fixture and nuisance.

 

[vikNerv]

Long-term implementation and dates always become nuisance like reservation. What Ambedkar thought temporary provision now has become permanent fixture and nuisance.

I only pointed out at the flaws, I have no solution to these flaws, that's why I am neither a bureaucrat nor an elected leader. I am just an arm chair admiral.

 

[Bagheera0084]

Congress widens scope of its attack on Agnipath scheme, spotlights Agniveer suicides

On Wednesday, Rahul put out a video -- contesting Rajnath Singh’s claim that Agniveers killed in action are given Rs 1 crore as compensation -- with a recording of Ajay’s father saying he had not received any money from the government

Our Bureau
New Delhi | Published 05.07.24, 04:55 AM

The Congress on Thursday questioned the Agniveers’ combat preparedness and alleged a “high incidence of suicides” among them, widening the scope of its attack on the Agnipath scheme a day after the army countered Rahul Gandhi’s contention on compensation to the family of an Agniveer killed in action.

Col Rohit Chaudhary (retd), chairman of the Congress’s ex-servicemen department, was fielded to challenge defence minister Rajnath Singh’s “half-truths” in Parliament that he said had created “confusion”.

The issue relates not just to Ajay Kumar — who died in a landmine blast in Jammu and Kashmir in January — but to all the 13 Agniveers who had died since the scheme became operational in June last year, Chaudhary said.

Having met Ajay’s parents while electioneering in Punjab, Rahul has often spoken about him. He mentioned the slain Agniveer in Parliament earlier this week while intervening as leader of the Opposition in the discussion on the motion of thanks to the President’s address.

Rahul quoted the family as saying it had not received any compensation from the government. This prompted Rajnath to clarify that Agniveers killed in action are given Rs 1 crore as compensation.

On Wednesday, Rahul put out a video contesting this with a recording of Ajay’s father saying he had not received any money from the government.

Late on Wednesday night, the army put up a post on X saying: “Of the total amount due, family of Agniveer Ajay has already been paid ₹98.39 lakhs. Ex-Gratia and other benefits amounting to approximately 67 lakhs, as applicable according to the provisions of the Agniveer Scheme, will be paid on Final Account Settlement shortly post due Police verification. The total amount will be ₹1.65 Cr approximately.”

It added: “It is re-emphasised that emoluments due to a fallen hero are paid expeditiously to the Next of Kin of departed soldiers, including Agniveers.”

Referring to the army statement, a veteran — Colonel Amit Kumar (retd) — said in a post on X: “Was expecting this kind of gesture under political pressure. But reminding the statement made by @rajnathsingh categorically stated 1 crore is given by the Govt to the Agniveer. Insurance money is ₹48 lakh and (does) not come under the definition of awards or rewards….”

Asked if the army was lying, Chaudhary replied that the family was not very clear about the compensation due to it. “The army should tell families — often unlettered — what is their due and where all the money will come from,” he said.

“When we checked, we learnt that ₹1 crore has come from the Punjab government, ₹50 lakh from ICICI bank insurance which we get —in case killed in action — when we sign up for defence service package in some banks like SBI and ICICI. Of the amount the army has to give, only ₹48 lakh has come. This has gone into the joint account of his parents.

“The ₹44 lakh ex gratia amount and ₹8 lakh from the battle casualty fund is yet to come. Also, as per the scheme, he should be getting salary for four more years. That is not coming.”

On the source of the Congress claim that 13 Agniveers had died since June last year, Chaudhary said it was based on visits that ex-servicemen had paid to the families of the dead soldiers.

He demanded clarity on how they had died, claiming that many of them had died by suicide.

“If this is correct, then why so many suicides among Agniveers? In 26 years of service, I came across only one suicide in the army. If there are so many suicides, it shows the training is not making them mentally strong,” he said.

Chaudhary demanded a white paper on the Agnipath scheme.

Officially, the army has confirmed the death of only four Agniveers till now. Army sources refused comment on the Congress claim of 13 dead Agniveers.

While Rahul has dwelt on the hazards of sending youngsters with just six months’ training to the front, a social media post by a former navy chief on how this was affecting the combat units has added muscle to his contention.

