- Thread starter
- #16
The article doesn't say anything about overlay accuracy where did you find it?
Alleged mass production of Chinese DUV started
- Thread starter Hendarto
- Start date
The overlay accuracy here corresponds to the Chinese character【套刻】
SMEE immersion tools are being deployed at CXMT, YMTC, SMIC
The capacity expansion happening at these fabs is through SSA800
They can produce 3 tools per month
CXMT went from 70K WPM(2022) to 200K WPM by the end of this year
They will add another 100K WPM next year
HBM2e mass production has started
They plan to mass produce hbm3 in 2025
Got this Random source online take it with a grain of salt.
The capacity expansion happening at these fabs is through SSA800
They can produce 3 tools per month
CXMT went from 70K WPM(2022) to 200K WPM by the end of this year
They will add another 100K WPM next year
HBM2e mass production has started
They plan to mass produce hbm3 in 2025
Got this Random source online take it with a grain of salt.
- Thread starter
- #22
【项立刚：光刻机永远不会有“官宣”】近日，在《首台（套）重大技术装备推广应用指导目录（2024年版）》电子专用装备目录中，集成电路设备方面：氟化氩光刻机，光源193纳米，分辨率≤65nm，套刻≤8nm。引起了社会广泛的关注，很多人在传这是国产光刻机“官宣”了。我看了微微的笑，国产光刻机永远不会有“官宣”这件事。1.一般人的理解，光刻机这样一件重大的事情，只要把它研发出来，一定会和中科院的项目一样，请专家们开一个鉴定会，然后向记者们宣布，已经达到了世界先进水平，取得了重大突破，媒体上大肆发布，甚至上新闻联播。今天主导光刻机的研发和生产的是产业界，产业界的做法，是把它做起来出来，拿到生产线上去试验，有问题就改进，跑通了以后，就逐渐跑稳定，然后去跑小批量，再跑中批量。没有什么节点，也没有什么鉴定会。看看这个产品有没有问题，是研发人员和客户一起发现的，不需要专家们拿个红包开鉴定会。这些研发人员自己就是专家。2.对于芯片和光刻机，今天中国的态度，就是悄悄的干，不会到外面去说。干到了什么水平，你永远不会知道。敌对势力我们不能让他知道，社会大众你知道了也没有什么多大用处。华为的芯片，早就是SoC了，当然是拥有5G的基带，现在我的手机上面就没有5G标识，不标了。华为出来讲自己的新手机，再也不讲芯片型号，更不会讲芯片制程，拆了成千上万台手机，其实也搞不清楚技术指标。其实华为连手机发布会都没有了，只是其他的一些活动，顺便说了说手机。至于光刻机，上海微电子本来是要上市的，表都交了，然后被撤回来。现在又不是缺钱，也不缺市场，光刻机做出来就能卖得掉，下功夫去做研发就行了，上什么市？3.为大家大概拉一下光刻机的时间节点，做出技术方案，进行各个部件的采购和研发，组装出样机，样机安装到试产线上，跑通整个流程，进行小批量生产。其实到了这一步，就可以算光刻机已经研发出来了。今天中国DUV的光刻机，早就不是什么研发出来了，这件事情应该发生在1年半以前，而是已在生产线上。进行产品批量生产，就像华为的麒麟芯片，早已经装在成千上万部手机中，没有什么保密必要了，它才会出现在重大设备推广应用的指导目录中。4.其实对光刻机而言，只要做出DUV光刻机，很快就会做出EUV光刻机，这两种光刻机并无大的差别，无非就是光源的改变，从193nm的紫外线，变为12.5nm的紫外线，工作台基本上是一样的，原理更是一样的。我以前说5年之内会把DUV、EUV全部拿下，众台湾特务如丧考妣，死咬我的学历，左一个中专生，右一个中专生，忘记了老子中国人民大学研究生。其实关于产业，中国有多少人敢说比我看得清楚？观点反驳不了我，就想用学历来诋毁我。我喜欢这种状态。我知道台湾特务们下面要论证，工信部目录中这个光刻机，不是真正的光刻机，或者不是真正能够做出8纳米芯片的光刻机，也会去论证，这个光刻机的产品良率不高。这些台湾特务，从来没见过什么是光刻机，他们还想真了解光刻机的进展？5.光刻机只是一台设备，没有什么大不了的，中国真正发力这个领域，不过是2020年之后，真正搞出来，也就是2~3年，后面迭代的速度会越来越快。有钱、有人、有市场，哪有什么做不出来的设备？更何况上海微电子这样的企业，在光刻机领域已经积累了20多年了。半导体相关的领域，以后还是不会有什么官宣的，等到有些地方，不经意的把消息透露出来，这其实都已经用了很长一段时间，没有什么可保密的了。中国的普通老百姓，安心的睡觉就行了，有很多努力前行的人，他们在为守卫这个国家付出。我知道台湾特务们，看了这些会心如刀绞，其实这并不重要，重要的是三年后，你们会面对间谍罪的惩处。
Translated from Chinese by
[Xiang Ligang: There will never be an "official announcement" for lithography machines]Recently, in the catalog of electronic special equipment in the "Guide Catalog for the Promotion and Application of the First Major Technical Equipment (2024 Edition)", in terms of integrated circuit equipment: argon fluoride lithography machine, light source 193 nanometers, resolution ≤ 65nm, overlay ≤ 8nm. This has attracted widespread attention from the society, and many people are saying that this is the "official announcement" of the domestic lithography machine.I smiled slightly when I saw it.
There will never be an "official announcement" about domestic lithography machines.1. Most people understand that for a major project like a lithography machine, as long as it is developed, it will be done like the Chinese Academy of Sciences project, with experts holding an appraisal meeting, and then announcing to reporters that it has reached the world's advanced level and achieved a major breakthrough, and it will be widely publicized in the media and even on the news broadcast.
