Taimoor
Elite Member
Cant you click and read the link in my last post?
If still clueless, read post #54 #58
F-16 Officially In Ukrainian Service
- Thread starter Broghil
- Start date
Cant you click and read the link in my last post?
If still clueless, read post #54 #58
j_hungary
Professional
Dude, those are even longer than the NYT and the Reuter Article.....August and May 2023.......
Do you have something at least at the beginning of this year? Like I said before?
Like this
How Ukraine’s new F-16 fighter jets will help the fight against Putin’s forces and Russia’s drone attacks
Four European countries are set to deliver scores of ageing F-16s to Ukraine over the next few months
This article is from August 2, 2024
As I said in the main post, Ukrainian situation is very different from 2023 to 2024. And you are bringing in an article written in May 2023? That's even before Russian took Bakhmut....
Dude, you are talking about that time the worse thing happening in Ukraine is those Iranian Shahed Drone, that's before Russian took Avdiivka and that's before Russian threaten Charsiv Yar.
Taimoor
Elite Member
Dude, those are even longer than the NYT and the Reuter Article.....August and May 2023.......
Do you have something at least at the beginning of this year? Like I said before?
Like this
How Ukraine’s new F-16 fighter jets will help the fight against Putin’s forces and Russia’s drone attacks
Four European countries are set to deliver scores of ageing F-16s to Ukraine over the next few monthsau.news.yahoo.com
View attachment 59325
This article is from August 2, 2024
As I said in the main post, Ukrainian situation is very different from 2023 to 2024. And you are bringing in an article written in May 2023? That's even before Russian took Bakhmut....
Dude, you are talking about that time the worse thing happening in Ukraine is those Iranian Shahed Drone, that's before Russian took Avdiivka and that's before Russian threaten Charsiv Yar.
Mate, these are all western top publications and think tanks. They are more focused at strategic and policy levels then tactical details. It doesnt matter the articles are from last year, they clearly demonstrate the "reasons" F16s will be used in the conflict, and those reasons havent change a bit, as far as the deployment of F16s is concerned. Russian ground advancement has got nothing to do with F16s, their availability or lack of. You keep on going in tangent and lose your focus. The units available to Ukraine, their best utility is for air to air role, and be a nuisance for Russian air operations. And this what has been understood and recognize by all these think tanks.
j_hungary
Professional
I am not saying they aren't focus on the issue.
If you have read my response already made to the NYT article, I said priority changes, and you focus on different thing thru different stage. What appraisal there is 8 or 9 months ago will not suit the need for what happened today. That's why I ask you (back then) do you have latest article not something from 8 to 9 months ago. And now you point me to 2 articles that's goes even further.
As I said, I was expecting something at least start with 2024, but meh, as I said, that's said and done, I am not going further in this, so I don't go into circle loop.
Taimoor
Elite Member
As I said, its becoming tedious to engage with you, move on and be at peace.
UKBengali
Elite Member
F-16s won’t affect the war in the air as Russia has not had to deploy its full AirPower as UAF has been so weak.
If Russia needs to deploy more air capability to deal with these F-16s then that is what will happen.
In essence UAF is using 100% of its capability, whereas RuAF maybe 50%. Russia may need to use 70-80% of its AirPower to neutralise the effect of UAF F-16s.
If Russia needs to deploy more air capability to deal with these F-16s then that is what will happen.
In essence UAF is using 100% of its capability, whereas RuAF maybe 50%. Russia may need to use 70-80% of its AirPower to neutralise the effect of UAF F-16s.
SolarWarden
Trusted Member
When you talk out of your BLEEP do say to yourself, damn that sounded good?
Russian airforce is missing in action their CAP capability bordering the nation they are at war with is almost non existing. Russia has no air superiority over their airspace where Cessna size Ukraine drones can freely penetrate their airspace and fly hundreds even thousands of kms. Even Ukraine Flankers are flying combat missions in Kursk...
Ukraine F-16's with better SA and EW/ECM will have WAAAAAY more success in interdiction and CAS especially in SEAD/DEAD... if there is any s300/400 batteries left.
Once Ukraine took out the Belgorod s400 mig-29's were flying at high altitude dropping JDAMS at Russian positions in Vovchanks which is 2-4kms from Russian border now tell me Bengali where was mighty Russian SU-35 or Mig-31 with R37M with its 300-400km range keeping Ukraine fighters away?