“A lot of attention is (rightly) being focused on in-service disparities & poor post-demob prospects of young Agniveers. But is anyone worried about the huge operational handicap imposed on combat units, forced to accept barely trained recruits, fit only for sentry duties??” Admiral Arun Prakash (retd) had posted on X.

Without mentioning this post, the Congress flagged the issue of the Agniveers’ combat-readiness, arguing that not just their lives but also national security was being put at risk.

https://www.telegraphindia.com/india/congress-widens-scope-of-its-attack-on-agnipath-scheme-spotlights-agniveer-suicides/cid/2031568

 

[Bagheera0084]

Amid row over Agnipath scheme, 22-year-old Agniveer commits suicide at Agra air force station

The news comes a day after the Congress flagged increasing suicides among recruits under the Agnipath scheme, asked whether Agniveers were being trained to be “mentally strong”

Imran Ahmed Siddiqui
New Delhi | Published 06.07.24, 06:02 AM

A 22-year-old Agniveer allegedly shot himself dead with his service rifle while on sentry duty at the Agra air force station late on Tuesday night, it was revealed on Friday.

The news comes a day after the Congress flagged increasing suicides among recruits under the Agnipath scheme, asked whether Agniveers were being trained to be “mentally strong”, and questioned the compensation paid to the family of a slain Agniveer.

Fuelling the growing controversy over the short-term military recruitment scheme, which the Opposition wants scrapped, two former navy chiefs have queried the combat efficiency of Agniveers.

The deceased in Tuesday’s incident has been identified as Srikant Kumar Chaudhary, a resident of Ballia in Uttar Pradesh who had joined the air force in 2022.

Sources in Agra police said Srikant appeared to have been depressed after being denied leave because of a lack of manpower at the IAF station.

“A court of inquiry has been ordered to ascertain what led to Srikant’s death,” the IAF spokesperson, Wing Commander Ashish Moghe, said.

A police officer in Agra said: “His elder brother arrived in Agra on Wednesday to complete the paperwork, after which the body was handed over to him."

The police officer added: “Srikant was cremated at his village, Narayanpur, on Thursday evening with a guard of honour by air force personnel.”

In a post on X, Major General Yash Mor (retd) said: “The ground reality of the life of an agniveer in barracks needs urgent attention. They are unhappy, ridiculed often and not very sure of their future. With just 30 days leave in a year, it’s a very difficult life to be atthe bottom of any hierarchical organisation.”

The Opposition accuses the Narendra Modi government of having railroaded the Agnipath legislation without adequate consultations with stakeholders. The Congress on Thursday demanded a white paper on the scheme.

Two former navy chiefs, Admiral K.B. Singh and Admiral Arun Prakash, had earlier this week said the “barely trained (Agnipath) recruits, fit only for sentry duties” would “degrade the combat effectiveness” of the military.

Under the Agnipath scheme, launched in June 2022, soldiers known as Agniveers are recruited to the army, air force and the navy on four-year contracts, after which 75 per cent of themare to be demobilised. They are not entitled to gratuityor pension.

The remaining 25 per cent, chosen on the basis of merit and organisational requirements, are to be retained in the regular cadre.

Before the scheme, a fit general-duty soldier served 15 to 18 years.

Rahul Gandhi, leader of the Opposition in the Lok Sabha, this week accused the government of having created two types of jawans -- those who would receive pension after retirement and those who wouldn’t.

https://www.telegraphindia.com/amp/india/amid-row-over-agnipath-scheme-22-year-old-agniveer-commits-at-agra-air-force-station/cid/2031823

@vsdoc @Sharma Ji @Circadian Rhythm @Faceless @Nilgiri @Cryptonian @JaneBhiDoYaaron @pikku @pikkuboss @Guru Dutt @harpy1 @Justin TruDont @Raj-Hindustani @Magadh @vikNerv @panzerfaust 3 @Pataliputra @MirageBlue @Krptonite @Paitoo @SoulSpokesman

 

[Bagheera0084]

Around 20 Agniveer deaths reported less than a year after their induction

 

[harpy1]

