Arabic Coffee shop

[_Arabia_]

It seems recorded in Madrid, Gran Via street.

The stalker seems to be Moroccan, it's not Spanish.

Anyway, women can wear how they want here, and if someone becomes really a problem, call police.

And BTW Arab women when they wear like westerners, they look very like South Spain women from Andalucia.

Yes, it is in Madrid, I believe. Yes, as I wrote they were Moroccan Arabs (or Moroccan Berbers) due to the Arabic accent. However the Moroccans quickly guessed the origin of the two Saudi Arabian women (they asked if they spoke Arabic), so they stopped speaking and started speaking gibberish to throw them off (lol), later to walk away.

Unfortunately there is a sickness among certain Arab nationalities (mostly limited to Egypt and the Maghreb - Marghrebis in Europe are also mostly engaged in this rather than any other Arabs - let alone Arabs from KSA where such behavior is unheard of), when it comes to harassing women in public. Of course a minority of those nationalities that I mentioned but in KSA, even the minority of such sick individuals, do not dare to behave like that in public, as they risk being disgraced by their own family, clan/tribe let alone face animosity from the strangers women and their families that they harass. Sometimes with fatal consequences for them - a behavior that I do not encourage and something that is luckily very rare nowadays. In other words, it is unthinkable behavior.

Arabs not familiar with Europe or Arabs not born in the West are always shocked by such behavior.

Yes, there is a likeness in terms of look but that goes for all of South Europe due to ancient ancestral ties (which far predate Islam, Christianity, Judaism etc. - by millennia in fact), no closer people to each other in terms of outsiders (a Spaniard is closer genetically to an Arab than he is to a Russian or Estonian and an Arab is closer to a South European from Sicily, Spain, Portugal, Malta etc. than he is to a Muslim Indonesian, Muslim Nigerian or a Muslim Afghan, or a Muslim from Kazakhstan).

That is why Arabs and Europeans cluster with each other in those DNA maps that you see everywhere compared to other world populations.

There is also the 800 + years of Arab presence in Iberia which had a linguistic (Arabic influenced Spanish more than any other language not named Latin), architectural, cuisine, agricultural https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Agricultural_Revolution, DNA (ancestry), Arabs build 15-20 + World UNESCO Heritage sites in Spain alone (among them the most visited one - Alhambra https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alhambra ). So there is a long-term connection.

Before that you had the Semitic Phoneciains (closely related to Arabs) who founded the oldest cities in Iberia such as Cádiz, Lisbon and many others. Later the Carthaginians (Hannibal Barca) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Carthage etc.

The oldest city in Spain for instance is Cádiz and it was founded by Phoenicians.

Phoenicia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Solomon2]

- let alone Arabs from KSA where such behavior is unheard of -

Phoenicia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I have noted this in my reading of Arab cultures, that Arabs in KSA are particularly respectful towards women. And not just in this generation. What I don't understand is why this is difference between KSA Arabs and the other Arabs you mention is so pronounced.

 

[BHAN85]

Yes, it is in Madrid, I believe. Yes, as I wrote they were Moroccan Arabs (or Moroccan Berbers) due to the Arabic accent. However the Moroccans quickly guessed the origin of the two Saudi Arabian women (they asked if they spoke Arabic), so they stopped speaking and started speaking gibberish to throw them off (lol), later to walk away.

Unfortunately there is a sickness among certain Arab nationalities (mostly limited to Egypt and the Maghreb - Marghrebis in Europe are also mostly engaged in this rather than any other Arabs - let alone Arabs from KSA where such behavior is unheard of), when it comes to harassing women in public. Of course a minority of those nationalities that I mentioned but in KSA, even the minority of such sick individuals, do not dare to behave like that in public, as they risk being disgraced by their own family, clan/tribe let alone face animosity from the strangers women and their families that they harass. Sometimes with fatal consequences for them - a behavior that I do not encourage and something that is luckily very rare nowadays. In other words, it is unthinkable behavior.

Arabs not familiar with Europe or Arabs born in the West are always shocked by such behavior.

Yes, there is a likeness in terms of look but that goes for all of South Europe due to ancient ancestral ties (which far predate Islam, Christianity, Judaism etc. - by millennia in fact), no closer people to each other in terms of outsiders (a Spaniard is closer genetically to an Arab than he is to a Russian or Estonian and an Arab is closer to a South European from Sicily, Spain, Portugal, Malta etc. than he is to a Muslim Indonesian, Muslim Nigerian or a Muslim Afghan).