Today, the industry is leading the R&D and production of lithography machines. The industry's approach is to build it, take it to the production line for testing, and improve it if there are any problems. After it runs smoothly, it gradually runs stably, and then runs small batches, and then medium batches.
There are no nodes, and there are no appraisal meetings. Whether there are any problems with this product is discovered by R&D personnel and customers together. There is no need for experts to take red envelopes to hold appraisal meetings. These R&D personnel are experts themselves.2. As for chips and lithography machines, China's attitude today is to work quietly and not tell others about it. You will never know what level we have achieved.
We cannot let hostile forces know, and it will not be of much use to the general public if they know about it.Huawei's chips have long been SoCs, and of course they have 5G basebands. Now there is no 5G logo on my phone.When Huawei talks about its new mobile phones, it no longer talks about the chip model, let alone the chip manufacturing process. After disassembling thousands of mobile phones, it still cannot figure out the technical indicators.In fact, Huawei didn’t even have a mobile phone launch conference, it just held some other activities and talked about mobile phones in passing.As for the lithography machine,
Shanghai Microelectronics was going to go public, but the application was submitted and then the company was withdrawn. Now we are not short of money or market, and the lithography machine can be sold as soon as it is made. We just need to work hard on research and development. Why go public?3. Give you a rough idea of the timeline for the lithography machine, make a technical plan, purchase and develop various components, assemble a prototype, install the prototype on the pilot production line, run through the entire process, and conduct small-batch production.
In fact, at this point, the lithography machine can be considered to have been developed.Today, China's DUV lithography machine is no longer a research and development project. This should have happened a year and a half ago, but it is already on the production line. Mass production of products, like Huawei's Kirin chips, has already been installed in tens of thousands of mobile phones.
There is no need to keep it secret. It will only appear in the guidance catalog for the promotion and application of major equipment.4. In fact, for lithography machines, as long as the DUV lithography machine is made, the EUV lithography machine will be made soon. There is no big difference between the two lithography machines. The only difference is the change of light source, from 193nm ultraviolet light to 12.5nm ultraviolet light. The workbench is basically the same, and the principle is even more the same.I said before that DUV and EUV will be mastered within 5 years, and the Taiwanese spies were like bereaved parents, and they kept nagging about my academic qualifications, saying that I was a technical secondary school student on the left and a technical secondary school student on the right, forgetting that I was a graduate student at Renmin University of China.