As sad as it is ..Rip
This happens globally in all militarys

What We Learned This Year: Military Recruits Died by Suicide at Higher Rates Than Other Young People in San Diego

Read more stories in our What We Learned This Year series here. If you or someone you know is considering suicide call or text 988. I was working on a morbid task: going through death certificates for people under 21 who had died by suicide. I wanted to know if, as some reports had suggested, […]

voiceofsandiego.org

 

[Bagheera0084]

Forces seek to raise Agnipath age limit to 23, increase retention to 50%

By Rahul Singh, New Delhi
Jul 06, 2024 10:45 AM IST

The armed forces are planning to propose raising the upper age limit from 21 to 23 to induct graduates who can be groomed for technical jobs

The armed forces are expected to suggest to the government that the age ceiling for Agnipath inductees be raised to 23 and that at least 50% be retained after four years, senior military officials aware of the matter said on Friday.

The officials, who asked not to be named, attributed the suggested changes in the controversial scheme for recruiting soldiers that was introduced two years ago to a desire to boost “combat effectiveness”. The Agnipah scheme has come under fire from aspirants across the country, especially the northern states, and is believed to have lost the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) some votes across the region in the summer’s national election.

The proposed overhaul of Agnipath, which will have to be approved by the government, is being sought at a time when the scheme has ignited a firestorm of controversy and deepened the political divide over its impact on national security.

The first modification of the scheme that the armed forces are planning to propose to the government is to raise the upper age limit from 21 to 23 to induct graduates who can be groomed for technical jobs in the three services, said one of the officials cited above.

The second one is for the retention of at least 50% Agniveers in service, as against the current 25%, to hedge against a manpower crunch in specialised areas, said a second official.

“These changes are essential to bolster combat effectiveness,” said the first official. “The three services used to induct graduates in big numbers under the legacy recruitment system. There is a need to raise the age limit by two years to allow graduates to apply.”

Only young men and women aged between 17 and a half and 21 are eligible under the scheme that seeks to recruit soldiers for only four years, with a provision of retaining 25% of them in regular service for another 15 years.

Under the legacy system, applicants aged between 17 and a half and 23 could apply for technical positions even though the upper age limit was 21 for general duty.

Soldiers recruited under the legacy recruitment system serve for about 20 years before they retire in their late 30s with pension and other benefits, which Agniveers released from service after four years are not entitled to.

The low retention rate can lead to a manpower crunch in critical streams, said a third official.

“If X number of Agniveers are assigned to a particular technical stream and none of them are among the 25% soldiers retained in service, it will lead to a huge void in those areas. The retention rate needs to be raised to avoid this. The scheme must address issues related to better management of trained manpower,” he said.

The row swirling around the scheme deepened on Thursday after former navy chief Admiral KB Singh criticised the recruitment model saying it will “degrade the combat effectiveness” of the military.

“The only motivation driving the Agnipath is reducing the pension bill. The fact that this scheme will degrade combat effectiveness is known to all who understand national security,” he wrote on X, in response to a post on the subject by another former navy chief, Admiral Arun Prakash.

Singh’s comments are significant because he was among the key figures involved in discussions on the Agnipath proposal and retired from the top job in November 2021, months before the government announced the scheme in June 2022.

Earlier this week, Leader of Opposition in Lok Sabha Rahul Gandhi released a video of the father of an Agniveer, saying that the family had not received any compensation from the Centre after his son was killed in a landmine explosion in Naushera in Jammu & Kashmir in January.

The army, however, rebutted this, saying a chunk of the compensation was paid to the next of kin of Agniveer Ajay Kumar and the rest would be disbursed shortly.

The scheme was also at the centre of an intense debate in Parliament recently, with Prime Minister Narendra Modi and other senior ministers accusing the Congress of spreading lies about the recruitment model. Earlier this week, Gandhi attacked the government in Lok Sabha over the scheme, claiming that the Agniveers recruited under it were not granted the status of martyrs and were akin to “use and throw” labour.

To be sure, there is no official “martyr” status that is granted to any soldier.

In a discussion in Lok Sabha on July 2, Modi touched upon the scheme which he described as one of the key reforms in the defence sector.