That is why Arabs and Europeans cluster with each other in those DNA maps that you see everywhere compared to other world populations.

There is also the 800 + years of Arab presence in Iberia which had a linguistic (Arabic influenced Spanish more than any other language not named Latin), architectural, cuisine, agricultural https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Agricultural_Revolution, DNA (ancestry), Arabs build 15-20 + World UNESCO Heritage sites in Spain alone (among them the most visited one - Alhambra https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alhambra ). So there is a long-term connection.

Before that you had the Semitic Phoneciains (closely related to Arabs) who founded the oldest cities in Iberia such as Cádiz, Lisbon and many others. Later the Carthaginians (Hannibal Barca) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Carthage etc.

The oldest city in Spain for instance is Cádiz and it was founded by Phoenicians.

Phoenicia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Keep in mind immigration from Magreb to Spain are mainly men, few women. So they have a deficit of women from their countries here.

 

[_Arabia_]

I have noted this in my reading of Arab cultures, that Arabs in KSA are particularly respectful towards women. And not just in this generation. What I don't understand is why this is difference between KSA Arabs and the other Arabs you mention is so pronounced.

I honestly don't understand it because we are supposed (majority of us at least and majority of the households) follow Islamic and Arab culture where such behavior is completely unacceptable. You don't see it among Christian Arabs either. Or Atheists/Agnostics. Not sure where it comes from. My guess is illiteracy and a lack of education and values. Because we have people who face the same trouble in terms of economic challenges, rejections by females and their families, personal frustration etc. in KSA and they do not behave like that. Or when in larger groups. And it occurs across the world globally - those issues with males. I believe that in China alone there are 50 million less women than males. Many other countries with a similar problem.

But in the case of KSA I think that there are several reasons for such behavior (and other related ones) being mostly unheard off. The history, close-knit community, tribal/clan structure (albeit weakening like everywhere else given the globalization and that every society resembles each other largely by now - at least among the youth - increasingly that is), strong honor codes, public ettiequte and in the past (since the Sahwa movement until fairly recently) segregation - at least in many public areas.

But if you look across the Arab world it is mostly confined to Egypt and Morocco. You don't see it in Libya next door, Tunisia or Algeria. Or Palestine or KSA next door (for Egypt) or Sudan.

We would need some Egyptian or Moroccan brother here to explain this phenomenon, albeit we are speaking about a tiny minority overall but it was/still is, predominant in Egypt and many tourists from abroad complain about it. In the case of Egypt, I mostly blame the illiteracy rates and poverty among the people. This has created a "scam society" among many where you are using every means to scam tourists, business partners etc. due to lack of prospects. Many frustrated people in general when life is hard.

Which is why I believe, among other things, that most of Yemen is addicted to khat, while South KSA next door has almost completely eradicated it and when consumed by locals it is consumed in moderate amounts and for special occasions not 24/7.

 

[_Arabia_]

Keep in mind immigration from Magreb to Spain are mainly men, few women. So they have a deficit of women from their countries here.

It does not excuse such behavior. It is completely unacceptable and one of the reasons why some Spaniards (rightly) complain about Moroccan/Maghrebi behavior and why you see the rise of VOX and other such parties.

Similarly with a too big proportion of male (youth) engaged in criminal activities. This is also common among certain Berber communities (in particular) in Spain and France.

For example most of the Hashish trade to Europe is run by Moroccan Riffian Berbers (good people overall though).

Same with much of the drug trade arriving to Europe through Belgium and Netherlands from South America. A few Moroccan families and clans run this "enterprise".

Of course many other criminal networks are involved as well (Albanian Mafia, Turkish/Kurdish "mafia"/clans/families, locals etc).

Is the Netherlands becoming a narco-state?

The murder of a prominent lawyer ended a common misconception: that drug cartels only kill their own.

www.bbc.com

But such behavior is unacceptable and I will never side with such bad apples regardless of any type of kinship.

Similarly we don't want criminal/unwanted elements in KSA/GCC whether fellow Arabs or non-Arabs or Muslims or non-Muslims.

 

[_Arabia_]

@BHAN85

Did you know that there are annually around 200.000 Saudi Arabian tourists that visit Spain?

