Clashes with Afghan Taliban break out again: Taliban removing fence and covering for TTP infiltration

[Nilgiri]

Sir, how is it determined which goals are both objective and rational?

I am taking the convo to this thread to flesh out further, it will get off topic for this one. Interested knowledgeable worthies can join us there too if they would like.

What book are you reading?

We've obviously read a lot of the same kind of material that's influenced us heavily in similar directions of thinking heh. What you describe is, the way I see it, veering of the US to more heavyset statism (the shift of things to the federal govt from the state level it was at prior to...

defencepk.com

 

[Joe Shearer]

If anything, British were more favourable to Bharat in dividing the land which isn't surprising considering Mountbatten was close to Nehru.

This brilliant explanation, side by side with the other that the same Congress leadership that pressed for partition simultaneously prayed for the collapse of the Pakistani state and its absorption by India.

We need effective face palm emojis to deal with such cockamamie arguments.

 

[Hopefully Pessimistic]

Only a racial supremacist will take offense to that historical fact. Are you a punjabi or a musalman?

I'm from Kashmir as you can see from my name

And ethnicity and religion are two separate things that do not contradict, in fact lineage is a very important thing in Islam, but insecure mahajarjeet seems to want to cope by rejecting the existence of ethnicity among Muslims

 

[EternalMortal]

This brilliant explanation, side by side with the other that the same Congress leadership that pressed for partition simultaneously prayed for the collapse of the Pakistani state and its absorption by India.

We need effective face palm emojis to deal with such cockamamie arguments.

If you disagree that Mountbatten favoured Congress, no prob. We can simply add this to the list.

I blame myself for succumbing to an outstanding Pakistani member and getting wrapped up in this delusional discussion.

Jinnah, and reluctantly, the League, due to his bludgeoning, had accepted the three sections under a weak centre formula of the cabinet commission. So, earlier, had the Congress.

This is when trouble broke out within the Congress. Most of those who had served in the joint administration of certain provinces, joint with the Muslim League, were bitterly opposed to exposing themselves to the tantrums and daily showdowns that had taken place, and were in a turbulent state. It was at this time that Nehru declared in a press conference on the 10th of June 1946 that delegates to the Constituent Assembly planned to be formed to frame a constitution for the country would be free to vote according to their consciences. Jinnah vetoed this and declared for Pakistan without further discussion.

It is worth noting that Jinnah had agreed to work within a common national boundary with the despised Hindus that are constantly pilloried by exuberant and utterly ill -informed members here. All that belligerence attributed to him never existed. He withdrew from the arrangement due to reasons of maintaining control over delegates to the constituent Assembly from the two Muslim majority sections, and not for any contemporary Dan-boy reason.

How I wish @SecularNationalist had never trailed his cape beguilingly, and that I had not succumbed and charged it headlong.

Too late.

Yes, cabinet mission plan was a last ditch effort by British to keep India united. Jinnah up till that point had been campaigning for a separate state. What Jinnah wanted was "Pakistan" a state where Muslims could live without Hindu domination & make laws according to Islam. He agreed to the plan b/c it satisfied almost all of his demands for "Pakistan" including the above & undivided Punjab & Bengal. Plus the party that agreed to it would form the interim gov. So it was a clever ploy by him to maximize what he could get at the time & perhaps salvage something b/w Muslims & Hindus.

This not only put the ML in a very favourable position in terms of what they were receiving but was also a test for Nehru & Congress to see whether Hindus would be willing to set aside their own desire for complete control & power in favour of unity & good relations with Muslims. Turns out, they weren't willing to do so. Nehru rejected the plan & so Jinnah got his final answer and was left with no other option but to continue his demand for separation.

 

[Joe Shearer]

If you disagree that Mountbatten favoured Congress, no prob. We can simply add this to the list.

No, I donI disagree, since clearly you are a modern day Alexander Jowett.
Add it to your list, if you wish; you seem to be at 45 degrees, and there are clearly glorious prospects ahead for all of us transfixed onlookers.