In fact, how many people in China dare to say that they see the industry more clearly than I do? They can't refute my opinions, so they want to use my academic qualifications to discredit me. I like this state.I know that Taiwan’s spies are going to argue that the lithography machine in the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology’s catalog is not a real lithography machine, or is not a lithography machine that can truly produce 8-nanometer chips. They will also argue that the product yield of this lithography machine is not high.
These Taiwanese spies have never seen what a lithography machine is. Do they really want to understand the progress of lithography machines?5. The photolithography machine is just a piece of equipment. It is nothing big. China will really make efforts in this field after 2020. It will take 2 to 3 years to really make it. The speed of iteration will be faster and faster. With money, people and market, what equipment can't be made?
Moreover, companies like Shanghai Microelectronics have accumulated more than 20 years in the field of photolithography machines.There will still be no official announcements in the semiconductor-related field in the future.
By the time the news is inadvertently leaked to some places, it will have been a long time and there is nothing to keep secret.Ordinary Chinese people can just sleep peacefully. There are many people working hard to protect this country. I know that the Taiwanese spies will feel heartbroken after reading this, but it is not important. What is important is that you will face punishment for espionage in three years.
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Translated from Chinese by
[Xiang Ligang: There will never be an "official announcement" for lithography machines]Recently, in the catalog of electronic special equipment in the "Guide Catalog for the Promotion and Application of the First Major Technical Equipment (2024 Edition)", in terms of integrated circuit equipment: argon fluoride lithography machine, light source 193 nanometers, resolution ≤ 65nm, overlay ≤ 8nm. This has attracted widespread attention from the society, and many people are saying that this is the "official announcement" of the domestic lithography machine.I smiled slightly when I saw it.
There will never be an "official announcement" about domestic lithography machines.1. Most people understand that for a major project like a lithography machine, as long as it is developed, it will be done like the Chinese Academy of Sciences project, with experts holding an appraisal meeting, and then announcing to reporters that it has reached the world's advanced level and achieved a major breakthrough, and it will be widely publicized in the media and even on the news broadcast.
Today, the industry is leading the R&D and production of lithography machines. The industry's approach is to build it, take it to the production line for testing, and improve it if there are any problems. After it runs smoothly, it gradually runs stably, and then runs small batches, and then medium batches.
There are no nodes, and there are no appraisal meetings. Whether there are any problems with this product is discovered by R&D personnel and customers together. There is no need for experts to take red envelopes to hold appraisal meetings. These R&D personnel are experts themselves.2. As for chips and lithography machines, China's attitude today is to work quietly and not tell others about it. You will never know what level we have achieved.
We cannot let hostile forces know, and it will not be of much use to the general public if they know about it.Huawei's chips have long been SoCs, and of course they have 5G basebands. Now there is no 5G logo on my phone.When Huawei talks about its new mobile phones, it no longer talks about the chip model, let alone the chip manufacturing process. After disassembling thousands of mobile phones, it still cannot figure out the technical indicators.In fact, Huawei didn’t even have a mobile phone launch conference, it just held some other activities and talked about mobile phones in passing.As for the lithography machine,
Shanghai Microelectronics was going to go public, but the application was submitted and then the company was withdrawn. Now we are not short of money or market, and the lithography machine can be sold as soon as it is made. We just need to work hard on research and development. Why go public?3. Give you a rough idea of the timeline for the lithography machine, make a technical plan, purchase and develop various components, assemble a prototype, install the prototype on the pilot production line, run through the entire process, and conduct small-batch production.
In fact, at this point, the lithography machine can be considered to have been developed.Today, China's DUV lithography machine is no longer a research and development project. This should have happened a year and a half ago, but it is already on the production line. Mass production of products, like Huawei's Kirin chips, has already been installed in tens of thousands of mobile phones.