“Our armed forces should be young. They are there to defeat the enemy. We must trust our youth...The armed forces have suffered because of reforms not being initiated in time. The country’s security is a serious matter,” he said.

At the time of its announcement, the government said the scheme would lower the age profile of the armed forces, ensure a fitter military and create a technically skilled warfighting force capable of meeting future challenges. Then too, Agnipath sparked widespread protests and forced a concerted outreach by the government to scotch apprehensions about it.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/forces-seek-to-raise-agnipath-age-limit-increase-retention-101720241193859.html

@vsdoc @Sharma Ji @Circadian Rhythm @Faceless @Nilgiri @Cryptonian @JaneBhiDoYaaron @pikku @pikkuboss @Guru Dutt @harpy1 @Justin TruDont @Raj-Hindustani @Magadh @vikNerv @panzerfaust 3 @Pataliputra @MirageBlue @Krptonite @Paitoo @SoulSpokesman

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

Forces seek to raise Agnipath age limit to 23, increase retention to 50%

By Rahul Singh, New Delhi
Jul 06, 2024 10:45 AM IST

The armed forces are planning to propose raising the upper age limit from 21 to 23 to induct graduates who can be groomed for technical jobs

The armed forces are expected to suggest to the government that the age ceiling for Agnipath inductees be raised to 23 and that at least 50% be retained after four years, senior military officials aware of the matter said on Friday.

The officials, who asked not to be named, attributed the suggested changes in the controversial scheme for recruiting soldiers that was introduced two years ago to a desire to boost “combat effectiveness”. The Agnipah scheme has come under fire from aspirants across the country, especially the northern states, and is believed to have lost the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) some votes across the region in the summer’s national election.

The proposed overhaul of Agnipath, which will have to be approved by the government, is being sought at a time when the scheme has ignited a firestorm of controversy and deepened the political divide over its impact on national security.

The first modification of the scheme that the armed forces are planning to propose to the government is to raise the upper age limit from 21 to 23 to induct graduates who can be groomed for technical jobs in the three services, said one of the officials cited above.

The second one is for the retention of at least 50% Agniveers in service, as against the current 25%, to hedge against a manpower crunch in specialised areas, said a second official.

“These changes are essential to bolster combat effectiveness,” said the first official. “The three services used to induct graduates in big numbers under the legacy recruitment system. There is a need to raise the age limit by two years to allow graduates to apply.”

Only young men and women aged between 17 and a half and 21 are eligible under the scheme that seeks to recruit soldiers for only four years, with a provision of retaining 25% of them in regular service for another 15 years.

Under the legacy system, applicants aged between 17 and a half and 23 could apply for technical positions even though the upper age limit was 21 for general duty.

Soldiers recruited under the legacy recruitment system serve for about 20 years before they retire in their late 30s with pension and other benefits, which Agniveers released from service after four years are not entitled to.

The low retention rate can lead to a manpower crunch in critical streams, said a third official.

“If X number of Agniveers are assigned to a particular technical stream and none of them are among the 25% soldiers retained in service, it will lead to a huge void in those areas. The retention rate needs to be raised to avoid this. The scheme must address issues related to better management of trained manpower,” he said.

The row swirling around the scheme deepened on Thursday after former navy chief Admiral KB Singh criticised the recruitment model saying it will “degrade the combat effectiveness” of the military.

“The only motivation driving the Agnipath is reducing the pension bill. The fact that this scheme will degrade combat effectiveness is known to all who understand national security,” he wrote on X, in response to a post on the subject by another former navy chief, Admiral Arun Prakash.

Singh’s comments are significant because he was among the key figures involved in discussions on the Agnipath proposal and retired from the top job in November 2021, months before the government announced the scheme in June 2022.

Earlier this week, Leader of Opposition in Lok Sabha Rahul Gandhi released a video of the father of an Agniveer, saying that the family had not received any compensation from the Centre after his son was killed in a landmine explosion in Naushera in Jammu & Kashmir in January.

The army, however, rebutted this, saying a chunk of the compensation was paid to the next of kin of Agniveer Ajay Kumar and the rest would be disbursed shortly.

