BRICS News and Discussions

[j_hungary]

The question of whether to end the dollar system has nothing to do with India.

The dollar derives its status from its ability to buy industrial goods and resources, and the dollar system will end only if a few of the most powerful industrial and resource countries stop accepting dollars.

Of the BRICS countries, the ones that can threaten the dollar's position are countries like China, Russia, and Saudi Arabia, not India. What does India threaten the dollar with? Getting Indians in telephone call centers to not accept dollars as wages?

Indian netizens should consciously stop discussing this topic, it has nothing to do with India.

This is COMPLETELY wrong......

The strength of dollar is itself as a commodity, you can literally trade dollar into value (And I don't mean you can buy stuff with USD) which itself is the value.

Look at it like a baseball card, the value of the baseball card is the card itself, not the piece of paper that make the card, it worth nothing like 20 cents, then you come to the term with the player, the rarity of the card and the edition, just taking one factor out won't give that card its value. That's why a 1st edition original Babe Ruth card printed in 1930 worth a dime in 1930, and 6 million in 2022

Take your highlighted example, if industrial power stop accepting USD, you still need to convert whatever currency you use to whatever currency the other country is buying, saying Brazil is buying a bunch of TCL TV from China, even if China and Brazil both refused to use USD to settle the transaction, they can't give you Lira directly and you pay off your worker in factory in China, you need to convert Lira into RMB, and that conversion WILL go thru USD because both bank in Brazil and China don't have enough Lira and RMB to make that conversion (Well, they probably will have enough if we are just talking about THIS particular transaction, but won't be if we are getting them all completely), you will still be paying USD.

In fact, that alone is the reason why USD is so dominant, you are talking about 7 Trillion of Dollars being processed a day (7.506 trillion daily turn over) in forex alone.



You don't get remotely 1/10 of this daily turnover for combined industrial output for the ENTIRE WORLD.....The world COMBINED GDP is roughly 100 trillion a year, that's 0.27 Trillion a day



The volume and the convertibility ARE the strength of the USD, not their purchasing power. In economic term, any transaction is basically an economic hostage held by US Federal Bank for 36 hours (The time it needs to clear an international transaction). And you know why the world are willingly being held hostage for 36 hours? That's because if this is done in any other currency, it will take weeks, if not month, are you going to be okay if you sold something and only get the payment month later?

You want to destroy USD? Get a currency that can convert more easily and more abundant than USD that you can use for international transfer, then you will be able to dethrone the USD.

 

[hephaestus]

This is COMPLETELY wrong......

The strength of dollar is itself as a commodity, you can literally trade dollar into value (And I don't mean you can buy stuff with USD) which itself is the value.

Look at it like a baseball card, the value of the baseball card is the card itself, not the piece of paper that make the card, it worth nothing like 20 cents, then you come to the term with the player, the rarity of the card and the edition, just taking one factor out won't give that card its value. That's why a 1st edition original Babe Ruth card printed in 1930 worth a dime in 1930, and 6 million in 2022

Take your highlighted example, if industrial power stop accepting USD, you still need to convert whatever currency you use to whatever currency the other country is buying, saying Brazil is buying a bunch of TCL TV from China, even if China and Brazil both refused to use USD to settle the transaction, they can't give you Lira directly and you pay off your worker in factory in China, you need to convert Lira into RMB, and that conversion WILL go thru USD because both bank in Lira and China don't have enough Lira and RMB to make that conversion (Well, they probably will have enough if we are just talking about THIS particular transaction, but won't be if we are getting them all completely), you will still be paying USD.

In fact, that alone is the reason why USD is so dominant, you are talking about 7 Trillion of Dollars being processed a day (7.506 trillion daily turn over) in forex alone.

View attachment 75471

You don't get remotely 1/10 of this daily turnover for combined industrial output for the ENTIRE WORLD.....

The volume and the convertibility ARE the strength of the USD, not their purchasing power. In economic term, any transaction is basically an economic hostage held by US Federal Bank for 36 hours (The time it needs to clear an international transaction). And you know why the world are willingly being held hostage for 36 hours? That's because if this is done in any other currency, it will take weeks, if not month, are you going to be okay if you sold something and only get the payment month later?