Oscar
Moderator
Problem right now is getting Ukranian proficiency so now retd USAF is being offered to fly them.
j_hungary
Professional
You should have air quoted "retired", you don't get to be retired if you were getting them training and money from Uncle Sam.....
IIRC, a pilot needs around 250 flight hours to gain the aviator wing. That's around 6 millions dollars to train a fighter pilot (Plus the degree), they never let you go after they spent that amount until you are AARP age.
When I was getting my TS/SCI and get thru all the school so I can work in the military intelligence, there is a stipulation in my contract saying they can legally extent my service without my consent until I turn 45 with the permission from the President under USC 10. Commonly known as stop loss.....I would think you had the same thing with pilot.
But yeah, they will get those pilots who want to fight the Russian to join their rank, giving them citizenship like with the International Legion, a lot of the pilot I know, and my brother knows (he himself was a Marine pilot) was itching for a fight with the Russian. It's not hard for the USAF to do something like the Flying Tiger during WW2.
SolarWarden
Trusted Member
I think once Ukraine has 2 squadrons likely end of year and "retired pilots" start "volunteering" you could see a situation where US puts in a couple of ringer F-16's/US standard F-16's with latest avionics and air to air weapons flown by only US pilots. They likely be in air to air role imbedded in a Ukraine strike flight quarterbacking the mission.
UKBengali
Elite Member
Why the need to get personal here?
Duh. of course the SU-27 had to flow low as otherwise an A-50U would have spotted it from 400km and given targeting information to SU-35 to blow it out of the sky using R-77M(AIM-120D) equivalent that is probably in IOC as it has been in testing for 5 years now.
That Ukrainian SU-27 pilot was being suicidal and do we know whether he survived?
SU-57, R-77M and R-37M are simply in a better class than anything Ukraine has.
SolarWarden
Trusted Member
I ask you a question you took "personal."
Lulz. Oh is that right? Tell me why is an AWACS flying hundreds of kilometers from Kursk?
Btw AWACS can still detect low flying fighters couple hundred kilometers away.
-They can detect low-flying targets within 400 kilometers (250 miles) and higher-flying targets another 120 kilometers (75 miles) beyond that, the alliance says. It says one AWACS can surveil an area the size of Poland; three can cover all of central Europe.
With 'God's-eye view,' secretive surveillance flights keep close watch on Russia and Ukraine
Surveillance flights for NATO are closely watching Russian activity along the military alliance's eastern flank.
apnews.com
Nice try bud your false "knowledge" is a fail. Take a guess why.
How do YOU know what he was? How do we know you are real? See how stupid that sounds? Well claiming SU-27 pilot was suicidal and asking whether he survived also sounds stupid.
j_hungary
Professional
Probably more than 2 squadron, maybe a full wing, they are getting 60-80 by the end of the year, and I will say you can probably find that many "retired" pilot and crew chief in the US just to staff those, as I said, a lot of them are itching for a fight, and you probably will be chasing those aerial kills if you were a pilot, like we are chasing our first blood for us grunt. USAF pilot is like a grunt got all their training and never used their skill. And then you have a lot of European pilots that flew F-16, and they are famous for exporting those (especially the Dane) to work as a mercenary pilot in South Africa.
But then if this was me, and knowing I have a background of military intelligence, I like to fight dirty. If this was up to me, I would probably arrange some "dark-out" F-16 and station them in Ukraine, maybe another 80 or maybe the whole lot from JB Davis-Monthan (think we have 200+ ready to go F-16) and have them staffed by US/European F-16 pilot. What the US giving the Ukrainian is not just the airframe, but a placeholder, unless they lost more than 80 airframe (which is unlikely) they will never know we did that, and this wasn't the first time we did this if we are doing it anyway.
SolarWarden
Trusted Member
@UKBengali
Where's mighty A50U detecting Ukraine fighters and vectoring SU-35's with R77Ms and Mig-31's with R37Ms?
When Ukraine F-16's start being used for CAS and interdiction they are going to have a field day
Where's mighty A50U detecting Ukraine fighters and vectoring SU-35's with R77Ms and Mig-31's with R37Ms?
When Ukraine F-16's start being used for CAS and interdiction they are going to have a field day
KingQamaR
Elite Member
It is not just a matter of flying. It takes years of training to operate a combat system as complex as the F16. Then, there is the issue of maintenance and logistics. Also, weapons integrations, what weapons can these aircraft actually deploy, etc etc etc. not all of these F16's are actually up to the latests standards, so, they cannot all carry up to date weapons. Then, consider that nowhere in Ukraine is out of range of the Russians.
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