There is no need to keep it secret. It will only appear in the guidance catalog for the promotion and application of major equipment.4. In fact, for lithography machines, as long as the DUV lithography machine is made, the EUV lithography machine will be made soon. There is no big difference between the two lithography machines. The only difference is the change of light source, from 193nm ultraviolet light to 12.5nm ultraviolet light. The workbench is basically the same, and the principle is even more the same.I said before that DUV and EUV will be mastered within 5 years, and the Taiwanese spies were like bereaved parents, and they kept nagging about my academic qualifications, saying that I was a technical secondary school student on the left and a technical secondary school student on the right, forgetting that I was a graduate student at Renmin University of China.
In fact, how many people in China dare to say that they see the industry more clearly than I do? They can't refute my opinions, so they want to use my academic qualifications to discredit me. I like this state.I know that Taiwan’s spies are going to argue that the lithography machine in the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology’s catalog is not a real lithography machine, or is not a lithography machine that can truly produce 8-nanometer chips. They will also argue that the product yield of this lithography machine is not high.
These Taiwanese spies have never seen what a lithography machine is. Do they really want to understand the progress of lithography machines?5. The photolithography machine is just a piece of equipment. It is nothing big. China will really make efforts in this field after 2020. It will take 2 to 3 years to really make it. The speed of iteration will be faster and faster. With money, people and market, what equipment can't be made?
Moreover, companies like Shanghai Microelectronics have accumulated more than 20 years in the field of photolithography machines.There will still be no official announcements in the semiconductor-related field in the future.
By the time the news is inadvertently leaked to some places, it will have been a long time and there is nothing to keep secret.Ordinary Chinese people can just sleep peacefully. There are many people working hard to protect this country. I know that the Taiwanese spies will feel heartbroken after reading this, but it is not important. What is important is that you will face punishment for espionage in three years.
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- Thread starter
- #24
I am no expert on semi any one comment?
[News] China’s DUV Breakthrough: Capable of Producing 8-Nanometer Chips | TrendForce Insights
China's Ministry of Industry and Information Technology (MIIT) recently announced a major technological breakthrough: the development of a deep ultrav...
www.trendforce.com
China’s DUV Breakthrough: Capable of Producing 8-Nanometer Chips
2024-09-16 Semiconductors editor
China’s Ministry of Industry and Information Technology (MIIT) recently announced a major technological breakthrough: the development of a deep ultraviolet (DUV) lithography machine capable of producing chips of 8 nanometers and below. This technology is currently being promoted for wider application.
On the 9th, the MIIT published a notice on its official website regarding the “Guiding Catalog for the Promotion and Application of Major Technical Equipment (2024 Edition),” urging local governments to enhance the coordination of national support policies across industries, finance, technology, and other sectors.
The MIIT emphasized that major technical equipment is a cornerstone of national strength and security. “China’s first (set of) major technical equipment” refers to equipment products that achieve significant technological breakthroughs domestically, hold intellectual property rights, but have not yet gained substantial market performance. This includes complete machinery, core systems, and key components.
The catalog indicates that, among the integrated circuit production equipment, one notable entry is the “ArF Lithography Machine” (DUV lithography machine). The core technical specifications are a “wafer diameter of 300mm, illumination wavelength of 248nm, resolution ≤65nm, and overlay accuracy ≤8nm.” This means that the domestically produced DUV machine is capable of manufacturing chips of 8 nanometers and below.
Reports suggest that the development of the domestic ArF lithography machine was primarily completed by several leading Chinese semiconductor equipment manufacturers and research institutions. Notably, Advanced Micro-Fabrication Equipment Inc. (AMEC) and Shanghai Micro Electronics Equipment (SMEE) were key participants. The Institute of Microelectronics of the Chinese Academy of Sciences also made significant contributions in this area.
On the 5th of this month, the United States announced tighter export controls on machines required to manufacture advanced semiconductor equipment. The Dutch government followed suit the next day, announcing expanded restrictions on semiconductor manufacturing equipment exports.
