France stopped UAE to deploy its Rafales against Azeri JF-17 Block 3 in Falcons Meet 2026 war drills

[K2RULEZ]

The Rafale is indeed an excellent fighter jet. When analyzing the comprehensive performance of the airframe alone, it is certainly superior to the J-10CE.
In a recent CCTV interview with PLAAF pilots, they explicitly stated that the Rafale’s dogfighting capabilities are significantly better than those of the J-16—though they did not mention another truly critical aspect: BVR (Beyond-Visual-Range) combat.

This is precisely where the key difference lies. In the era of BVR (Beyond-Visual-Range) combat, the Rafale fighter clearly has not kept pace. To be more precise, the BVR capabilities of the Rafale fighters operated by both the Indian and Egyptian air forces are evidently far inferior to those of the J-10CE fighter. A crucial distinction here lies in the BVR air-to-air missiles (AAMs) they carry.

It’s like this:
Suppose I were to face off against heavyweight champion Mike Tyson.
If we fought bare-handed, I would obviously be no match for him.
However, if he were holding a short wooden club while I held a fully loaded AK-47, with 100 meters between us, then I would have a 99.999999% chance of winning...
Yet, no one would consider me a better fighter than Tyson.

Or,

let’s consider a different scenario. Suppose a Rafale fighter were sent to China and AVIC carried out a deep integration of the PL-15E beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile (BVR AAM) onto the aircraft. If that Rafale were then to engage in aerial combat with a J-10CE, the J-10CE would not necessarily achieve a decisive victory.

In an ideal world perhaps, but the French and Indians are dealing with Pakistan Air Force. Fact remains that PAF downed the so-called superior Rafale. There is no ambiguity about this.

 

[K2RULEZ]

Yeah, prior to 2000 Pakistan had been a loyal customer from early 70s and days of Mirage, Daphne, Agosta, Agosta 90B Subs, Mistral and Crotale SAMs, Aloutte and Puma choppers, Breaguet Atlantic MPA, Exocet missiles etc.

Post 2000 Turks, Italians and Chinese basically took over much of France's market share in Pak. For 25 years all France got out of India was 6 Subs and 36 (now 28) Rafales. Even the French now realise they were played...

Tough luck for the French. As India and other nations buy their premium fighters to deploy against adversaries, France must face reality, the Rafale will be pitted against rival jets in combat. It's bound to win some and lose some. While defeat might be a bitter pill for the proud French defense industry to swallow, it's an inevitable fate.

The French not allowing the UAE to deploy their Rafale fighters against the Pakistani JF-17 only reveals French insecurity.

 

[Michael]

In an ideal world perhaps, but the French and Indians are dealing with Pakistan Air Force. Fact remains that PAF downed the so-called superior Rafale. There is no ambiguity about this.

Yes.

I am not denying the fact that it was shot down.

However, we cannot simply conclude from this that the J-10CE is superior to the Rafale.

The issues are as follows:

1. The Rafale was designed with BVR (Beyond-Visual-Range) combat capabilities in mind, even if that aspect was not prioritized to the same extent as it was for the J-10CE. We must not forget that the Rafale’s design DNA is that of a multi-role fighter, whereas the J-10CE’s design DNA is that of an air-superiority fighter.

2. The IAF completely lacks a support system for modern airborne BVR operations. This is the key factor behind their disastrous defeat.

3. The gap in BVR AAM capabilities is too wide.

 

[K2RULEZ]

Yes.

I am not denying the fact that it was shot down.

However, we cannot simply conclude from this that the J-10CE is superior to the Rafale.

The issues are as follows:

1. The Rafale was designed with BVR (Beyond-Visual-Range) combat capabilities in mind, even if that aspect was not prioritized to the same extent as it was for the J-10CE. We must not forget that the Rafale’s design DNA is that of a multi-role fighter, whereas the J-10CE’s design DNA is that of an air-superiority fighter.

2. The IAF completely lacks a support system for modern airborne BVR operations. This is the key factor behind their disastrous defeat.

3. The gap in BVR AAM capabilities is too wide.

No one claimed that the J-10C is superior. This discussion revolves around French insecurity and backstabbing. The French are sour and angry. They have a history with us and they turned their back on us. Now they are finding out that Pakistan has alternatives. In fact very good alternatives.