Visiting Barcelona:

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Visiting Alhambra (built by Saudi Arabian (Najdi/Hejazi dynasties - last ruling Muslim Arab dynasty in Iberia/Spain - Emirate of Granada was ruled by an Arab dynasty from Saudi Arabia):

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Nasrid dynasty - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Final ruler who died in 1533 in modern-day Morocco (Fes):

Muhammad XI of Granada - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

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Another interesting anecdote. While most of the world (outside of England) are obsessed about English football (Premier League) most football fans in KSA and much of the Arab world, mostly follow Spanish football and Barça and Real are the by far most popular foreign clubs.

Spain is also seen as the most similar European country and probably the favorite one by most neutrals in general.

 

[Sinan]

I get it most Saudi Arabian women (and Arab women in general - in particular if they stay fit and take care of themselves) are objectively speaking good looking for the most part and sought after globally, but if you are dressing not very modestly and going around in the West late at night, you are bound to encounter men who will make moves on you.

Most men will be able to behave but there will always be a minority of locals and even fellow Arabs (as can be seen - the individuals in Spain have an Moroccan Arabic accent so probably Spanish-Moroccans) - and they clearly quickly realized (by looks alone) that they were Arab women.

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That is why decency, modesty and respect for yourself is important.

Dude that's not a woman, it's a walking plastic.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

It seems recorded in Madrid, Gran Via street.

The stalker seems to be Moroccan, it's not Spanish.

Anyway, women can wear how they want here, and if someone becomes really a problem, call police.

And BTW Arab women when they wear like westerners, they look very like South Spain women from Andalucia.

Portuguese seems to have more MENA influence than Spaniards who tend to resemble more to the southern French.

 

[_Arabia_]

Dude that's not a woman, it's a walking plastic.

Not an expert in this regard (plastic surgery etc. that many women engage in on a global scale nowadays) but she does not appear to have done much if anything? Not the typical bimbo/walking plastic that you can easily spot from a far. Lost similar to her friend/sister/cousin (or whatever it is) who does not seem to have done anything or much either. But again, I am not an expert maybe you can spot something here.

Portuguese seems to have more MENA influence than Spaniards who tend to resemble more to the southern French.

Portuguese cluster with South Spaniards who on average have around 15% Arab/Middle Eastern admixture. Rest of Spain it is on average 10%. Much of Spanish DNA (and that of South Europe in general and Europe), derives from Neolithic farmers originally from the Arab world. That is where most of the European DNA derives from. Rest is steppe (Indo-European) from modern-day South Russia mainly. Which itself originated from Anatolia and before that Arab world and before that Africa.

But yes, I have also noticed that the average Portuguese is looking quite swarthy on average. But they also have a lot of people originally from former Portuguese colonies across the world and many Portuguese mixed with locals from former Portuguese colonies just to return to Portugal when they lost those colonies. Last one was Macao in 1999, if I recall.

A bit similar to how many Omanis (that were mixed) with Sindhis (Pakistanis), Iranians (Baloch, Iranian Arabs, Persians), Swahili African speakers in Kenya, Tanzania, Zanzibar etc. (all former areas of the world that the Sultan of Oman controlled until not long ago in the case of Zanzibar 1960's and Gwadar (Pakistan) was sold to Pakistan in 1958.

Gwadar Purchase - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultanate_of_Zanzibar (1964).

The Omani royal family is a good example of that, interestingly enough. Some Circassian (recent) mixed in too. If you live long enough in area x or y, you ultimately will intermarry with locals.

I believe that the same thing has happened with Chinese (ancient as well as newer ones) communities in places like Thailand, Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia. Many (especially old Chinese communities) have intermarried with locals by now. At least partially.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Portuguese cluster with South Spaniards who on average have around 15% Arab/Middle Eastern admixture. Rest of Spain it is on average 10%. Much of Spanish DNA (and that of South Europe in general and Europe), arrives from Neolithic farmers originally from the Arab world. That is where most of the European DNA derives from. Rest is Steppe (Indo-European) from modern-day South Russia mainly. Which itself originated from Anatolia and before that Arab world and before that Africa.

Most Spaniards also carry the Y-DNA R1b, but the haplogroup R is quite irrelevant to the modern autosomal DNA makeup of the modern Europeans.

