Green light for Eurofighter from Germany for the Turkish Air Force

[Oscar]

One more thing - the radar and electronics in Greek F-35s are worse than in the UK version.

Only the US/UK and maybe the entity has the “full” version of the plane.

I never said this version of Typhoon could beat Greek and maybe US F-35 but only that it could be a credible threat to it. Two different claims.

Off course it’s a credible threat - but at the end each plane is working off a very different design and combat philosophy.

 

[LeGenD]

One more thing - the radar and electronics in Greek F-35s are worse than in the UK version.

Only the US/UK and maybe the entity has the “full” version of the plane.

I never said this version of Typhoon could beat Greek and maybe US F-35 but only that it could be a credible threat to it. Two different claims.

How do you know that Greek F-35 are less advanced than British F-35? All I see are bad assumptions on a continuous basis.

 

[UKBengali]

How do you know that Greek F-35 are less advanced than British F-35? All I see are bad assumptions on a continuous basis.

I thought this was well-known fact that everybody knew?

They even degraded the stealth for non US/UK and maybe entity versions.

 

[hyperman]

How do you know that Greek F-35 are less advanced than British F-35? All I see are bad assumptions on a continuous basis.

Well we don't know if they are less advanced, but the ones they were trying to sell to the UAE were purposely downgraded so as to be lesser than Israeli F-35s, which was one of the reasons as to why the UAE declined, as well as the Chinese 5G blackmail. lol

 

[LeGenD]

I thought this was well-known fact that everybody knew?

They even degraded the stealth for non US/UK and maybe entity versions.

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Greece will receive F-35 in 2028 and directly from the US.
Plenty of time to develop the aircraft further.

 

[MMM-E]

Bae/Leonardo that are world leaders in electronic warfare/radar claim this beats current F-35 radar and that is credible.

LEGEND and OSCAR have American love


British BAE Systems gave EW System to the USA for using on F-35
And The ERCS MK-II AESA Radar has been developed by LEANARDO UK


The ECRS Mk 2 radar will further transform Eurofighter Typhoon’s air control, bringing a world-leading electronic warfare capability that will enable the aircraft to simultaneously detect, identify and track multiple targets in the air and on the ground.

The ECRS Mk2 radar will further transform Typhoon’s air control and provide an extraordinary capability that opponents will struggle to match


The UK has developed what it calls the "world's most advanced AESA radar" for the Eurofighter Typhoon

Its not my claim but from the BAE Systems

 

[UKBengali]

LEGEND and OSCAR have American love


British BAE Systems gave EW System to the USA for using on F-35
And The ERCS MK-II AESA Radar has been developed by LEANARDO UK


The ECRS Mk 2 radar will further transform Eurofighter Typhoon’s air control, bringing a world-leading electronic warfare capability that will enable the aircraft to simultaneously detect, identify and track multiple targets in the air and on the ground.

The ECRS Mk2 radar will further transform Typhoon’s air control and provide an extraordinary capability that opponents will struggle to match


The UK has developed what it calls the "world's most advanced AESA radar" for the Eurofighter Typhoon

Its not my claim but from the BAE Systems

Yes and the current EW package on the F-35 is a decade old.

Bae literally used that knowledge and experience to build a superior package for the Typhoon.

 

[LeGenD]

Well we don't know if they are less advanced, but the ones they were trying to sell to the UAE were purposely downgraded so as to be lesser than Israeli F-35s, which was one of the reasons as to why the UAE declined, as well as the Chinese 5G blackmail. lol

Mate, the US allows customization of F-35 as per customer requirements and there might be differences due to this factor. Israel, Finland, and Japan requested such customization. Israel also have in-house F-35 maintenance and Finland wants to do the same.

There have been other contracts related to specific modifications of the F-35 for FMS customers, even just this year. However, while thin on details, these have differed from the latest announcement in elements of their wording. While the costs involved are broadly similar in each case, they have applied to modifications that apply to multiple unidentified FMS customers, rather than just one. Among these earlier contracts, one valued at $13.7 million is for “support of sustainment efforts for flight test instrumentation air systems,” which could again point to the Israeli-specific test jet. Beyond the possible need for a refueling probe on its A models, Finland has already said that its aircraft will feature some significant differences compared to other F-35As. According to the Finnish Air Force, “the solution encompasses the maintenance capabilities to be built in Finland as well as spare components and replaceable assemblies for exceptional circumstances that are under the sole national control of Finland as well as participation in the multinational maintenance network.”
Link

These customizations are country-specific. Like Finland cannot have Israeli customization and Israel cannot have Finnish customization. This is how it is.

The US is not open to selling F-35 to UAE in the present. UAE has Chinese 5G infrastructure so this is a barrier that is to be addressed in some way or form.

Interestingly, the US developed and sold most advanced versions of F-16 to UAE - these were even better than American versions. But the US put a cap on numbers.

 

[LeGenD]

Yes and the current EW package on the F-35 is a decade old.

Bae literally used that knowledge and experience to build a superior package for the Typhoon.

I refuted your claims with evidence in here but you are back to square one and speak with such confidence as if you are an insider. The US is DECADE+ ahead of UK and other countries in developing jet fighters. Eurofighter Tranche 5 is more on the lines of CATCHING UP with American standard in the present. Eurofighter Tranche 5 is not built as per F-35 specifications but a completely different and less capable jet fighter in comparison. Time to accept facts. Who is gonna pay for imaginary superiority that you have in mind? Broke British? Technological superiority costs lot of money, bro.

 

[MMM-E]

Mate, the US allows customization of F-35 as per customer requirements and there might be differences due to this factor. Israel, Finland, and Japan requested such customization. Israel also have in-house F-35 maintenance and Finland wants to do the same.