 

[F.O.X]

The IAF did not lose because Pakistan had the better aircraft. on paper, the J- 10C is still a notch below the Rafale.

Indian birds fell from the sky because modern air combat is not decided by one platform alone. It was the complete package, including, planning, pilots, situational awareness, AEW&C , EW, weapons employment and command structure. The PAF simply used its available assets better.

There was no single reason for the IAF’s failure. It was the result of multiple failures coming together at the worst possible time.

so there is no reason for French to be afraid.

 

[K2RULEZ]

The IAF did not lose because Pakistan had the better aircraft. on paper, the J- 10C is still a notch below the Rafale.

Indian birds fell from the sky because modern air combat is not decided by one platform alone. It was the complete package, including, planning, pilots, situational awareness, AEW&C , EW, weapons employment and command structure. The PAF simply used its available assets better.

There was no single reason for the IAF’s failure. It was the result of multiple failures coming together at the worst possible time.

so there is no reason for French to be afraid.

That is still unfathomable for the French. We know how their superiors initially reacted.

 

[niubi]

Yeah the French responded to May 2025 air combat results with a very pissy mood but that's because the Rafale represents the pinnacle of what they have and what they've been able to do, also the absolute best of what they will have as a frontline fighter for the foreseeable future.

They would have imagined the Rafale to be roughly an equal to the J-20 if all else where equal (of course the support network behind PLAAF J-20 and French Airforce Rafale would be very much in favour of China and the J-20 is in reality so much better than the Rafale it would be like comparing F-22 with J-11B). Never would they consider the Rafale to be not equal to even the J-16 but bested by J-10.

Yes Michael's point about critical differences like just radar and missile makes a big difference in performance but the fact remains that IAF sent out more fighters than Pakistan. IAF sent out multiple units of two different types of AWACS (A-50 and NETRA) which are as modern if not more so than the AWACS PAF operated. I'd say support and planning on both sides were very roughly equal.

J-10CE's AESA is simply better than Rafale F4's AESA. PL-15E is simply better than Meteor (wrecks of Meteor were around confirming their activity and use during 2025, India never even officially stated Meteor was not included because that would be political suicide to lie about not having your main long range A2A missile for such expensive Rafales).

If Rafale's radar is the same as J-10CE's and Meteor performs identically to PL-15E, then yes Rafale is quite likely to be the better air superiority fighter and the much better multirole aircraft.

 

[Yasser76]

The IAF did not lose because Pakistan had the better aircraft. on paper, the J- 10C is still a notch below the Rafale.

Indian birds fell from the sky because modern air combat is not decided by one platform alone. It was the complete package, including, planning, pilots, situational awareness, AEW&C , EW, weapons employment and command structure. The PAF simply used its available assets better.

There was no single reason for the IAF’s failure. It was the result of multiple failures coming together at the worst possible time.

so there is no reason for French to be afraid.

Spot on and time and bad planning is compounding the situation for India.

Firstly, as time progresses Chinese tech is getting further and further ahead of western tech, benefiting Pakistan by defualt

Secondly planning. Rightly or wrongly PAF has gone for a Chinese based eco system with some national modifications. IAF still seem to be all over the place (Isralie/Indian AEW, Russian, Israeli, Indian SAM, French, Russian and Indian planes).. It's a shit show for interoperatability and making a effective and instant sensor to shooter system

 

[Master Chief]

The IAF did not lose because Pakistan had the better aircraft. on paper, the J- 10C is still a notch below the Rafale.

Indian birds fell from the sky because modern air combat is not decided by one platform alone. It was the complete package, including, planning, pilots, situational awareness, AEW&C , EW, weapons employment and command structure. The PAF simply used its available assets better.

There was no single reason for the IAF’s failure. It was the result of multiple failures coming together at the worst possible time.

so there is no reason for French to be afraid.

Well, yes you're right.

However, Dassault Aviation stock prices go up or down based on perception, not technical realities alone.

Investors see plane fall from sky, investors sell.

So the French do need to protect that perception aspect of their business interests.

 

[KingQamaR]

Yes.