Yes, cabinet mission plan was a last ditch effort by British to keep India united. Jinnah up till that point had been campaigning for a separate state. What Jinnah wanted was "Pakistan" a state where Muslims could live without Hindu domination & make laws according to Islam. He agreed to the plan b/c it satisfied almost all of his demands for "Pakistan" including the above & undivided Punjab & Bengal. Plus the party that agreed to it would form the interim gov. So it was a clever ploy by him to maximize what he could get at the time & perhaps salvage something b/w Muslims & Hindus.

This not only put the ML in a very favourable position in terms of what they were receiving but was also a test for Nehru & Congress to see whether Hindus would be willing to set aside their own desire for complete control & power in favour of unity & good relations with Muslims. Turns out, they weren't willing to do so. Nehru rejected the plan & so Jinnah got his final answer and was left with no other option but to continue his demand for separation.

This matches my narrative exactly, except for some bells and whistles.

There is no evidence whatsoever that Jinnah intended this to be some kind of test. From all the published evidence, from all the interpretations of analysts of those events, it was a straightforward acceptance.

Only the conspiracy theorists who abound these days, those magicians who could look inside Jinnah's mind of 76 years ago, could possibly tell us with such authority what his private intentions and homes thinking were.

Do let us know when it is time to rip off your mask If you are a conspiracy theorist, or magician, or both.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I'm from Kashmir as you can see from my name

And ethnicity and religion are two separate things that do not contradict, in fact lineage is a very important thing in Islam, but insecure mahajarjeet seems to want to cope by rejecting the existence of ethnicity among Muslims

Not disagreeing with your important point, but there is a quibble.
Ethnicity is not the same as lineage. Lineage is the link between parents and children. It can meander across several ethnicities
Ethnicity, on the other hand, can be compromised by lineage. Parents from different ethnic roots are not uncommon.
Your assertion that religion has nothing to do with ethnicity is, of course, an impeccable statement.

 

[Hopefully Pessimistic]

Not disagreeing with your important point, but there is a quibble.
Ethnicity is not the same as lineage. Lineage is the link between parents and children. It can meander across several ethnicities
Ethnicity, on the other hand, can be compromised by lineage. Parents from different ethnic roots are not uncommon.
Your assertion that religion has nothing to do with ethnicity is, of course, an impeccable statement.

You're right although lineage is closely linked to ethnicity and I mentioned lineage specifically because Islam places a specific emphasis on that

 

[Joe Shearer]

You're right although lineage is closely linked to ethnicity and I mentioned lineage specifically because Islam places a specific emphasis on that

Ah, that is a special case.
Not being Muslim, it is preferable that it should not form part of my argument.
Your point is well taken.

 

[Mrc]

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[panzerfaust 3]

Look above someone from your country took a jibe at us that was unwarranted. He talked about identity crisis so I reminded you about the identity crisis you are facing. We are not the best but you aren't any better. But looks like few indian members including you here are hit hard by the truth. Learn to swallow the bitter pill.

I will ask this again do you feel you have the right to lecture us over the matters involving secularism and democracy?

Do you even know what identity crisis really is? Maybe ask you own aristocracy/ intellectual class

I think what we have in the centre is far better there is a rule of law in the country,
The democratic pillars are strong and the secularism may not be in the list of the present ruling party but I don't see a change in the basic structure of constitution

And for a change learn to find the truth and change your view as per the discovery

 

[panzerfaust 3]

Did anyone force you to ask questions?
After getting the answers and finding they don't suit you, why whine?
I am putting you on my ignore list.

It's kind of funny
I don't seem to have received any answers at all! And God knows why you have this tendency to be offended by some simple things / questions in this case and on top of that you painstakingly have to write all this - few remaining hours can't be wasted on this tripe !
I mean just look at the hypocrisy here ,If somehow we are not worthy of your answers then why not just ignore? You actually have to write that we are wasting your time by actually wasting your time?
And I am the one who's whining ?Riddle me that!

 

[SecularNationalist]

I will ask this again do you feel you have the right to lecture us over the matters involving secularism and democracy?