You want to destroy USD? Get a currency that can convert more easily and more abundant than USD that you can use for international transfer, then you will be able to dethrone the USD.

Brilliantly explained. Thank you!

 

[Pataliputra]

If India, Russia, and China can agree on a common currency, it would be a major achievement. Trade among these three countries alone could elevate the BRICS currency to a global level. Trade between India and China alone exceeds $118 billion USD and is expected to surpass $500 billion in the future.

 

[MH.Yang]

This is COMPLETELY wrong......

The strength of dollar is itself as a commodity, you can literally trade dollar into value (And I don't mean you can buy stuff with USD) which itself is the value.

Look at it like a baseball card, the value of the baseball card is the card itself, not the piece of paper that make the card, it worth nothing like 20 cents, then you come to the term with the player, the rarity of the card and the edition, just taking one factor out won't give that card its value. That's why a 1st edition original Babe Ruth card printed in 1930 worth a dime in 1930, and 6 million in 2022

Take your highlighted example, if industrial power stop accepting USD, you still need to convert whatever currency you use to whatever currency the other country is buying, saying Brazil is buying a bunch of TCL TV from China, even if China and Brazil both refused to use USD to settle the transaction, they can't give you Lira directly and you pay off your worker in factory in China, you need to convert Lira into RMB, and that conversion WILL go thru USD because both bank in Brazil and China don't have enough Lira and RMB to make that conversion (Well, they probably will have enough if we are just talking about THIS particular transaction, but won't be if we are getting them all completely), you will still be paying USD.

In fact, that alone is the reason why USD is so dominant, you are talking about 7 Trillion of Dollars being processed a day (7.506 trillion daily turn over) in forex alone.

View attachment 75471

You don't get remotely 1/10 of this daily turnover for combined industrial output for the ENTIRE WORLD.....The world COMBINED GDP is roughly 100 trillion a year, that's 0.27 Trillion a day

View attachment 75482

The volume and the convertibility ARE the strength of the USD, not their purchasing power. In economic term, any transaction is basically an economic hostage held by US Federal Bank for 36 hours (The time it needs to clear an international transaction). And you know why the world are willingly being held hostage for 36 hours? That's because if this is done in any other currency, it will take weeks, if not month, are you going to be okay if you sold something and only get the payment month later?

You want to destroy USD? Get a currency that can convert more easily and more abundant than USD that you can use for international transfer, then you will be able to dethrone the USD.

Currency needs an anchor, money that can't buy anything is worthless.

If the dollar can't buy industrial goods and resources, then who needs it?

 

[j_hungary]

Currency needs an anchor, money that can't buy anything is worthless.

If the dollar can't buy industrial goods and resources, then who needs it?

Again, this is what you don't get. Currency not just are being used to buy and sell stuff.

US Dollar is anchoring on their availability, not to buy stuff, it was anchoring on your need to get the transaction settle ASAP, not just purchasing goods and resource, but ALL Transaction, from paying off your mortgage to sending money from oversea to your parent to federal bank and central bank around the world buying and selling USD to maintain their interest rate. EVERYTHING that involving you need to move money from one country to another, that's how USD got involved, you need a steady stream of currency to constantly buy and sell and you can get it done in the shortest time you can, that's why you need your currency

This is simply because of the fact that you don't spend anything other than your own currency at home, you need a base where you can buy and sell your own currency (for import and export if you are talking about purchasing power) constantly so it won't get run out. That's the issue here, and the world are using USD because of that, not because it can use to buy stuff.

As I said, for example, using the Brazilian importer buying TCL TV from China, the Brazilian guy pay in Lira (The currency in Brazil) it HAS TO converted to RMB so TCL can spend it in China (Pay off employee, buy resource and such) the problem is, there are not enough Lira and RMB to support daily transaction which mean the bank in Brazil would have to buy other currency and then use it to buy RMB over a period of time, so TCL can receive the payment in RMB, because any Lira used in this transaction will leave Brazil and will be holding in China until a reciprocate transaction going the other way around, and that demand a degree of currency Brazil and China do not have if you are talking about world wide daily level, that's why forex come into play, and that is the reason why USD is strong, because it takes an average of 36 hours to clear that conversion, if you based on Lira and RMB alone, it will take weeks or months to find enough currency on both end to complete this transaction. Do you think TCL can wait for weeks or months to pay their employee??

