Air India lobbies to use airspace in China’s Xinjiang as financial woes from Pakistan ban mount

[KingQamaR]

Weren’t Indians not long ago claimed they had isolated Pakistan internationally . Sounds more like they have isolated themselves Lol

 

[retaxis]

India really has no shame. One hand it talks shit about china and other hand begging china for rare earth's, flight paths, urea fertiliser and technology. Obviously china said fk off.

 

[ety]

Beijing criticizes the United States on a daily basis on the matter of Taiwan and Asian Pacific militarisation, yet bilateral trade between the two remains in the hundreds of billions of dollars. By your logic, that would also be "having no shame."

As for rare earths, fertilizers, technology, and flight connectivity, these are not favors being requested out of charity. They are areas of mutual economic interest.

If China chooses to restrict exports or deny access in pursuit of its own strategic objectives, that is its sovereign prerogative. India will respond by diversifying suppliers, developing domestic capacity, or seeking alternative arrangements. That is how states behave.

Remember China being blacklisted from ASML's EUV tech and then coming up with their own alternative? Or the whole Biden Chip war saga?

Lol, you people are constantly asking China tor favors such as restricted rare earths and urea supplies, restricted fight paths and tech transfer, and you call these requests mutual economic interests, laughable, what does China benefit ? And you people can readily stop buying Chinese products as crazy on your part if you think those trades don't benefit you people. There are now people in India even talk of migrating to China to escape the boiling heat in your country, Chinese definitely don't want Indians moving to China, why don't you people solve your problems in your country instead of eyeing enemy China for solutions.

 

[Dalit]

You will open air space if and when the IWT treaty is rengaged

This is Tit for Tat

Water supply indefinitely compromised or air space restriction indefinitely
No body wins

We will see.

 

[Dalit]

India really has no shame. One hand it talks shit about china and other hand begging china for rare earth's, flight paths, urea fertiliser and technology. Obviously china said fk off.

That is the way Indians operate. Backstabbing and handshakes are part of Indian diplomacy. India always seeks to isolate and hurt Pakistan, but very often it fails spectacularly.

It is laughable how India approached China and has remained silent since then.

 

[RescueRanger]

Mod Note: Please do not feed the trolls. Just kindly report.

 

[nahtanbob]

Lol, you people are constantly asking China tor favors such as restricted rare earths and urea supplies, restricted fight paths and tech transfer, and you call these requests mutual economic interests, laughable, what does China benefit ? And you people can readily stop buying Chinese products as crazy on your part if you think those trades don't benefit you people. There are now people in India even talk of migrating to China to escape the boiling heat in your country, Chinese definitely don't want Indians moving to China, why don't you people solve your problems in your country instead of eyeing enemy China for solutions.

China sells $100 billion plus products to India. you make it sound like china is giving out freebies

 

[Master Chief]

Outrage in India after ‘experiment’ remark on ethanol-mixed fuel

Consumers unhappy about lower fuel efficiency and vehicle performance plan a protest against the policy.

www.dawn.com

Indian crude supply is so fked up, they are actually mixing excess ethanol into petrol now.

The idiots who will cartwheel up on this very thread and deny this are part of the problem for India. I don't think we should stop them.

 

[Master Chief]

Actually its you who are an idiot! Did you even bother to read the article you posted?

India wants reduce it dependence on imported crude oil. As crude oil import is biggest forex drain in any country.

That is why India has introduced E20(a mix of 20 % Ethanol and 80 % petrol) and E85 (85% Ethanol and 15 % Petrol).

Ethanol is produced from Sugar cane and India is second largest producer of sugan cane in the world after Brazil. Ethanol is much cheaper than petrol, cleaner than petrol and most of all it can made with in the country. Insulating the country from foreign oil shocks and at the same time, supporting Indian farmers.

Ethanol has much higher octane rating than regular petrol(that is why it is used in Formula 1, NACAR and other race cars)

However Ethanol has a lower calorific value than petrol that is why Ethanol fuel blends do not give the same milage as cars running regular petrol. However lower price of Ethanol fuel blends can more than make up for lower milage.

It is just that people need to be properly educated on what to expect when using Ethanol fuel blends.

Brazil the worlds largest producer of Sugar cane uses E100 fuel in their cars.

P.S. Doesn't Pakistan produces a lot sugarcane and has very less forex reserves ? Shouldn't you guys be doing this too?

Please continue "reducing dependence" on crude oil. Add more ethanol to your petrol. We are happy for you. Feel free to mix sawdust in your engine oil compartment! Still works and saves precious forex.

 

[Dalit]

Air India is lobbying the Indian government to convince China to let it use a sensitive military airspace zone in Xinjiang to shorten routes as the financial toll from a ban on Indian carriers flying over Pakistan mounts, a company document shows.

The unusual request comes just weeks after direct India-China flights resumed after a five-year hiatus following a Himalayan border clash between the nations.

