Frustrated Google employee wants to quit as half of his teammates are Indians

[vasanthm]

The funny part is that no Indian wants to return to a $5 trillion economy India once he/she has left that country .

You seem stuck in the ’90s. I graduated from a top tier Western university, worked at a leading firm, and chose to return to India to build something of my own. Many of my classmates have done the same. Visit any startup or tech meet in Bangalore, you’ll find plenty of UK/US returnees who left good jobs abroad to create and scale businesses here, some even selling to VCs. Sure, many still aim to settle in the West, but that’s only part of the story. The reality has changed time to move past outdated views.

 

[harpy1]

Indians are all over corporate world in the west
The Indian economy is also massive now fourth largest soon third largest
This is natural world order of huge population internationalluy mobile in huge numbers
And big big economy
Big in info technology and engineering

 

[Baibers_1260]

Fun facts:
There are approximately 6611 private engineering colleges in India. This number is part of the total of 8,876 engineering colleges across the country, with the remaining 2,265 being government institutions.
The private engineering colleges are all off campus affiliated to universities and follow the semester system.
The students who enroll here are the ones who have failed to secure admission to the 2,265 government engineering colleges through the JEE Joint Entrance Exam JEE ( Main) , or JEE (Advanced), or various state level exams. India's reservation system also causes many in the General category to fail to secure admission,
Example of a typical education path:
1. A student with a mediocre score pays a huge donation sum ( 3 lakhs to ₹20 lakhs, or about $3500 to $23000) to secure a seat. He/she fails to pass all subjects in the first semester examination ( reasons will be discussed later)

2, The student gets promoted to the next semester with say 3 papers from the previous ones carried over. An extra 2 papers now get carried over.

3. The student keeps moving up "carrying over " papers because the "engineering colleges" are not interested in blocking seats for more donations candidates. It's the money after all.

4. In the 4th and final year the student has 20+ papers to clear some with a curriculum going back 4 years. Obviously an extremely difficult and neat impossible task. The university fails the student but the "College " gives a flowery embellished Course Completion Certificate ( C3 ) . " Shree so-&-so , son of so - &- so enrolled in the course of B.Sc Mechanical Engineering on March 30 2021 and successfully completed the course " . There is no university degree or marksheet

The "techie " can't get government jobs or even a job in an Indian private sector enterprise. Business Provider Outsourcing companies don't care. They need keyboard coolies working in a 2ft x 3ft shelf table with a plug for the labtop and no room even for a mouse or keyboard. The resume faking system then takes over. 1 in 1000 make it past the checks to the USA, the rest end up as scammers.

 

[Baibers_1260]

You seem stuck in the ’90s. I graduated from a top tier Western university, worked at a leading firm, and chose to return to India to build something of my own. Many of my classmates have done the same. Visit any startup or tech meet in Bangalore, you’ll find plenty of UK/US returnees who left good jobs abroad to create and scale businesses here, some even selling to VCs. Sure, many still aim to settle in the West, but that’s only part of the story. The reality has changed time to move past outdated views.

What percentage of Graduates ( MS) at Western Universities return to India? I tried to search for answers in Google but got varying results.
ICE in the USA has started cracking down on students overstaying their student visas and working illegally at restaurants and car washes. Don't have any data on actual numbers but the TV news shows ICE raids at different locations.

I am not stuck in the 1990s . On my last trip in February this year there were still long queues at the consulates ( many consulates not just US) in Delhi..

 

[vasanthm]

What percentage of Graduates ( MS) at Western Universities return to India? I tried to search for answers in Google but got varying results.
ICE in the USA has started cracking down on students overstaying their student visas and working illegally at restaurants and car washes. Don't have any data on actual numbers but the TV news shows ICE raids at different locations.

I am not stuck in the 1990s . On my last trip in February this year there were still long queues at the consulates ( many consulates not just US) in Delhi..

