Discussion: Electronic devices based attack in Lebanon

[LeGenD]

Useless words.

Russia has very good relations with Hungary. One phone call from Putin and the Hungarian government would have served up any collaborators in Hungary instead of protecting them.

I am glad that somebody pointed out an important fact. Hungary is one of the few European countries close to Russia. Hungary has no dispute with Israel either. Some naively think that foreign policy is zero sum game.

 

[Guru Dutt]

All companies collect data from customers, this is a global norm. You are given the option to read and accept terms or not use the product. This is how it is.

Initial reports are usually wrong or incomplete. Latest updates suggest that Taiwanese company did not provide pagers to Hezbollah, Israel provided pagers to Hezbollah. Mossad made the supply chain look very realistic and normal. This is stunning.

Sir its very old news in 94-97 i used to sell electronick type writers floppy disks asorted compouters and Pagers even then the main technology used to come from western europe , Japan , Taiwan and Israel specially for pagers as most of them used to be of Motorola later even became a booking agent of RGP paging service and later went on to sell Speed and Magic brands of cellular devices that became Airtel & essar or hutch now its vodaphone

now long srory short be it Pagers or be it social media or be it the core systems like cellular towers main tech came from or was developed in israel and still has controling stake with them no matter which country is using them even the worlds largest cellphone chip maker qualcomm has a major israeli stake if i am not wrong ... hope you get the point sirji... bruce willis ki movie life free or die hard yaad hai ya fir that pagasus spy software

 

[LeGenD]

Sir its very old news in 94-97 i used to sell electronick type writers floppy disks asorted compouters and Pagers even then the main technology used to come from western europe , Japan , Taiwan and Israel specially for pagers as most of them used to be of Motorola later even became a booking agent of RGP paging service and later went on to sell Speed and Magic brands of cellular devices that became Airtel & essar or hutch now its vodaphone

now long srory short be it Pagers or be it social media or be it the core systems like cellular towers main tech came from or was developed in israel and still has controling stake with them no matter which country is using them even the worlds largest cellphone chip maker qualcomm has a major israeli stake if i am not wrong ... hope you get the point sirji... bruce willis ki movie life free or die hard yaad hai ya fir that pagasus spy software

Hmm. Israel definitely has a high tech components industry. Many don't understand the value and leverage of having an industry of this kind for both right and wrong reasons.

 

[Tamerlane]

All companies collect data from customers, this is a global norm. You are given the option to read and accept terms or not use the product. This is how it is.

Yes, but most people don’t realize how private companies and governments have total access to their private information. Also, whereas one company, like Google, will only have data you generate on Google, like your travel history, email, YouTube, search history, etc a government agency will have your combined data from all your computing activity. Obviously, that data is available to Mossad when they decide to whack you.

 

[Developereo]

I dislike war in general but I think that some of the judgements are biased as well. Russians killed way more in Syria and got away with it. And all those who fought a war in Yemen created a significant humanitarian crisis there. What I see is that Israel no longer care about how it is judged in its matters, now it is fighting on its terms. Russians talking about humanity is ironic to the next level. Indeed, one wrong does not justify the other but the reality is what I stated above. All have arguments and biases.

This is not a question of bias but international law.

While it is true that other armies have killed civilians, they usually write them off as collateral damage or claim that they were terrorists. Those claims may be nonsense but, at least, they use that excuse to shrug off the civilian deaths.

What Israel did was indiscriminate targeting. They had no way of knowing if the person holding the pager was someone's child or even a reservist. It is illegal under international law to target reservists. This is the same as if someone rigged mobile phones to blow up if somone received a call from the Israeli ministry of defence. The person answering the call could be a reservist or someone's child.

What Israel did was a war crime, plain and simple.

My take is that other countries should offer Palestinians a chance to resettle and have peaceful life in their lands

This is what Israel wants and it rewards Israel for its brutality. It may be the short term solution but there is no way that Israel as a military colonial outpost can be allowed to get away with it. The Nazis were held to account decades later. Israel's turn will come.

 

[mythbuster]

I wager that the shipment of those pagers were 'intercepted' at some point and rigged. The explosions appear random. I may be wrong. Before issuing devices to military personnel, they must be checked thoroughly.

Yep , that's what I heard from very authentic source within couple of hours of the incident .

 

[j_hungary]

I just want to go back to the original topic. Help me understand the procurement process that Hezbollah may have gone through. Based on how the supply chain may have been hijacked and hungary and bulgaria were having mossad shell companies supplying such parts and material to Hezbollah, to whom did they place the order with?

Directly with the Japanese and Taiwanese manufacturers? Would they not have directly called them first to make sure everything was fine? What about the shipping manifest that comes into the Lebanese ports....would that not have indicated funny things based on the cargo movement?? I mean, I feel that there were numerous places where these checks and balances could have been made.

Second, replacing the batteries would have affected the life of the device which would have caused suspicions on at least the quality of the product and spurred into action an investigation with the manufacturer.

It is clear that Israel took advantage of this but this just seems like rookie mistakes on the part of Hezbollah.

Company from Taiwan and Japan won't deal with Hezbollah directly, as that circumventing the US and EU sanction, they are going to face heavy fine and loss of contract if they deal with Hezbollah direct.