Most Arabs are West Eurasians by both Y-DNA and mtDNA.

However, the Indo-Europeans are East Eurasian by its Y-DNA, and West Eurasian by its mtDNA.

The earliest Y-DNA carried by the Paleo-Europeans were C, then it got replaced by I (a sibling clade of the Arabic J), then R became the majority.

 

[_Arabia_]

Most Spaniards also carry the Y-DNA R1b, but the haplogroup R is quite irrelevant to the modern autosomal DNA makeup of the modern Europeans.

Most Arabs are West Eurasians by both Y-DNA and mtDNA.

However, the Indo-Europeans are East Eurasian by its Y-DNA, and West Eurasian by its mtDNA.

The earliest Y-DNA carried by the Paleo-Europeans were C, then it got replaced by I (a sibling clade of the Arabic J), then R became the majority.

How do mainland Chinese people (Han Chinese and other minorities) and Chinese in the Western world view ancient and more modern (left mainland China 3-4 generations ago) Chinese-origin people from Thailand, Vietnam, Indonesia, Singapore, Malaysia and elsewhere?

Is there any exposure or interest in them? Or are many Chinese, like many Arabs are with our large diaspora in Latin America for instance, clueless about this part of Chinese history?

For instance I visited Thailand ages ago as a small child (with family) and I don't recall there ever being an entire Arab street in Bangkok for instance. I remember the local areas and the Chinatown but not much else.

Mark Wiens (who I believe is half Chinese - lives with a Thai or Chinese-Thai wife or Thai-Muslim/Malay wife - don't recall the exact details) lives in Thailand (if I recall from watching some of his videos) and he visited this Yemeni/Arabian restaurant in Bangkok that is apparently very popular.

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Smart Chinese dad. I should copy this:

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[ChineseTiger1986]

How do mainland Chinese people (Han Chinese and other minorities) and Chinese in the Western world view ancient and more modern (left mainland China 3-4 generations ago) Chinese-origin people from Thailand, Vietnam, Indonesia, Singapore, Malaysia and elsewhere?

Is there any exposure or interest in them? Or are many Chinese, like many Arabs are with our large diaspora in Latin America for instance, clueless about this part of Chinese history?

For instance I visited Thailand ages ago as a small child (with family) and I don't recall there ever being an entire Arab street in Bangkok for instance. I remember the local areas and the Chinatown but not much else.

Mark Wiens (who I believe is half Chinese - lives with a Thai or Chinese-Thai wife or Thai-Muslim/Malay wife - don't recall the exact details) lives in Thailand (if I recall from watching some of his videos) and he visited this Yemeni/Arabian restaurant in Bangkok that is apparently very popular.

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Smart Chinese dad. I should copy this:

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Most Mainland Chinese view them as the oversea Chinese diaspora whose origin mostly traced back to the coastal region of the Southeast China.

Some of them are still loyal to China by heart, while some others no longer consider themselves Chinese just like Singapore.

 

[_Arabia_]

Most Mainland Chinese view them as the oversea Chinese diaspora whose origin mostly traced back to the coastal region of the Southeast China.

Some of them are still loyal to China by heart, while some others no longer consider themselves Chinese just like Singapore.

The Chinese Lee family in Singapore, despite certain disagreements with Chinese policies, are well-respected in Singapore and the first family of Singapore.

Lee family (Singapore) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

BTW, did you know, that Singapore was settled by Arab traders originally from modern-day KSA and Yemen? Arabs used to own 80% of all the land in Singapore. That was before Singapore became modern Singapore and the success story that it is largely today - at least economically.

Arab Singaporeans - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

AramcoWorld : The Arab Traders of Singapore

https://www.tripadvisor.dk/Attraction_Review-g294265-d324757-Reviews-Arab_Street-Singapore.html

Surprised that Thailand is the number 1 country, outside of China, with the largest Chinese diaspora. Apparently.

Overseas Chinese - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

However now that I think about it, I once read that the Thai royal family is of partial Chinese origin. Their origin is supposedly from Northern Thailand so it makes sense.

What I recently discovered (or rather rediscovered) as well is that East Asians (Chinese, Koreans and Japanese) have ancient clans (family names) and tribes to this day. Albeit kinship (like the Arab ones) are not always an exact science due to adoptions into the clan, off-spring taking the surname of the mother at one point in time etc.