A growing number, I’d say. The startup scene in Bangalore is vibrant and only getting bigger. In my parents’ generation, hardly anyone who went to the US returned but now it’s common to meet people who’ve come back to start everything from wineries to organic brands, alongside the usual IT services. Naturally, in a large economy, you’ll find people at every level, from low end tech scammers to top-tier entrepreneurs. Your view is a bit like saying only Chinese firms making for Apple are any good, while the rest produce junk. In reality, a thriving ecosystem always has both scale and quality at all levels.

 

[Baibers_1260]

it’s common to meet people who’ve come back to start everything from wineries to organic brands, alongside the usual IT services

Every business is not IT.
The automotive, aerospace, petroleum, chemical, and defense sectors are huge, The presence of Indian diaspora in these sectors numbers wise is relatively modest particularly in the oil, gas and petroleum sectors.
I don't see much "startups" in the mechanical engineering industry from US or Western educated engineers and young entrepreneurs.
I was actually involved in helping a Bangaluru based local startup entrepreneur, design develop and manufacture a small gear box to be used in drones. Even with all the help the venture was a disaster with an excessive overrun both in costs and time and an 80% failure rate of the first small batch production delivered.
Beginning from scratch again we later outsourced the design development and production from to the Czech Republic and the results were spectacular .
Indians don't do so well in mechanical aerospace startups.
It is easy to have a "startup " using a laptop. Setting up a tool room with a CMM and CNC machining facility and CAD CAM software with $8000 per license is a different story. The Chinese do this far better-

 

[vasanthm]

Every business is not IT.
The automotive, aerospace, petroleum, chemical, and defense sectors are huge, The presence of Indian diaspora in these sectors numbers wise is relatively modest particularly in the oil, gas and petroleum sectors.
I don't see much "startups" in the mechanical engineering industry from US or Western educated engineers and young entrepreneurs.
I was actually involved in helping a Bangaluru based local startup entrepreneur, design develop and manufacture a small gear box to be used in drones. Even with all the help the venture was a disaster with an excessive overrun both in costs and time and an 80% failure rate of the first small batch production delivered.
Beginning from scratch again we later outsourced the design development and production from to the Czech Republic and the results were spectacular .
Indians don't do so well in mechanical aerospace startups.

True, not every business is IT but we’re seeing real growth in these sectors too. I personally know of a Tamil Nadu based startup, Aeopact, that has successfully broken into the Western aerospace market, they supply machined aluminium components to Gulfstream and others, and even acquired a US company to ease their operations there. There’s also Bharat Forge, which supplies critical components for global automotive and aerospace firms another is Skanray Technologies, focused on medical devices but with solid mechanical engineering roots. The ecosystem is evolving, it may take time, but we’re making progress.

 

[Ali_Baba]

I have been working in IT since the mid 90's. My experience was that up to and after the 2K event, Indians "over from India" were everywhere in the industry that i work in here in the UK. My experience from my last 2 roles that span 13 years is that there are fewer and fewer Indians coming over in the UK and even fewer Indian born Indians working in departments and organisations that I work in.

Everyone in the UK knows and understands the quality issue you get with the passport seeking Indians. As someone who has to recruit for my teams, for my organisations, every time i put out a job advert here in the UK, I get hundreds of Indians from India apply for those roles. I naturally reject them outright as i have no desire to take the risk given the poor control over degree awards and the hassle to deal with the immigration issues even if you find someone that is any good.

At my current organisation, there are within my department of 300 IT professionals ( I work for a bank in the financial services sector ), there are no passport seeking Indians anywhere in my department here in the UK( i do think i fired the last one!!!! ). I do think those Indians who came over during the early 2000s, are now slowly moving down to the lower tiers of IT and organisations where they don't have to deal with the financial complexity that we have to. I often hear of friends who work in other industries who complain of the "Indians". Thankfully I don't have to deal with them anymore here in the UK. So this wave from the 2k are slowly being worked out of the system in Financial Services here in the UK for the 3 organisations i have worked for.

