European Defence News and Discussions

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

Why Rafale and not Eurofighter? Both are multi-role aren’t they

EF 2000 is more intended for air superiority (its specifications inspired F15 specifications) on the other hands Rafale is more emphasis on strike/CAS and stand off missiles launcher than a true air superiority jet

 

[Night Memory]

Lets be real - no shade on rafale but it is well known by now that Ukraine has become a den of funelling money to MIC.

From what i have gathered so far, the french are funding the planes through their own loans. Basically French tax payer money getting funnelled to Dassault outside of the defence budget.

 

[AZ_HighCountry]

He not Pakistani brother talk to him in English rather than pink urdu

That must be the Pak equivalent of gutter Spanish which many of us know as Mexican Spanish.

 

[Oscar]

Demand? Ukraine is going for used ones that too funded by US and subsidized by Europe. Like their F16s.

To be fair again - other than their own intelligence and planning failures that led to the Rafale being served up disadvantaged and unaware on the 7th - it was the only aircraft apart from 1-2 MKI and M2K sorties that actually was launching the piecemeal Scalp strike against Pakistan because it was the only one packing enough survivability to keep out of PAF CAP and SAM ranges.

The Rafale is a great aircraft - the Indians in their typical overconfidence and superiority assumptions screwed its utilization. That’s their cultural issue and less to do with the tool.

 

[awadkhalid]

"Once, a wise man said that the Rafale is a very potent aircraft if employed well."

 

[kubotabx23]

France's Dassault Rafale Is the Fighter Now Every Air Force Wants

Summary: The French-made Dassault Rafale is experiencing a surge in global demand, challenging the dominance of the American F-35. Recently, Croatia received its first Rafales, and Serbia announced plans to procure a dozen more. Key Points: -This increased interest, influenced by Russia’s...

nationalinterest.org

Oh look what I found

I'm usually more on the friendly/lenient side with posts regarding or replying to that or of origin of our Indian "friends" (some). I don't disagree that some people do go to extreme levels with some of the Indian posters here.

But in regards to your posts, I think it's very apparent that you are not posting in good faith (to pursue serious discussion) but rather just to feed misinformation and sensationalist headlines and to a point, war monger.

It's like you've completely ignored that actual article in this original post, saw the headlines that Rafales are being bought (when in reality, it's a letter of intent, backed by expected funding/aid), and decided to feed off the notion that due to this, it's somehow the best fighter jet in the role and further justifies India's purchase of Rafales, therefore saying India is proven to be the best air force in the world, etc. You're even going as far as to secretly implying that it's somehow better than the F35 (a fifth-gen...).

Like dude - I don't think most people here would say that Rafales are junk - it's obvious that they are potent. Hell, even our military officials acknowledged that. You're just posting in bad faith to just further chest thump and feed your nationalistic insecurities.

You can definitely do better.

 

[flyingorca]

Who Localized the Rafale Fighters, How It Was Done, and What Ukraine Can Expect | Defense Express

Overall, eight countries beyond France have purchased the Rafale fighters. However, there is only one case of partial localization. At the same time, Dassault Aviation has virtually no alternative if it intends to deliver all ordered aircraft within the next decade

en.defence-ua.com

In October 2025 there are orders for 233 Rafales as we speak including 26 Marine Rafales for Indian navy arriving 2028/2030...

Ukraine has just yesterday signed a deal for 100 Rafales

India is trying to finalise another massive order for 114 Fighters

Arguably the most sought after fighter on the planet bar lightening F35 France currently can build 25 Rafales only

They have set up hub In India with reliance industry to build the fuselage to help meet the huge back log of orders

More countries are looking to s quite this incredible in demand from fighter

For France to forfill the Indian order and Ukraine order more factories will need to be set up soon

Rafal3 teray chachay ka hai jo kush horaha hai?

 

[Shui]

It's the best multi role fighter in the world bar the fifth generation fighters of USA ..

I'm.delighted the Indian navy ordered the marine Rafales as well

The Sindoor performance was excellent show of its long range precision strike capability in a hostile well defended target by chinease missiles radars and satalites ..Still struck every target with unerring precision

The notion.that four Rafale shot down is ignored globally despite chinease led propaganda

No serious interest in chinease platforms still

Gripen just won new order too
Just shows the creditbility of western hardware

Looking at you and some of the major social media defence accounts like alpha defence, defence matrix made me realised the mentality of Indian and the reasons why India is still decades if not century away from being a real power house, feeling high on some foregin fourth gen aircraft orders, hundred pages of which jet should you pick like in a supermarket, celebrating every American engine delieverd across media platforms, and meahwhile your indigenous Tejas 1 is delayed again.