Also interesting that many of the most popular Chinese surnames and less popular ones (Han Chinese) claim ancestry from former Chinese emperors and mythical figures in Chinese mythology.

I think that the ancestral shrines in China are related to this or is that a Confucian tradition - confucianism itself must surely be based on pre-Confucian Han Chinese traditions and beliefs as well, at least partially?

Are the ancestral shrines in China and their veneration/visiting related to pre-Confucian traditions and beliefs or is it a Confucian or maybe Buddhist tradition? Or where does this tradition derive from in the Chinese and East Asian context?

I am aware that such practices were practiced in the Arab world in the past too and much of the world in fact.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

The Chinese Lee family in Singapore, despite certain disagreements with Chinese policies, are well-respected in Singapore and the first family of Singapore.

Lee family (Singapore) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

BTW, did you know, that Singapore was settled by Arab traders originally from modern-day KSA and Yemen? Arabs used to own 80% of all the land in Singapore. That was before Singapore became modern Singapore and the success story that it is largely today - at least economically.

Arab Singaporeans - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

AramcoWorld : The Arab Traders of Singapore

https://www.tripadvisor.dk/Attraction_Review-g294265-d324757-Reviews-Arab_Street-Singapore.html

Surprised that Thailand is the number 1 country, outside of China, with the largest Chinese diaspora. Apparently.

Overseas Chinese - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

However now that I think about it, I once read that the Thai royal family is of partial Chinese origin. Their origin is supposedly from Northern Thailand so it makes sense.

What I recently discovered (or rather rediscovered) as well is that East Asians (Chinese, Koreans and Japanese) have ancient clans (family names) and tribes to this day. Albeit kinship (like the Arab ones) are not always an exact science due to adoptions into the clan, off-spring taking the surname of the mother at one point in time etc.

Also interesting that many of the most popular Chinese surnames and less popular ones (Han Chinese) claim ancestry from former Chinese emperors and mythical figures in Chinese mythology.

I think that the ancestral shrines in China are related to this or is that a Confucian tradition - confucianism itself must surely be based on pre-Confucian Han Chinese traditions and beliefs as well, at least partially?

Are the ancestral shrines in China and their veneration/visiting related to pre-Confucian traditions and beliefs or is it a Confucian or maybe Buddhist tradition? Or where does this tradition derive from in the Chinese and East Asian context?

I am aware that such practices were practices in the Arab world in the past too and much of the world in fact.

The Thai Royal family might have Chinese blood, but they are not very pro-China by heart and being deeply westernized.

However, recently they are seeking a closer relationship with China not by embracing their ancestry, but to make more pragmatic approach amid a rising China.

BTW, the Thai people themselves originated from the Tai people from the Southwest China.

Tai peoples - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

BTW, the Lee/Li family from Singapore is being heavily disliked/despised by most Chinese from mainland or oversea, since they are self-hating their own Chinese ancestry and desperately wants to be associated with the western whites.

And China's pre-Confucianism philosophy was the Legalism, and the ancient China under Legalism was much more ruthless and brutal than the Confucianized China.

Legalism (Chinese philosophy) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And China's true indigenous religion is Taoism where the symbol of Yin Yang derived from.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taoism

Many westerners have often mistaken the symbol of Yin Yang as Buddhism, but it belongs to Taoism in fact.

Overall, Taoism is spiritual and philosophical religion that heavily emphasizes on the cycle and balance of the nature.

I would say that the rise of the Confucianism has eventually weakened those powerful Chinese clans/big powerful families that being contemporary from the Greco-Roman era.

And the later Chinese emperors and high ranked officials have become much more grassrooted compared to its early counterpart.

 

[BHAN85]

Portuguese seems to have more MENA influence than Spaniards who tend to resemble more to the southern French.

Yeah, it depends of what part of Spain we're talking about it.

I talked about South Spain.

You can see that difference in Spanish people origin in the language more clearly too.

In Spanish language we have pair of words with exactly same meaning, but different origin: Latin and Arabic.

And in some parts of Spain most people use the word of Arabic origin (South Spain), and in the rest the word of Latin Origin.

e.g of those pair of words:
Olive: Oliva (Latin), Aceituna (Arabic)
Scorpion: Escorpion (Latin), Alacran (Arabic).
Lizard: Lagarto (Latin), Fardacho (Arabic)

And so on.