The same thing happens in the aforementioned example happened to EVERY OTHER TRANSACTION whether or not they are used to buy anything from any country, that's why USD itself become a commodity.

 

[muhammed45]

To fully comprehend how insanely wealthy the US is, when you add up all the BRICs member GDPs, they STILL cant surpass US GDP.

To be further mind blown, BRICs population is 3.6 billion people versus a US population of 335 million. That’s almost a 3.3B population advantage which still can’t overcome US GDP.

The US ability to unlock wealth is unmatched in human history.

Yeah US the bastard nation of Anglo Saxon invaders is the biggest fraud of human kind history. With money printing machines

I do not blame your bastard nation for this misery imposed on humanity, it is stupidity of other nations that has led to this. Making a toilet paper printed out of thin air the reserve currency is like inviting a thief to your banks with welcome by a red carpet.

 

[Dalit]

If all the other members agree to Pakistan's application and India is the only one against, then it is the odd man out against the BRICS+ group.

India is the odd man in BRICS. Let alone BRICS+.

The fact that India is a hardcore anti-China Western ally and a member of the QUAD is itself an anomoly. India literally belongs in the other camp.

 

[RHCP]

This is COMPLETELY wrong......

The strength of dollar is itself as a commodity, you can literally trade dollar into value (And I don't mean you can buy stuff with USD) which itself is the value.

Look at it like a baseball card, the value of the baseball card is the card itself, not the piece of paper that make the card, it worth nothing like 20 cents, then you come to the term with the player, the rarity of the card and the edition, just taking one factor out won't give that card its value. That's why a 1st edition original Babe Ruth card printed in 1930 worth a dime in 1930, and 6 million in 2022

Take your highlighted example, if industrial power stop accepting USD, you still need to convert whatever currency you use to whatever currency the other country is buying, saying Brazil is buying a bunch of TCL TV from China, even if China and Brazil both refused to use USD to settle the transaction, they can't give you Lira directly and you pay off your worker in factory in China, you need to convert Lira into RMB, and that conversion WILL go thru USD because both bank in Brazil and China don't have enough Lira and RMB to make that conversion (Well, they probably will have enough if we are just talking about THIS particular transaction, but won't be if we are getting them all completely), you will still be paying USD.

In fact, that alone is the reason why USD is so dominant, you are talking about 7 Trillion of Dollars being processed a day (7.506 trillion daily turn over) in forex alone.

View attachment 75471

You don't get remotely 1/10 of this daily turnover for combined industrial output for the ENTIRE WORLD.....The world COMBINED GDP is roughly 100 trillion a year, that's 0.27 Trillion a day

View attachment 75482

The volume and the convertibility ARE the strength of the USD, not their purchasing power. In economic term, any transaction is basically an economic hostage held by US Federal Bank for 36 hours (The time it needs to clear an international transaction). And you know why the world are willingly being held hostage for 36 hours? That's because if this is done in any other currency, it will take weeks, if not month, are you going to be okay if you sold something and only get the payment month later?

You want to destroy USD? Get a currency that can convert more easily and more abundant than USD that you can use for international transfer, then you will be able to dethrone the USD.

Can we make it so this post shows up automatically everytime someone opens another thread about new world order, new currency yada yada?

 

[j_hungary]

Can we make it so this post shows up automatically everytime someone opens another thread about new world order, new currency yada yada?

That's because most of these people have no idea how economy and currency works......

There were 2 attempts on the world try to move on from USD post Bretton Wood. One is IMF Special Drawing Right (SDR) in the currency basket, which assigned a % of different currency in the currency basket and member can trade that SDR (think of that as a nest egg made up by different currency) with Forex.

