GTRE Kaveri 80 KN engine(New Engine or Rebirth)?

[Deino]

@Deino BTW, KAI F/A-50 Golden Eagle, as a light weight combat jet flies with an older variant of F404 with only 78.5 KN giving it a thurst to weight ratio of 0.97 or so. It was introduced in 2005. I wonder where did you get this bright idea that no modern fighter requires an 80 KN engine.

Not to mention, Turkey's Hurjet is being designed and tested around F404 having same thrust fulfilling role similar to F/A-50 serving an advanced trainer and light combat aircraft. That too happily flies with a 78 KN engine.

I am sure you will not call them "modern", right?

I spoke about an engine for modern fighters and not for jet trainers

 

[Faceless]

Really? You want to replace a 85kN engine in an operational fighter with a 80kN engine and call it an MLU??

I think you misunderstood the news, Indian scientists refer to thrust in classes for example if you read about the new JV engine, Indian scientists always refer to a 110KN thrust class engine (110KN to 119KN) and not necessarily a engine that produces a max of 110KN similarly in this case 80KN is referring to a 80KN class engine (with max thrust between 80KN to 89KN) and not necessarily a max thrust of 80KN

The current effort is to achieve 79KN of stable wet thrust without adding any weight, currently the stable thrust is about 73KN

https://twitter.com/x/status/1696110373269594444

 

[Vi-va]

I spoke about an engine for modern fighters and not for jet trainers

80kn, Thrust-to-weight ratio will be around 7 (afterburning)
F414-GE-400 Thrust-to-weight ratio is 9 (used by Saab JAS 39E/F Gripen)

 

[Guynextdoor]

evolution

 

[Deino]

evolution

That’s all clear and logical, but the point is - especially given how long development of the Kaveri already drags on - it is neither something special nor remarkable and while some here on the one side will surely hail his again as in other threads to other topics as „breakthrough to overall dominance“ they bash all from China and portray the built quality of J-10c, J-16 and J-20 as „substandard“‘, as typical Chinese shit and that these „types will fall apart“ as soon as they are in the air, even if all are using engines of much higher thrust since years.

It’s just to but it in a correct perception.

 

[Guynextdoor]

That’s all clear and logical, but the point is - especially given how long development of the Kaveri already drags on - it is neither something special nor remarkable and while some here on the one side will surely hail his again as in other threads to other topics as „breakthrough to overall dominance“ they bash all from China and portray the built quality of J-10c, J-16 and J-20 as „substandard“‘, as typical Chinese shit and that these „types will fall apart“ as soon as they are in the air, even if all are using engines of much higher thrust since years.

It’s just to but it in a correct perception.

Doesn't matter. The key issue with kaveri was not in the design but metallurgy. At one point the turbines that took the biggest heat would give way and some kind of melting was noticed. if the objective plan now is to create a higher KN engine then that means particular issue is now confidently addressed.

You may not know this but the MMR originally planned for Tejas had similar issues. Once mastered, both AWACS and AESA designed and built in India are deployed. All it needs is fundamental grasp of tech, looks like we are finally getting there with Engines. If all that Kaveri does is power trainer jets, we will still save billions. As for trolls, let them talk.

 

[kaku]

That’s all clear and logical, but the point is - especially given how long development of the Kaveri already drags on - it is neither something special nor remarkable and while some here on the one side will surely hail his again as in other threads to other topics as „breakthrough to overall dominance“ they bash all from China and portray the built quality of J-10c, J-16 and J-20 as „substandard“‘, as typical Chinese shit and that these „types will fall apart“ as soon as they are in the air, even if all are using engines of much higher thrust since years.

It’s just to but it in a correct perception.

What is TTSL of that so called engine?

Here he remain blank.

 

[JaneBhiDoYaaron]

Jet engines are hard to make and very few nations made it. Path is full of obstacles and challenges and India is doing good job specially in last decade as government has put weight behind home grown defense industry. So tide is turning as India is chipping away problems.

 

[Deino]

What is TTSL of that so called engine?

Here he remain blank.

You know that this information is barely available and even if, you won't belive it anyway since surely "from Chinese sources" only, So why then asking.

Anyway, and that is a fact even you cannot deny: All current CHinese combat aircraft (excluding as it seems the J-15) are using WS-10 variants of some sort ... the aerlier J-11B since 2009, and later models all since 2019. The WS-10 regardless what you may doubt is undeniable an engine in a class well above the Kaveri, it is built by now in hundreds (most likely even already well beyond 1000) in service.