Organisations are happier to outsource applications that are coming to the end of their lives, and use local resources to build newer generation of their platforms. They don't feel the need to bring people over anymore to the extent that they needed to originally. Here in the UK, even though there is ability to do inter-company transfers, not many people actually want to do it, when they can do that from India now...

 

[sentry]

My own experience. Spent 4 years hiring training and team building a design office with multiple trips to your Telugu heartland in Kondapur, Gacchibawli and Bangaluru Whitefield.
I am used to the "cock and bull " fake resumes and Course Completion Certificates from SriSri Vishwakarma University l

Lol. Then why still look for talent in the same areas. You know because even with all that, the actual IT talent is still in India. You won't go to Hyderabad, Pakistan.

 

[vasanthm]

Lol. Then why still look for talent in the same areas. You know because even with all that, the actual IT talent is still in India. You won't go to Hyderabad, Pakistan.

Because the real best probably don’t want to work for his company, so they’re left picking the ‘best’ of what’s left. And even for that, they have to look in India’s hinterlands, not in Pakistan, Thailand, Indonesia, or China.

 

[Baibers_1260]

True, not every business is IT but we’re seeing real growth in these sectors too. I personally know of a Tamil Nadu based startup, Aeopact, that has successfully broken into the Western aerospace market, they supply machined aluminium components to Gulfstream and others, and even acquired a US company to ease their operations there. There’s also Bharat Forge, which supplies critical components for global automotive and aerospace firms another is Skanray Technologies, focused on medical devices but with solid mechanical engineering roots. The ecosystem is evolving, it may take time, but we’re making progress.

The less said about Bharat Forge the better.
Supplying machined aerospace components to Gulfstream ?
What exactly? Overhead hatch door latches ?
India has started importing alloys from China, as it's own steel and alloy industry disinvests from the once resilient public sector to "fly by night" arc furnace scrap dealers.
Your quality standards have to rely on ANSI/SAE to satisfy overseas customers and you don't even bother to develop or enforce your own. Even your once vaunted Bureau of Indian Standards is unable to stop the rot.
As your mechanical engineering expertise deteriorates, the once famous TATAS is looking to import designs and engines from overseas reducing it to a "screwdriver technology" enterprise.
Your mechanical engineering will go the way your nascent and once emerging computer hardware and consumer electronics industry went. No one even remembers there was once HCL or Sonodyne anymore.

 

[Developereo]

This is why I think an expensive primo-college degree is now a waste if you are gong into IT.

Name brand degree is still useful.

A local college degree will get you an interview in the area or state but a degree from Ivy League or similar will get you an interview anywhere in the country.

But it only matters for the first job. After that, employers focus more on experience.

 

[sentry]

Lol. The entire thread reeks of rants of Pakistanis seething that they can't replicate India's or Indians success for themselves. For all the fraud they seem to claim in the process, they themselves would never look for talent in Karachi or Lahore in Pakistan because they know their own people. Indians get hired because they might not be what they claim to be at the beginning but always are a diligent, hardworking people who would put in work to overcome the deficiences. Other south asian countrymen would not do the same but rather want to live out of doles. So take their rants with pinch of salt. Hiring companies know better.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Maybe that is why you have Indians in charge of recruitment. They know the colleges they should recruit from. And maybe that is why it gets all regional. The Kannada guy know the good colleges in his state, but has no idea about the good colleges in other states.

But if you are hiring only based on certificates from Indian colleges, you are in for a disaster.

Last week I went to a middling quality engineering college for interns. 80% failed the aptitude test. Of the 20% successful, 50% failed the written. Only 10% students that pass out and get certificates are employable.

If you don't double check, you will be opening threads on PDF.

Most start out as in-house contract H1-B people. Their agency does the checking and supplies the bodies.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Name brand degree is still useful.

A local college degree will get you an interview in the area or state but a degree from Ivy League or similar will get you an interview anywhere in the country.

Okay that is true...or you get a contract job.

But it only matters for the first job. After that, employers focus more on experience.

Exactly