The scheme was also at the centre of an intense debate in Parliament recently, with Prime Minister Narendra Modi and other senior ministers accusing the Congress of spreading lies about the recruitment model. Earlier this week, Gandhi attacked the government in Lok Sabha over the scheme, claiming that the Agniveers recruited under it were not granted the status of martyrs and were akin to “use and throw” labour.

To be sure, there is no official “martyr” status that is granted to any soldier.

In a discussion in Lok Sabha on July 2, Modi touched upon the scheme which he described as one of the key reforms in the defence sector.

“Our armed forces should be young. They are there to defeat the enemy. We must trust our youth...The armed forces have suffered because of reforms not being initiated in time. The country’s security is a serious matter,” he said.

At the time of its announcement, the government said the scheme would lower the age profile of the armed forces, ensure a fitter military and create a technically skilled warfighting force capable of meeting future challenges. Then too, Agnipath sparked widespread protests and forced a concerted outreach by the government to scotch apprehensions about it.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/forces-seek-to-raise-agnipath-age-limit-increase-retention-101720241193859.html

@vsdoc @Sharma Ji @Circadian Rhythm @Faceless @Nilgiri @Cryptonian @JaneBhiDoYaaron @pikku @pikkuboss @Guru Dutt @harpy1 @Justin TruDont @Raj-Hindustani @Magadh @vikNerv @panzerfaust 3 @Pataliputra @MirageBlue @Krptonite @Paitoo @SoulSpokesman

I am against such scheme, armymen put their lives in dangerous situations for the country, and you are trying to manipulate because you want to save some amounts.


You can save the ammount in other areas but should not compromise with your security

 

[Cryptonian]

I am against such scheme, armymen put their lives in dangerous situations for the country, and you are trying to manipulate because you want to save some amounts.


You can save the ammount in other areas but should not compromise with your security

Save in which areas ? Do not shoot in the dark. Do not blabber without concrete solution.

We already spend higher % of GDP on defence compare to China.
Our population is not highly educated and votes on basis of freebies. We need to invest in Education ,R&D and Manufacturing sector PLI.

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

Save in which areas ? Do not shoot in the dark. Do not blabber without concrete solution.

We already spend higher % of GDP on defence compare to China.
Our population is not highly educated and votes on basis of freebies. We need to invest in Education ,R&D and Manufacturing sector PLI.

Most savings are about pensions, retirement benefits etc

That's the purpose of this bs scheme

 

[Cryptonian]

Most savings are about pensions

And that's where savings should be. Let rest of 50% be sent into CRPF and BSF. They got separate budget , it will reduce army's pension/salary budget and the training cost for paraMiL forces.

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

And that's where savings should be. Let rest of 50% be sent into CRPF and BSF. They got separate budget , it will reduce army's pension/salary budget and the training cost for paraMiL forces.

Means - you asking youth indians to die for money - insurance and some amounts,

Better hire people from other nations and pay the money - since money is important.

This is one of the most stupid move of Modi, it's the one of the reason also was unable to get 270 seats.

Again - working for army should be passionated by love for own country but not for money - for money - people can work in private sectors

 

[Cryptonian]

Means - you asking youth indians to die for money - insurance and some amounts,

Better hire people from other nations and pay the money - since money is important.

This is one of the most stupid move of Modi, it's the reason also was unable to get 270 seats

Again - working for army should be passionated but not for money - for money - people can work in private sectors

Listen buddy first go read about short service commission. It's not the first time this is happening.

No one is asking anyone yiu fool. It's not conscription. Btw it's not "some amount" , it's fuckin 1.5crore for "dying" part.

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

Hey kid first go read about short service commission. It's not the first time this is happening.

No one is asking anyone I am fool. It's not conscription. Btw it's not "some amount" , it's fuckin 1.5crore for "dying" part.

Explain to this father - blind modi bhakt..
Modi was not able to get 272 seats because of overjoyed with support from the blind bhakts.

Agniveer row: 'Got Rs 98 lakh as compensation, want martyr status for son,' says young soldier's father

His clarification came almost a day after Congress MP Rahul Gandhi showed a video featuring Singh

www.businesstoday.in