Do you even know what identity crisis really is? Maybe ask you own aristocracy/ intellectual class

I think what we have in the centre is far better there is a rule of law in the country,
The democratic pillars are strong and the secularism may not be in the list of the present ruling party but I don't see a change in the basic structure of constitution

And for a change learn to find the truth and change your view as per the discovery

Yes I have the right and I will continue to excercise my right to expose your hypocrisy. Let's call spade a spade dear.
Yes still your structure of democracy is strong and the variety of different Religions and ethnicities that exist in India kind of force India to be more secular as without it you can't function. But unfortunately ever since modi won its first election now India is heading in a single religious centric autocratic direction . The party leaders of opposition are being sent to jail on politically motivated charges against them. The candidates who are going to contest against Bjp are forced to withdraw from election using different tactics. Exactly the same thing that was done to lmran khan and PTI.
Your founding fathers never expected India to go in this direction . Today majority of your population believes in the ideology that murdered that founding father. You call gandhi your founding father,print his picture on your currency notes but admire his killer at the same time. That's the definition of identity crisis.
As @Joe Shearer has put you in his ignore list already I am going to do the same. Arguing with someone like you is a waste of time.

 

[panzerfaust 3]

Yes I have the right and I will continue to excercise my right to expose your hypocrisy. Let's call spade a spade dear.
Yes still your structure of democracy is strong and the variety of different Religions and ethnicities that exist in India kind of force India to be more secular as without it you can't function. But unfortunately ever since modi won its first election now India is heading in a single religious centric autocratic direction . The party leaders of opposition are being sent to jail on politically motivated charges against them. The candidates who are going to contest against Bjp are forced to withdraw from election using different tactics. Exactly the same thing that was done to lmran khan and PTI.
Your founding fathers never expected India to go in this direction . Today majority of your population believes in the ideology that murdered that founding father. You call gandhi your founding father,print his picture on your currency notes but admire his killer at the same time. That's the definition of identity crisis.
As @Joe Shearer has put you in his ignore list already I am going to do the same. Arguing with someone like you is a waste of time.

Let's just agree to disagree my friend

There's no need for further off topic discussion,
I do acknowledge that we have different viewpoints ,and I am choosing not to revert to your post

If you think I am disturbing your peace please feel free to ignore my posts

Adios!

 

[EternalMortal]

No, I donI disagree, since clearly you are a modern day Alexander Jowett.
Add it to your list, if you wish; you seem to be at 45 degrees, and there are clearly glorious prospects ahead for all of us transfixed onlookers.

No, I donI disagree, since clearly you are a modern day Alexander Jowett.
Add it to your list, if you wish; you seem to be at 45 degrees, and there are clearly glorious prospects ahead for all of us transfixed onlookers.



This matches my narrative exactly, except for some bells and whistles.

There is no evidence whatsoever that Jinnah intended this to be some kind of test. From all the published evidence, from all the interpretations of analysts of those events, it was a straightforward acceptance.

Only the conspiracy theorists who abound these days, those magicians who could look inside Jinnah's mind of 76 years ago, could possibly tell us with such authority what his private intentions and homes thinking were.

Do let us know when it is time to rip off your mask If you are a conspiracy theorist, or magician, or both.

In addition to a face-palm emoji, we should also add a rolling-eyes emoji for your idiotic snarky comments. Learn to speak to others without making snide remarks every other sentence. You may think of yourself as some big brain giga scholar but in reality you come off as an egotistical prick.

Secondly, you seem to be unable to read between the lines. When someone is giving something "one last chance" they are BY IMPLICATION carrying out a test. Just b/c Jinnah didn't tell Nehru he was testing him, put him in a classroom & give him 3 hours to write down his answer and then mark him, doesn't mean it wasn't a test.

I'll give you an example. You have one last chance to write a response to me that does not include a single snide remark otherwise you're going on my ignore list.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I'll give you an example. You have one last chance to write a response to me that does not include a single snide remark otherwise you're going on my ignore list.

What an awesome burden!
Am I allowed to ask for help, or is that restricted to EternalPricks?