F-47 Design Progressing, First Flight On Track

[wangdefa]

When people here mention experience, are you referring to the dogfighting experience of old-fashioned fighter jets? It's like a pilot showing off his outdated skills, while today we launch missiles from 400 kilometers away, use radar-guided strikes, and have AI assistance. Which of these requires close-range combat? The technological gap of high-tech weapons overwhelms everything. In future air combat, we might even use unmanned combat aircraft. Does experience give AI a significant advantage?

I seem to see an old man showing off how he used to bend with incredible speed in his youth. However, he doesn't realize that in the era of electronic control, such actions can be easily accomplished.

 

[AZ_HighCountry]

When people here mention experience, are you referring to the dogfighting experience of old-fashioned fighter jets? It's like a pilot showing off his outdated skills, while today we launch missiles from 400 kilometers away, use radar-guided strikes, and have AI assistance. Which of these requires close-range combat? The technological gap of high-tech weapons overwhelms everything. In future air combat, we might even use unmanned combat aircraft. Does experience give AI a significant advantage?

I seem to see an old man showing off how he used to bend with incredible speed in his youth. However, he doesn't realize that in the era of electronic control, such actions can be easily accomplished.

Would you care to elaborate on how this is relevant to the discussion of the F-47 as well as your experience as to how dogfighting is an outdated skill?

You are aware of some of the developments of both the USAF and USN, no? If not, kindly direct yourself towards TWZ. You'll find numerous articles of what has been made publicly available regarding US developments regarding air combat.

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

while today we launch missiles from 400 kilometers away

Ultra long beyond visual range air to air missiles like PL-17/R-37M/AIM-260 are only for slow moving big radar cross section targets like AWACS/ Air to air refueling tankers/ cargo and ISR (intelligence/surveillance/ reconainnssance platforms not intercepting for fighter jets at 400 km

 

[Pioneer]

Whether it's Russia or New Russia, indulging in empiricism may not necessarily be a bad thing for the entire world.

 

[Yommie]

Ultra long beyond visual range air to air missiles like PL-17/R-37M/AIM-260 are only for slow moving big radar cross section targets like AWACS/ Air to air refueling tankers/ cargo and ISR (intelligence/surveillance/ reconainnssance platforms not intercepting for fighter jets at 400 km

PL-15 = AIM-260 = R-77M. R-37M, PL-17 are anti AWACs, tankers.

 

[AZ_HighCountry]

People need to keep in mind that the guys who once said that dogfighting was obsolete and there was no need for guns was the US. That missiles would do the job that guns once did. And then there was the air war over the skies of SE Asia.

What technologies the F-47 will incorporate is not known by any of us. What we do know is that today, fighter pilots still train in the art of dogfighting.

 

[Ali_Baba]

People need to keep in mind that the guys who once said that dogfighting was obsolete and there was no need for guns was the US. That missiles would do the job that guns once did. And then there was the air war over the skies of SE Asia.

What technologies the F-47 will incorporate is not known by any of us. What we do know is that today, fighter pilots still train in the art of dogfighting.

"logically" if everyone flies stealth, and no one can detect anyone else until the last minute, then wouldn't the future be WVR combat only? ie does BVR only apply in 4th gen vs 4th gen world and 5v4gen world but in a world of 5v5, then WVR becomes relevant again?

The only counter to this, is that passive sensors, and space based sensors become so sophisticated in a multi-domain network engagement environment that BVR will still hold true ?

 

[AZ_HighCountry]

All good question you ask. And right now, to the chagrin of some, both the US and China are the frontrunners. It's too early IMO to come to a conclusion who is the true frontrunner. Some here will undoubtedly argue China because of the recent success of the PAF against the IAF.

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

PL-15 = AIM-260 = R-77M. R-37M, PL-17 are anti AWACs, tankers.

Not PL-15 but its only for fighter jets, Its main mission against fighter jets and it has a secondary mission to destroy against AWACS/tAnkers

 

[KingQamaR]

yes, but against other 4thgen jets

F16 is still being built mate, because it’s still pretty good useful for a lot of missions, especially with modern upgrades. Jack of all trades is a master of none, but often more useful than a master of one.

 

[Oscar]

But I don't think Mr. Trump will keep secrets on X.

We assume that the F-47 has already been built and even tested. And Trump is willing to keep it secret. But. How can you convince me that it is logical to hype it up under confidentiality?

Why is your entire argument on one man's (regardless of his idiotic uncontrollability)?
Trump is possibly the most corrupt US president with multiple financial personal(trump family) dealings directly as a result of his being president - does he announce them? Of course not.

Then, the F-47 (production variant) is separate from any technology demonstrator or interim airframe?
There is a massive difference between the YF-22 and F-22, just as there is between an NGAD demonstrator and the eventual F-47.

DARPA - announced that both Boeings and LM's designs flow in 2019 and 2022 - likely from Groom lake which unlike China's rather easy viewing sites for its plants - is very well hidden and protected from public eyes.

The J-20 was first photographed in 2010.
It was officially confirmed to me by former Chief Test Pilot for JF-17 who by his relationships through both being in Chengdu for months on end and also people he met in CAC - in Mid-2011.
China has NOT acknowledged it by then.

Shall we consider all

He also told me there are 2 other designs China is working of which PAF is looking at one. Then a year later we hear of FC-31.

The point is not simply whether an aircraft exists; it is what level of acknowledgement, visibility, and evidence should be treated as meaningful.

 

[Pioneer]

Why is your entire argument on one man's (regardless of his idiotic uncontrollability)?
Trump is possibly the most corrupt US president with multiple financial personal(trump family) dealings directly as a result of his being president - does he announce them? Of course not.

Then, the F-47 (production variant) is separate from any technology demonstrator or interim airframe?
There is a massive difference between the YF-22 and F-22, just as there is between an NGAD demonstrator and the eventual F-47.

DARPA - announced that both Boeings and LM's designs flow in 2019 and 2022 - likely from Groom lake which unlike China's rather easy viewing sites for its plants - is very well hidden and protected from public eyes.

The J-20 was first photographed in 2010.
It was officially confirmed to me by former Chief Test Pilot for JF-17 who by his relationships through both being in Chengdu for months on end and also people he met in CAC - in Mid-2011.
China has NOT acknowledged it by then.

Shall we consider all

He also told me there are 2 other designs China is working of which PAF is looking at one. Then a year later we hear of FC-31.

The point is not simply whether an aircraft exists; it is what level of acknowledgement, visibility, and evidence should be treated as meaningful.

Because all your viewpoints are based on speculation.

 

[Oscar]

Because all your viewpoints are based on speculation.

Did you doubt the J-20 when it was rumored as well?

 

[Pioneer]

Did you doubt the J-20 when it was rumored as well?

Three logical points.

1. The J-20 was discovered by "wall-climbing party" members (There was no discussion or news leak before this), not through discussion. It already exists when we discuss it.



2. Initially, we didn't even know it was called "J-20". We referred to it as "Black Ribbon"- 黑丝带.



3, In the 1980s - 1990s, confidentiality work was quite simple. All it took was not to disclose it. But now, it's different from the multimedia level of the last century. Ordinary people can directly participate in "social media work". Nothing can be kept completely confidential. Lolita Island cannot keep secrets. Neither can others. so. “No means No.”

So don't always tell me, "military personnel told your friend some secret." Such strange statements are used to prove your point. This is considered a crime of disclosure in China.