Special drawing rights - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Another time is a global currency certificate called Bancor (Which roughly based on bank gold in French).

Bancor - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

and there is a reason why both time failed..............

 

[Dalit]

Yeah US the bastard nation of Anglo Saxon invaders is the biggest fraud of human kind history. With money printing machines

I do not blame your bastard nation for this misery imposed on humanity, it is stupidity of other nations that has led to this. Making a toilet paper printed out of thin air the reserve currency is like inviting a thief to your banks with welcome by a red carpet.

BRICS minus India is ready to deal with America. No doubt that BRICS is a set of nations opposed to US hegemony.

 

[The SC]

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[Muji.Iqbal]

I support the Yuan being used as an alternative to the Dollar.

The American leaders think they can do wrong and get away with it. The atheistic (that they fear nothing) leaders of USA believe they can do wrong and get away with it.

The world has every right to condemn and expose USA when USA does wrong.

 

[ST1976]

we would welcome 'Chinese Yuan' as the world currency
.

https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/india-frowns-paying-russian-oil-with-yuan-some-payments-held-up-sources-say-2023-10-16/

NEW DELHI, Oct 16 (Reuters) - The Indian government's discomfort over letting state-controlled refiners pay for Russian oil imports with Chinese currency has held up the payment for at least seven cargoes, people with direct knowledge of the matter said.

BRICS will not create a currency, but the yuan may become convertible ​

December 2, 2024

The idea of a common BRICS currency has been discussed for a long time, but the member countries still take no concrete, serious steps to establish a true alternative to the U.S. dollar. Donald Trump’s warning to BRICS that he would impose 100% tariffs if they abandon the dollar is more targeted toward the American audience. This was commented on by Nikolay Stoykov, managing partner at Alaric Securities, on the program “Business Start” with host Hristo Nikolov.

Within the BRICS group, “only China has a currency that is stable in the long term, with relatively low interest rates, and there is a significant alignment between the yuan and other global currencies. What prevents the yuan from becoming a global currency is simply that China does not want to allow it. An alternative to the dollar is being sought, but Russia drives this search. If China truly wanted an alternative to the dollar, it would have made the yuan convertible,” Stoykov noted.

The U.S. dollar’s position as the leading global reserve currency brings a degree of stability in terms of interest rates and helps American companies conduct business worldwide. However, the dollar’s global market dominance has not strengthened in recent years, with the euro increasing its share at the expense of the Japanese yen and British pound, Stoykov said.

Beijing likely does not want the yuan to be fully convertible to maintain complete control over its currency. However, this will eventually happen because the economy will grow large enough to mitigate any negative currency effects, Stoykov believes.

“I’m not very optimistic about a new BRICS currency, but I am relatively optimistic that sooner or later, the Chinese yuan will become convertible and start trading at levels close to the euro. I’m not convinced it will displace the dollar,” he added.

Donald Trump has nominated prominent investor Scott Besant for Treasury Secretary, a move widely seen as pro-business, with expectations of reduced regulations. Most analysts predict that the tariffs Trump frequently mentions will not have significant consequences for trade balances; these tariffs serve more as a message for domestic consumption and a threat to foreign partners. Imposing 100% tariffs on all Chinese goods imported to the U.S. would be very damaging to the American economy—a fact understood by everyone, including Trump, Stoykov added.

The euro is undervalued compared to the dollar and has the potential to rise by 4%-5% in the coming months, Stoykov said.

“I don’t anticipate much volatility. We’re all waiting for the new president, Trump, to take office and reveal his policies, so I don’t expect the dollar to continue strengthening in the next three months. I anticipate the euro to appreciate gradually.”

You can watch the video to see how markets are reacting to the political crisis in France and whether global trade wars will escalate.

BRICS will not create a currency, but the yuan may become convertible

Nikolay Stoykov, Managing Partner at Alaric Securities on ‘Business Start’ The idea of a common BRICS currency has been discussed for a long time, but the member countries still take no concrete, serious steps to ...

alaricsecurities.com

The Yuan could be an alternative to the Dollar.

Pakistan should also be in BRICS as well.