 

[东风夜放花千树]

From 2028 the Rafale threat will get much bigger for Pakistan as the 26 Marine Rafales land on vikrant carrier ...

The last I heard Pakistan has received about 12 j10c from order of 25= only

No additional orders made and is awaiting to see how J35 developes over next few years

I don't understand, we were discussing the procurement of Rafale jets, so why did you suddenly start threatening Pakistan? In May, India was attacked by terrorists, and Pakistan stated that it had nothing to do with it and was willing to conduct a neutral and transparent investigation into the attack on tourists in Indian-administered Kashmir. Pakistan advocates for peace. India, without any basis, invaded Pakistan, and then a plane was shot down. The international community supported Pakistan's self-defense, appreciating Pakistan's restraint and the bravery of its military, while the Indian victory propaganda team was not welcomed. Can't India make some contributions to peace? I will advise you with a Chinese proverb: A country that forgets how to fight will be in danger; a country that only thinks about waging war will perish.

 

[Pradotlc]

Who Localized the Rafale Fighters, How It Was Done, and What Ukraine Can Expect | Defense Express

Overall, eight countries beyond France have purchased the Rafale fighters. However, there is only one case of partial localization. At the same time, Dassault Aviation has virtually no alternative if it intends to deliver all ordered aircraft within the next decade

en.defence-ua.com

In October 2025 there are orders for 233 Rafales as we speak including 26 Marine Rafales for Indian navy arriving 2028/2030...

Ukraine has just yesterday signed a deal for 100 Rafales

India is trying to finalise another massive order for 114 Fighters

Arguably the most sought after fighter on the planet bar lightening F35 France currently can build 25 Rafales only

They have set up hub In India with reliance industry to build the fuselage to help meet the huge back log of orders

More countries are looking to s quite this incredible in demand from fighter

For France to forfill the Indian order and Ukraine order more factories will need to be set up soon

as PAF has stated there was nothing wrong with 8 big beautiful jets that were lost....

 

[Pradotlc]

I don't understand, we were discussing the procurement of Rafale jets, so why did you suddenly start threatening Pakistan? In May, India was attacked by terrorists, and Pakistan stated that it had nothing to do with it and was willing to conduct a neutral and transparent investigation into the attack on tourists in Indian-administered Kashmir. Pakistan advocates for peace. India, without any basis, invaded Pakistan, and then a plane was shot down. The international community supported Pakistan's self-defense, appreciating Pakistan's restraint and the bravery of its military, while the Indian victory propaganda team was not welcomed. Can't India make some contributions to peace? I will advise you with a Chinese proverb: A country that forgets how to fight will be in danger; a country that only thinks about waging war will perish.

dont worry they have learned their lesson

with a recent "terror" (I e false flag OPS) it has been days and they havent blamed Pakistan....

 

[harpy1]

https://aninews.in/news/national/politics/india-to-boost-air-to-air-combat-capabilities-with-more-meteor-missiles20251030200341/

Slightly related more meteors ordered for Indian air force

 

[r3alist]

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[MH.Yang]

Rafale is the best choice among multi-purpose fighter jets that can be purchased without political conditions. Few customers would choose the J-10C air superiority fighter, so the record of Rafale being shot down by J-10C will not affect its sales.

 

[dani191]

A stealth combat drone designed by Dassault for the Rafale F5​

28 July 2025 admin9693 News 0

Dassault is developing a stealth combat drone powered by an M88 engine to accompany the Rafale F5 on manned-unmanned teaming missions.

France is strengthening its position in the field of combat air systems with an ambitious project: the development of a large stealth combat drone designed to operate alongside the Rafale F5 in MUMT (Manned-Unmanned Teaming) missions. Led by Dassault Aviation in partnership with the French Defense Procurement Agency (DGA), this unmanned aircraft will be powered by a Safran M88 engine, identical to the one already used in the Rafale.

With a weight comparable to that of a Mirage 2000, this drone – scheduled to enter service in 2033 – is designed to carry out offensive missions in contested environments, in particular strikes against enemy ground-to-air defense systems. Cooperation with a piloted Rafale will enable roles to be shared between the platforms, maximizing operational efficiency while reducing human risk.

This program is part of the French military modernization strategy and the desire to offer sovereign solutions for export to compete with American and Chinese systems. It also marks a decisive step for Dassault Aviation, which is crossing a technological threshold after the experience of the nEUROn demonstrator. This article analyzes in detail the characteristics of the future drone, its integration into the Rafale F5, the industrial challenges of the program, and its strategic implications.