Which mean any deal is done to and from Hezbollah would have to go thru 2 or 3 or more layer of intermediary, which is one or more of these intermediaries is infiltrated by the IDF in a similar fashion to how FBI flip darkweb.

MSN

Once they turn one of the intermediary, then you can flip the entire supply chain.

 

[LeGenD]

Yes, but most people don’t realize how private companies and governments have total access to their private information. Also, whereas one company, like Google, will only have data you generate on Google, like your travel history, email, YouTube, search history, etc a government agency will have your combined data from all your computing activity. Obviously, that data is available to Mossad when they decide to whack you.

Some companies give the option to customers to not record their activity or delete it anytime. Google gives this option to you. But a company must have user database to identify its customers and understand their needs and demands, a company will not do well in markets otherwise. User activity also have legal considerations such as to facilitate a criminal investigation if necessary.

Consider the example of Apple:

Legal - Apple Privacy Policy - Apple

www.apple.com

Apple has explained everything in that link.

But Apple is an industrial giant and can take a stand on some matters.

The FBI Wanted a Backdoor to the iPhone. Tim Cook Said No

The agency wanted to crack the iPhone of Syed Farook, a suspect in the 2015 San Bernardino shooting. The Apple CEO took a stand.

www.wired.com

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/14/apple-refuses-barr-request-to-unlock-pensacola-shooters-iphones.html

This is an area where Huawei was weak or had loopholes. But Xiaomi stood up to its principles.

PRIVACY POLICY

Xiaomi, a global company producing quality products at honest pricing.

www.mi.com

Xiaomi and data privacy—how secure are Chinese smartphones?

Data privacy on Xiaomi smartphones: How safe is my data when using a smartphone from Chinese Android manufacturer Xiaomi?

everphone.com

There can be a limit to how much a government can influence an industrial giant because it has economic leverage and principles.

So always check this information when you use a product. Never blanket assume that all are compromised coz they are Western origin.

Normal users have no issue. But those who are fighting a war are taking the risk knowingly, and anything can happen. From a stricly neutral standpoint.

Hezbollah is not using Apple, right? Plus we don't know what type of technology mossad has. Pagers are not cutting edge stuff but were assumed to be secure but Mossad infiltrated or manipulated the supply chain of Hezbollah.

 

[Developereo]

Plus we don't know what type of technology mossad has.

Plus, Mossad is not constrained by US or European laws.

Once any piece of information is in the cloud, you can kiss goodbye to confidentiality and assume it will be viewed by someone, regardless of whether it is Western or Eastern tech.

Once they turn one of the intermediary, then you can flip the entire supply chain.

Exactly.

I don't think Chinese products would be any safer than Western products if some intermediate link is compromised.

 

[Tamerlane]

Some companies give the option to customers to not record their activity or delete it anytime. Google gives this option to you. But a company must have user database to identify its customers and understand their needs and demands, a company will not do well in markets otherwise. User activity also have legal considerations such as to facilitate a criminal investigation if necessary.

You’re really given no choice in the matter. If you want to use computers you have to agree to let them collect and use your private data. Almost no one actually reads the privacy agreement.

Sometimes they don’t even tell you what they’re doing. A while ago I upgraded to Windows 11. After several months of using it I found that all my private data, eg. the Documents folder, was automatically being uploaded to Microsoft OneDrive. My local drive didn’t even have a copy of my Documents folder, it was all uploaded to Microsoft’s servers. I’m an experienced computer user and I still didn’t know what they were doing. I wasn’t told this was happening and wasn’t given the choice to opt out. They just transferred all my files to their own servers and that’s the default. Probably 99% of users don’t know it.

 

[Strider]

Company from Taiwan and Japan won't deal with Hezbollah directly, as that circumventing the US and EU sanction, they are going to face heavy fine and loss of contract if they deal with Hezbollah direct.

Which mean any deal is done to and from Hezbollah would have to go thru 2 or 3 or more layer of intermediary, which is one or more of these intermediaries is infiltrated by the IDF in a similar fashion to how FBI flip darkweb.

MSN

Once they turn one of the intermediary, then you can flip the entire supply chain.

Interesting. Seems like a lot of work setting up a shell company to make it look like a real intermediary. All that just for randomly exploding pagers. Doesn't appear too efficient to me even though it may be effective.

By the way, if an intermediary is found to be doing business with a sanctioned entity, that intermediary will get sanctioned as well. The same is updated in OFAC's database.

And that shell company will disappear without a trace. Wild....

 

[j_hungary]

Interesting. Seems like a lot of work setting up a shell company to make it look like a real intermediary. All that just for randomly exploding pagers. Doesn't appear too efficient to me even though it may be effective.

By the way, if an intermediary is found to be doing business with a sanctioned entity, that intermediary will get sanctioned as well. The same is updated in OFAC's database.

And that shell company will disappear without a trace. Wild....

It wasn't a big thing, all you need is 2 or 3 people and an address, and those people don't really need to be in the know. And you can set up hundreds of those entities in weeks, as long as you have the money.

That's the thing about shell/shill, once you are busted, you just close it and set up in another place. It depends on the intelligence level of the work, if you are just talking about a few thousand pager, I seriously doubt the connection run very deep. It probably at the level of what we refer to as "Prison Yard" level connection, ie, a friend of a friend's, or it can simply just pure business. If you are talking about Hezbollah wide or high-level target being killed in this, that probably would be another story.