Currency needs an anchor, money that can't buy anything is worthless.

If the dollar can't buy industrial goods and resources, then who needs it?

 

[ST1976]

we would welcome 'Chinese Yuan' as the world currency
.

https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/india-frowns-paying-russian-oil-with-yuan-some-payments-held-up-sources-say-2023-10-16/

NEW DELHI, Oct 16 (Reuters) - The Indian government's discomfort over letting state-controlled refiners pay for Russian oil imports with Chinese currency has held up the payment for at least seven cargoes, people with direct knowledge of the matter said.

BRICS Payments in Chinese Yuan Surpasses the US Dollar by 2.5% ​

here it says India prefers to trade in Chinese Yuan as compared to US$.

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.

I support the Yuan being used as an alternative to the Dollar.

The American leaders think they can do wrong and get away with it. The atheistic (that they fear nothing) leaders of USA believe they can do wrong and get away with it.

The world has every right to condemn and expose USA when USA does wrong.

Currency needs an anchor, money that can't buy anything is worthless.

If the dollar can't buy industrial goods and resources, then who needs it?

 

[Muji.Iqbal]

At BRICS summit, Russia to push to end dollar dominance​

Gleb Bryanski
Wed 16 October 2024 at 3:42 pm BST·3-min read

FILE PHOTO: FILE PHOTO: Russian President Vladimir Putin speaks at the BRICS Parliamentary Forum in Saint Petersburg
By Gleb Bryanski

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia is seeking to convince BRICS countries to build an alternative platform for international payments that would be immune to Western sanctions when it hosts the group's leaders at a summit next week.

President Vladimir Putin is keen to build up BRICS - which has expanded to include Egypt, Ethiopia, Iran and the United Arab Emirates as well as Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa - as a powerful counterweight to the West in global politics and trade.


The Oct. 22-24 summit in the city of Kazan is being presented by Moscow as evidence that Western efforts to isolate Russia have failed. It wants other countries to work with it to overhaul the global financial system and end the dominance of the U.S. dollar.

Central to that is the proposal for a new payments system based on a network of commercial banks linked to each other through the BRICS central banks, according to a document prepared by Russia's finance ministry and central bank, distributed to journalists ahead of the summit.

The system would use blockchain technology to store and transfer digital tokens backed by national currencies. This, in turn, would then allow those currencies to be easily and securely exchanged, bypassing the need for dollar transactions.

Russia sees it as a way to resolve increasing problems in settling trade payments, even with friendly countries such as China, where local banks fear they could be hit by secondary sanctions by the United States.

Yaroslav Lissovolik, founder of the BRICS+ Analytics think tank, said the creation of such a system was technically feasible but would take time.

"After the significant expansion of BRICS membership last year, the attainment of consensus is arguably harder," he said.

GRAIN EXCHANGE

The Russian document accuses existing institutions such as the International Monetary Fund of serving the interests of Western countries and says they need "improvements to better serve the evolving global economy". Russian Finance Minister Anton Siluanov called on BRICS members last week to create an alternative to the IMF.

Among other initiatives to facilitate trade and investment, Russia is also proposing to create a "BRICS Clear" platform to settle trade in securities.

The document calls for better communication between credit rating agencies in member countries and for a common ratings methodology, but stops short of proposing a joint BRICS rating agency, an idea that the group had discussed earlier.

Russia, the world's top wheat exporter, is also urging the creation of a BRICS grain trading exchange, backed by a pricing agency, to create an alternative to Western bourses where international prices for agricultural commodities are set.

But in a sign that Moscow will need to work hard to push its proposals through, most BRICS members sent only lower-level officials - not finance ministers or central bankers - to a preparatory meeting last week.

For the summit itself, Russia says it expects to welcome leaders from all nine BRICS members and about 15 other countries keen to work as partners with the group, as well as the foreign minister of Saudi Arabia, which has been invited to join.

"BRICS is a structure that cannot be ignored," Kremlin aide Yuri Ushakov told reporters last week.

(Additional reporting by Vladimir Soldatkin, editing by Mark Trevelyan and Bernadette Baum)