Reuters reported that ASML’s 1970i and 1980i DUV lithography machines, which are mid-range models in ASML’s DUV product line, will be impacted by these restrictions on exports to China.
According to a report by Central News Agency, if China successfully achieves domestic production of DUV lithography machines capable of 8-nanometer and below processes, most future chip manufacturing would no longer be dependent on ASML. However, as of now, there has been no official announcement from the Chinese government or manufacturers regarding this development.
(Photo credit: AMEC)
- Thread starter
- #25
Chinese stocks linked to the chip industry jumped on Wednesday, driven by investor interest over a government list, which some see as a sign of China developing advanced chip making technology.
Shares of Changchun UP Optotech Co. jumped 10%, Sai Microelectronics climbed about 4%, Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corp. (OTCQX:SIUIF) rose around 2% in China on Wednesday.
Meanwhile, Shanghai Zhangjiang Hi-Tech Park Development and Shanghai Highly Group soared about 10% each by market close and Sanhe Tongfei Refrigeration surged 20%.
The gains followed a Sept. 9 announcement from the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology, or MIIT, which advised State-linked organizations to use domestically developed deep ultraviolet, or DUV, lithography machines. The lithography machines, which print complex circuit patterns onto silicon wafers, "have achieved significant technological breakthroughs, own intellectual property rights but have yet to perform on the market," according to a previous report.
However, the two machines are still far behind the most advanced system on the market, such as those from Dutch chip equipment maker ASML (ASML). The Biden administration has been stepping up efforts to curb China's access to advance semiconductor equipment, which, among other things, is used in making AI products.
Facing U.S. pressure, The Netherlands has not allowed ASML to ship its best extreme ultraviolet lithography, or EUV, equipment — which are even ahead of the DUV machines — to China, while it started requiring a license for NXT:2000 series and better of DUV tools in September 2023.
One of the DUV lithography machines by China operates at a wavelength of 193 nm, with a resolution below 65nm and an overlay accuracy below 8nm, while the other DUV system has a wavelength of 248nm, with 110nm resolution and 25nm overlay accuracy. The specifications mark a step up from the previous most-advanced indigenous equipment — developed by Shanghai Micro Electronics Equipment Group, which was at around 90nm.
ASML's stock was largely flat premarket on Wednesday.
Shares of Changchun UP Optotech Co. jumped 10%, Sai Microelectronics climbed about 4%, Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corp. (OTCQX:SIUIF) rose around 2% in China on Wednesday.
Meanwhile, Shanghai Zhangjiang Hi-Tech Park Development and Shanghai Highly Group soared about 10% each by market close and Sanhe Tongfei Refrigeration surged 20%.
The gains followed a Sept. 9 announcement from the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology, or MIIT, which advised State-linked organizations to use domestically developed deep ultraviolet, or DUV, lithography machines. The lithography machines, which print complex circuit patterns onto silicon wafers, "have achieved significant technological breakthroughs, own intellectual property rights but have yet to perform on the market," according to a previous report.
However, the two machines are still far behind the most advanced system on the market, such as those from Dutch chip equipment maker ASML (ASML). The Biden administration has been stepping up efforts to curb China's access to advance semiconductor equipment, which, among other things, is used in making AI products.
Facing U.S. pressure, The Netherlands has not allowed ASML to ship its best extreme ultraviolet lithography, or EUV, equipment — which are even ahead of the DUV machines — to China, while it started requiring a license for NXT:2000 series and better of DUV tools in September 2023.
One of the DUV lithography machines by China operates at a wavelength of 193 nm, with a resolution below 65nm and an overlay accuracy below 8nm, while the other DUV system has a wavelength of 248nm, with 110nm resolution and 25nm overlay accuracy. The specifications mark a step up from the previous most-advanced indigenous equipment — developed by Shanghai Micro Electronics Equipment Group, which was at around 90nm.
ASML's stock was largely flat premarket on Wednesday.
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