While some here are hyping a 80 kN engine with a development since decades and the hope "now we managed to solve the issues"!

You get the point?

Jet engines are hard to make and very few nations made it. Path is full of obstacles and challenges and India is doing good job specially in last decade as government has put weight behind home grown defense industry. So tide is turning as India is chipping away problems.

Quite funny we hear the same story already since 20 years, if not 30 ... at least this is the time I'm following Chinese and Indian aerospace developments.
So, while China surely had its issues, they are barely announcing anything ... while from India we hear the same wild claims and chest-bumping as if "soon we will" since then and again nothing happens.

 

[Guynextdoor]

You know that this information is barely available and even if, you won't belive it anyway since surely "from Chinese sources" only, So why then asking.

Anyway, and that is a fact even you cannot deny: All current CHinese combat aircraft (excluding as it seems the J-15) are using WS-10 variants of some sort ... the aerlier J-11B since 2009, and later models all since 2019. The WS-10 regardless what you may doubt is undeniable an engine in a class well above the Kaveri, it is built by now in hundreds (most likely even already well beyond 1000) in service.

While some here are hyping a 80 kN engine with a development since decades and the hope "now we managed to solve the issues"!

You get the point?




Quite funny we hear the same story already since 20 years, if not 30 ... at least this is the time I'm following Chinese and Indian aerospace developments.
So, while China surely had its issues, they are barely announcing anything ... while from India we hear the same wild claims and chest-bumping as if "soon we will" since then and again nothing happens.

Doesn't matter. Once the tech is established you can make it as big or small as you want. With this Indian engines will defnitely power Indian planes. This is not a breakthrough to make one look good on a forum. This is the kind of tuff that saves billions.

 

[DevendraRajput]

I spoke about an engine for modern fighters and not for jet trainers

Oh? How about F-50 then? Single seat variant of F/A-50. It is under development and uses same 78KN F404 engine. No modern fighter, eh? LOL!

South Korean ministry plans single-seat FA-50 investment

South Korea's Ministry of Trade, Industry and Energy (MOTIE) has announced a plan to fund the development of the single-seat version of the Korea Aerospace Industries...

www.janes.com

 

[DevendraRajput]

80kn, Thrust-to-weight ratio will be around 7 (afterburning)
F414-GE-400 Thrust-to-weight ratio is 9 (used by Saab JAS 39E/F Gripen)

More like ratio of 7.5~7.8. Kaveri is also undergoing weight reduction as well. Its current 1180 KG weight is one of the reason it was rejected. It desired weight is under 1100 KG.

BTW, F404 also has T/W ratio of 7.8.

 

[Deino]

Oh? How about F-50 then? Single seat variant of F/A-50. It is under development and uses same 78KN F404 engine. No modern fighter, eh? LOL!

South Korean ministry plans single-seat FA-50 investment

South Korea's Ministry of Trade, Industry and Energy (MOTIE) has announced a plan to fund the development of the single-seat version of the Korea Aerospace Industries...

www.janes.com

Please re-read my reply above! These are jet trainer or at best light combat aircraft ... as such not really relevant

Doesn't matter. Once the tech is established you can make it as big or small as you want. With this Indian engines will defnitely power Indian planes. This is not a breakthrough to make one look good on a forum. This is the kind of tuff that saves billions.

And how long are Indian engineers are claiming this "it's all that easy, soon we will have"! and why should it be true this time? ... and even if it works this time, how long will it take?
IMO it si still too late and too weak for the Tejas or TEDBF and the issues to "upscale it" are not taken realistically. But let's wait and see.

 

[DevendraRajput]

Please re-read my reply above! These are jet trainer or at best light combat aircraft ... as such not really relevant

F-50 is indeed light combat aircraft and NOT a trainer.

So light combat aircraft are not Modern Fighter Aircrafts or are irrelevant? LOL! Where do you get such kind of weird ideas?

 

[DevendraRajput]

And how long are Indian engineers are claiming this "it's all that easy, soon we will have"! and why should it be true this time? ... and even if it works this time, how long will it take?

Now you are straight away lying. Which Indian engineer working on gas turbine said "its all that easy"???

More over, Indian gas turbine program was highly underfunded as compared to chinese or any western program.

Now why should it be true this time? Well, Indian space vehicle program had similar issues, so did its Radar program. Both have produced working products now.

And even if it takes 10-15 years from now, it will be fine. India has massive and ongoing need for military jet engines. Whenever Indian jet engines arrive, they will reduce India's expense on developing and maintaining its fleet of fighters. That savings is in 10s of billions of dollars.