The design of the stealth drone and its technical characteristics​

The drone under development, sometimes referred to as “nEUROn 2.0,” is distinguished by its dimensions, which are similar to those of a Mirage 2000, with an estimated takeoff weight of 17.5 tons. It is therefore a fully-fledged combat aircraft capable of carrying out complex offensive missions in heavily defended areas. This change in scale, compared to the 6-ton nEUROn demonstrator, poses significant technical challenges, particularly in terms of stealth, propulsion, and payload.

The choice of the Safran M88 engine, proven on the Rafale, guarantees sufficient power while ensuring logistical compatibility with the maintenance chains already in service. This compact turbofan engine delivers approximately 75 kilonewtons of thrust in afterburner, with a low infrared signature and optimized fuel consumption. Its ease of maintenance and modularity make it a logical choice for a system intended for intensive use.

The drone will be equipped with an internal weapons bay, avoiding any external appendages that could compromise stealth. The overall architecture will favor angular shapes, fairing air intakes, radar-absorbing composite materials, and advanced thermal management. The airframe should incorporate a retractable landing gear, passive sensors, and avionics specifically adapted for semi-autonomous piloting.

This combat drone is designed to perform SEAD/DEAD (Suppression/Destruction of Enemy Air Defenses) missions. It will be able to fly at medium or high altitudes, identify active radars, transmit coordinates to a Rafale, or carry out strikes itself. Its payload, which is still confidential, could allow it to carry AASM Hammer air-to-ground missiles, or even anti-radar missiles, in limited quantities but sufficient to neutralize priority targets.

Full integration into the MUMT concept with the Rafale F5​

The project is based on close operational cooperation between humans and machines, via a system known as “teaming.” The Rafale F5, a modernized version expected from 2030, will be equipped with advanced data links, enabling it to control one or more drones in flight. This secure digital link will enable dynamic distribution of roles during missions: detection, jamming, target designation, or strike.

While capable of operating autonomously, the drone will remain under the supervision of the Rafale pilot. The latter will have an interface in their cockpit enabling them to transmit orders, access the drone’s sensor feeds and even authorize firing. Control will probably be via a SATCOM-type link or a direct tactical link, within an operational radius of approximately 300 kilometers.

The strategic advantage is twofold: the drone can enter high-risk areas, designate a target without endangering the manned aircraft, and act as a force multiplier. In the event of jamming, it will be able to continue its mission partially autonomously, according to predefined scenarios.

This type of operation requires clear doctrine and appropriate chains of command. The DGA is working with the armed forces to define these operating procedures, in line with future NATO requirements. The modular approach of the Rafale F5, which incorporates a new electronic warfare system and an active phased array radar (AESA), will enable seamless data fusion between the aircraft and the drone.

A strategic lever for French sovereignty and the defense industry​

With this program, France is becoming one of the few countries to design a large stealth combat drone integrated into an existing fighter platform. It thus joins an exclusive club dominated by the United States (with the Skyborg project and Loyal Wingman drones) and China (with the FH-97A). Unlike its competitors, the French system relies on industrial sectors that are entirely controlled within the country, from the airframe to the engine.

This choice of industrial autonomy is key. It reduces dependence on foreign suppliers and ensures total freedom of use. In addition, the drone can be offered for export in line with the Rafale strategy. Several potential customers in Europe, the Middle East, and Asia could be interested in a joint Rafale + drone solution, capable of covering a broader operational spectrum with a smaller fleet.

The drone could also foreshadow certain modules of the SCAF program (Future Air Combat System), conducted with Germany and Spain. In the medium term, the technologies developed for the Rafale F5 and its companion drone could be transferred to the NGF (Next Generation Fighter), the core of the SCAF. This would give Dassault greater credibility in European industrial discussions.

Challenges to overcome to ensure the program’s success​

The development of such a system presents considerable challenges, both technologically and industrially. Stealth is a demanding field that requires perfect mastery of shapes, materials, RAM (Radar Absorbent Material) coatings, and thermal signature. The transition from a demonstrator such as the nEUROn to an operational combat aircraft involves a leap forward in terms of robustness, connectivity, and the ability to operate in a joint network.

The engine is a second challenge. Although the M88 is a reliable engine, its integration into an unmanned airframe requires more rigorous thermal management in the absence of active human control. The mission management software will need to be able to adapt to different tactical scenarios, with sufficient onboard intelligence to make real-time decisions while remaining under supervision.

Industrialization will need to be smooth and coordinated between the various partners: Dassault for the airframe and integration, Safran for the engine, Thales for sensors and communications, MBDA for armament, and the DGA for capability validation.

The provisional schedule is ambitious: the first test flight is expected between 2029 and 2031, with operational qualification around 2033 and gradual entry into service from 2034. It will require sustained financial commitment and rigorous management, particularly in a constrained budgetary environment.