Air India has been seeking to rebuild its reputation and international network after a London-bound Boeing 787 Dreamliner crashed in Gujarat in June, killing 260 people and forcing it to briefly cut flights for safety checks.

But that effort is being complicated by the closure of Pakistan airspace to Indian carriers since diplomatic tensions erupted in late April.

For Air India, the country’s only carrier with a major international network, fuel costs have risen by as much as 29 per cent and journey times by up to three hours on some long-haul routes, according to the previously unreported document submitted to Indian officials in late October and reviewed by Reuters.

The Indian government is reviewing Air India’s plea to diplomatically ask China to allow an alternative routing and emergency access to airports in case of diversions at Hotan, Kashgar and Urumqi in Xinjiang, aiming to reach US, Canada and Europe faster, the document said.

“Air India’s long-haul network is under severe operational and financial strain … Securing Hotan route will be a strategic option,” it added.

The airline, owned by Tata Group and Singapore Airlines, estimated the Pakistan airspace closure’s impact on its profit before tax at $455 million annually — a significant amount given its fiscal 2024-25 loss stood at $439m.

The Chinese foreign ministry said it was not aware of the situation and referred Reuters to the “relevant authorities”.

Air India and civil aviation authorities in India, China and Pakistan did not respond to Reuters’ queries.

Without Hotan, some routes becoming ‘unviable’
The Chinese airspace Air India is seeking to access is ringed by some of the world’s highest mountains of 20,000 feet or more, and is avoided by international airlines due to potential safety risks in case of a decompression incident.

More critically, it also falls within People’s Liberation Army’s Western Theatre Command, which is equipped with extensive missile, drone and air-defence assets and shares some airports with civilian aircraft, military analysts say.

The Pentagon’s December report on China’s military said the command’s responsibilities include responding to any conflict with India.

China’s military has much greater control of the country’s airspace than in most other aviation markets, restricting flight paths. Open-source intelligence tracker Damien Symon said China’s military has recently expanded an airbase at Hotan.

China’s defence ministry did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

Data from AirNav Radar shows no non-Chinese airlines departed or arrived at Hotan airport in the last 12 months.

Shukor Yusof, founder of aviation consultancy Endau Analytics, said: “Air India can try, but it’s doubtful China will accede” to access given the region’s terrain, lack of emergency airports and possibility of security issues.

Airspace globally has been constricted due to proliferating conflict zones.

US carriers have been banned from flying over Russia since the Ukraine war began in 2022 and pulled out of many US-India routes. That gave Air India a near-monopoly on non-stop flights from India.

But after the Pakistan airspace closure, Air India’s Delhi-Washington route was suspended in August. Now other routes are under review, with the direct Mumbai- and Bengaluru to San Francisco routes “becoming unviable” due to an additional three hours of travel time, including a technical stop in Kolkata, the document said.

A flight from San Francisco to Mumbai on Lufthansa via Munich is now only five minutes longer than on Air India.

“Passengers (are) shifting to foreign carriers due to shorter flight time as they have the benefit of Pakistan overflight,” the document said.

Air India estimates the requested Hotan route in China could substantially cut extra fuel requirements and flight times, help restore passenger and cargo capacity it trimmed by as much as 15pc on routes like New York- and Vancouver-Delhi, and reduce losses by an estimated $1.13m per week.

Cash flow burden deepens finance woes

With no signs of airspace ban easing, Air India also wants “temporary subsidy till Pakistan airspace opens”, the document said.

Air India, which has placed $70 billion of aircraft orders, is seeking help resolving legacy tax issues.

India’s government indemnified the airline against claims payable before selling it to Tata in 2022, but several notices have been received related to old tax liabilities of $725m, raising legal and reputation risks, the document said.

A confidential government notice from March, seen by Reuters, showed tax authorities warned of “coercive steps” — which can include freezing of assets — to recover dues of $58m in one case.

Contesting such tax demands has led to “additional cashflow burden … despite assurances during disinvestment”, the airline said.

Air India lobbies to use airspace over China’s Xinjiang as financial woes from Pakistan ban mount

Airline estimates Pakistan airspace closure's impact on its profit before tax at $455 million annually.

www.dawn.com

Let's revisit the original question of this topic. The million dollar question, has China given permission to India to use Xinjiang air space?

 

[RescueRanger]

@Jaeger time for you to take a break from PDF. I advised you about this behaviour earlier.

 

[Michael]

Let's revisit the original question of this topic. The million dollar question, has China given permission to India to use Xinjiang air space?

This issue isn't even worth discussing. It's simply impossible to discuss.

The administrator should close this thread.

 

[ety]

China sells $100 billion plus products to India. you make it sound like china is giving out freebies

Lol, China is not begging India to buy all those Chinese products. You can get from somewhere else if you can get better deals.