Israel has a unique position in the project because it is the only country that is allowed to equip the F-35 with its avionics and software


The F-35 like as a flying computer
The internal programming of the F-35 includes more than 8 million lines of code, more than 4 times as much as the F-22

The Mission Data Load has to be loaded into the F-35’s onboard computer before each mission and has to be updated after each mission

More serious is the lack of mission data loads (MDL) without this MDL, the F-35 can not find its targets or escape possible threats and only one location in the US is currently capable of programming the MDL for all F-35s


even I am not talking about Autonomic Logistics Information System (ALIS)
Another major weakness of the F-35

Without American codes F-35s can not even take off for each mission

Israel is staying outside the global network with ALIS or has installed its maintenance software

 

[MMM-E]

Yes and the current EW package on the F-35 is a decade old.

Bae literally used that knowledge and experience to build a superior package for the Typhoon.

USA is not leader in EW technology but The BAE Systems from The UK

Therefore American 5th gen Fighters F-22 and F-35 using British EW technology

not USA but The UK has developed the first EW technology in the world during WW2

 

[UKBengali]

I refuted your claims with evidence in here but you are back to square one and speak with such confidence as if you are an insider. The US is DECADE+ ahead of UK and other countries in developing jet fighters. Eurofighter Tranche 5 is more on the lines of CATCHING UP with American standard in the present. Eurofighter Tranche 5 is not built as per F-35 specifications but a completely different and less capable jet fighter in comparison. Time to accept facts. Who is gonna pay for imaginary superiority that you have in mind? Broke British? Technological superiority costs lot of money, bro.

The UK built the US's EW system for F-35 and BAe is one of the largest military companies in the world by revenue due to huge sales in US and lots to rich Gulfies like KSA.

It simply used its knowledge and experience from building the F-35 EW system to design an even better one. US taxpayer paid for BAe to gain this knowledge.

Leonardo already built the AESA radar for Gripen E and also the current one that is used in Qatar Typhoons and so has plenty of experience to build a better radar than that on the current F-35 that is now a decade old.

 

[hyperman]

Mate, the US allows customization of F-35 as per customer requirements and there might be differences due to this factor. Israel, Finland, and Japan requested such customization. Israel also have in-house F-35 maintenance and Finland wants to do the same.

There have been other contracts related to specific modifications of the F-35 for FMS customers, even just this year. However, while thin on details, these have differed from the latest announcement in elements of their wording. While the costs involved are broadly similar in each case, they have applied to modifications that apply to multiple unidentified FMS customers, rather than just one. Among these earlier contracts, one valued at $13.7 million is for “support of sustainment efforts for flight test instrumentation air systems,” which could again point to the Israeli-specific test jet. Beyond the possible need for a refueling probe on its A models, Finland has already said that its aircraft will feature some significant differences compared to other F-35As. According to the Finnish Air Force, “the solution encompasses the maintenance capabilities to be built in Finland as well as spare components and replaceable assemblies for exceptional circumstances that are under the sole national control of Finland as well as participation in the multinational maintenance network.”
Link

These customizations are country-specific. Like Finland cannot have Israeli customization and Israel cannot have Finnish customization. This is how it is.

The US is not open to selling F-35 to UAE in the present. UAE has Chinese 5G infrastructure so this is a barrier that is to be addressed in some way or form.

Interestingly, the US developed and sold most advanced versions of F-16 to UAE - these were even better than American versions. But the US put a cap on numbers.

Mate

The Ones they sold Israel(F-35 Adir), Israel got their own subsystems placed on them, but thats not what i'm referring to.

I specifically remember reading about the Israeli opposition to the deal, and that this was resolved via the US agreeing to intentionally sell downgraded F-35s, that made the Israelis have an edge.

This was later codified into US law btw.

 

[Afif]

Now you’re shifting goalposts -
The Uk may have access to it and using it as benchmark for certain modes but how does it matter when the Radar being superior or not for air superiority applies to an apples to apples comparison of a stealth aircraft and a non-stealth one?

If anything, it proves ECRS is a one trick pony for the EF’s air superiority focus(against non VLO platforms) but going up against F-35s with their plethroa of sensors including the still very potent APG-81 they will struggle.

BAE was there during the F-35 R&D and initial deployment - they now serve as contractors for updates to RAF’s F-35 with NDAs between them and LM and Raytheon.

the current standard of the AN/APG-81 on more recent F-35s, particularly those operating under Block 4 software (which is being rolled out through the early 2020s), includes significant upgrades. Block 4 introduces expanded electronic warfare capabilities, improved radar range and performance, and enhanced sensor fusion. The full Block 4 capabilities would include greater data processing power, better networked target sharing, and improvements in radar jamming and countermeasure functionalities, making the APG-81 even more capable than earlier versions.

By the time Tranche 5 Eurofighters enter operational service, possibly in the late 2020s, the F-35’s radar would likely be operating under Block 4 or beyond, with further refinements. This means that while BAE Systems might have had access to earlier versions of the APG-81, the real-world comparison between the ECRS Mk3 and the APG-81 that Tranche 5 Eurofighters could face would be against a more advanced, evolved radar than what they initially saw.

Plus, F35 is getting new generation APG-85 before Typhoon gets ECRS mk2. Which will be in F35 block 4 that will be delivered to Greece. Also, I am not sure if we should be discussing completely hypothetical ECRS Mk3. For which neither any funding or not any roadmap seems to available as of now.

 

[Oscar]

Plus, F35 is getting new generation APG-85 before Typhoon gets ECRS mk2. Which will be in F35 block 4 that will be delivered to Greece. Also, I am not sure if we should be discussing completely hypothetical ECRS Mk3. For which neither any funding or not any roadmap seems to available as of now.

Just see the context of the thread and you’ll get why we’re here