I am not denying the fact that it was shot down.

However, we cannot simply conclude from this that the J-10CE is superior to the Rafale.

The issues are as follows:

1. The Rafale was designed with BVR (Beyond-Visual-Range) combat capabilities in mind, even if that aspect was not prioritized to the same extent as it was for the J-10CE. We must not forget that the Rafale’s design DNA is that of a multi-role fighter, whereas the J-10CE’s design DNA is that of an air-superiority fighter.

2. The IAF completely lacks a support system for modern airborne BVR operations. This is the key factor behind their disastrous defeat.

3. The gap in BVR AAM capabilities is too wide.

PAF clash with Wests frontline best 4.5 Rafal jet rewrites air combat . It’s no longer platform VS platform, it’s now system VS system. there is no dogfight... the air combat is long distance missile shooting. The system from Pak is better to identify India air force and lunch the missile from long distance. The India airplane not able to maneuver away.
The new way of air combat is set the stander from this one. The electric/Rada/early-detection/data-link system will take major rule from now on.
It is better not to compare airplane to airplane any more... the system to system is more important from now on.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

The IAF did not lose because Pakistan had the better aircraft. on paper, the J- 10C is still a notch below the Rafale.

Indian birds fell from the sky because modern air combat is not decided by one platform alone. It was the complete package, including, planning, pilots, situational awareness, AEW&C , EW, weapons employment and command structure. The PAF simply used its available assets better.

There was no single reason for the IAF’s failure. It was the result of multiple failures coming together at the worst possible time.

so there is no reason for French to be afraid.

I strongly disagree from the "Semiconductor" POV! As a veteran of a number of decades in this field I can say the following:

• GaN based devices in J-10C AESA radar and Pl-15 show 10x better performance than GaAs based devices in Rafale AESA radar and Meteor
• GaN based devices are damn difficult to fabricate for they show damn poor device-to-device consistency in functionality and reliability. If the Chinese have mastered the arts and sciences of circumventing these issues hats off to them. By the by, it requires millions of engineering hours by burning billions of $s to fine-tune these fabrication processes. Here, the newly-grad PhDs in EE, Materials engineering, Physics etc. work like technicians! You need an army of such engineers and scientists! It's no "Java Programming" learnt on-line
• It requires extensive on-the-fly testing systems and engineering time to fine-tune GaN based AESA radars for different scenarios (detection, EW, EA, ECM, coupling with BVR missiles etc.). The USA uses giant Boeing 747s - teeming with test equipment and engineers- for countless flying hours for this purpose. Looks like the Chinese have surpassed the USA too! As for the EU or Russia, they don't have such means
• Etc.

*Strangely, the Turkish Boys and Girls have become like the Bell Labs class maestro in the field of III-V (generic name for GaAs, GaN etc.) semiconductors.

 

[Ali_Baba]

I strongly disagree from the "Semiconductor" POV! As a veteran of a number of decades in this field I can say the following:

• GaN based devices in J-10C AESA radar and Pl-15 show 10x better performance than GaAs based devices in Rafale AESA radar and Meteor
• GaN based devices are damn difficult to fabricate for they show damn poor device-to-device consistency in functionality and reliability. If the Chinese have mastered the arts and sciences of circumventing these issues hats off to them. By the by, it requires millions of engineering hours by burning billions of $s to fine-tune these fabrication processes. Here, the newly-grad PhDs in EE, Materials engineering, Physics etc. work like technicians! You need an army of such engineers and scientists! It's no "Java Programming" learnt on-line
• It requires extensive on-the-fly testing systems and engineering time to fine-tune GaN based AESA radars for different scenarios (detection, EW, EA, ECM, coupling with BVR missiles etc.). The USA uses giant Boeing 747s - teeming with test equipment and engineers- for countless flying hours for this purpose. Looks like the Chinese have surpassed the USA too! As for the EU or Russia, they don't have such means
• Etc.

Interesting. I can see China having the resources to develop, fully test and validate GaN AESA radars, I do wonder given the resources required, how much success India will have and how effective her solutions will be. Russia only offers AESA on the Su57E though I don't know if they are GaA or GaN.

Even with a GaN radar, the Rafale will always be limited by its rather small nose.