HAL LCA Tejas: Updates, News & Discussions

[Joe Shearer]

Ignoring typical jingoism and pointless salt rubbing - this was what stood out to me.

Im not sure of the Gentleman’s true links to the program or otherwise but @Joe Shearer also pointed out such QC issues YEARS ago.
Even from subcontractors.
View attachment 101006

The goal isn’t to just berate HAL or idiots harping trying to derail the thread.
But rather given the baggage but also the change - what would be the shortest path forward to make fixes?

@AjayGhatak @Faceless @agidest

Perhaps the idea balked at by a certain old known bigoted fellow on the Indian forum may not be a bad idea - integrate the IAF - the best ones- into the HAL signoff process.

That was ALWAYS the system earlier. I never saw it myself, even from my perch half in and half out, but it was said by old IAF people still in HAL that this was the invariable practice until as late as Wollen.

From that sw**e Nair onwards, it was HAL internal only, and Mohanty and Baweja never managed to stem the rot.

 

[Joe Shearer]

That being said - incorrect wiring - not testing systems under all conditions before writing off(leading to everything from blank screens mid flight to buttons not doing anything) ensued until outside help was sought - fingers pointed internally - “Sir I took him to task” statements made - eventually resolved things.

Oh boy.
The old, old story.
ALH was the only exception, and even on that, some designer screwed up using the wrong metallurgy for a component on the drive shaft, Baweja was battling with another for the top job, so the helicopter had to fly. Every crash of that beautiful machine was due to insufficient testing; with adequate stress testing, that damn part would have been detected years before.

 

[Cryptonian]

how many mk1a are in service?

Your Blk3 got AESA just 2 years back, So Mk1A is not as behind as Pakistanis mock it to be. Only problem is Indian Airforce not choosing Block-path and twiddling thumbs till full-fledged mk1A was built.

 

[harpy1]

Your Blk3 got AESA just 2 years back, So Mk1A is not as behind as Pakistanis mock it to be. Only problem is Indian Airforce not choosing Block-path and twiddling thumbs till full-fledged mk1A was built.

That was my point the air force cheifs of India kept moving the goal posts
They could have had 100 mark 1 by now but no we want
Aesa radars
We want better engines
We want weight reduction to increase range

Pakistan we will take block one fifty planes yes
We take 100 block two with out Aesa
Then we get block 3 later with improving technology

This is the difference in attitude
Indian air force had one eye on big imports which modi said no

 

[Ak01]

Your Blk3 got AESA just 2 years back, So Mk1A is not as behind as Pakistanis mock it to be. Only problem is Indian Airforce not choosing Block-path and twiddling thumbs till full-fledged mk1A was built.

Again,

I ask you, how many MK1A are in service?

This point is quite moot even, another iteration is already being developed as this one rolls of the production line. By the end of this year we will be at 50+ airframes produced, with next year that number hitting 75-80.

 

[Joe Shearer]

That was my point the air force cheifs of India kept moving the goal posts
They could have had 100 mark 1 by now but no we want
Aesa radars
We want better engines
We want weight reduction to increase range

Pakistan we will take block one fifty planes yes
We take 100 block two with out Aesa
Then we get block 3 later with improving technology

This is the difference in attitude
Indian air force had one eye on big imports which modi said no

Completely agree.

This - the way the Air Force acted - is one tripod of the three that holds back all defence technology development.

 

[Joe Shearer]

This is the difference in attitude
Indian air force had one eye on big imports which modi said no

They also shot for the moon. NEVER did they consider the Gripen when it was offered first; that would have kept up numbers at a highly affordable cost, and filled a huge gap in the line-up, while DRDO, ADE and HAL blundered around developing indigenous technology.

 

[harpy1]

They also shot for the moon. NEVER did they consider the Gripen when it was offered first; that would have kept up numbers at a highly affordable cost, and filled a huge gap in the line-up, while DRDO, ADE and HAL blundered around developing indigenous technology.

Every single air chief the last two decades should be court marshalled for gross negligence and compromising national security
Incompetent fools all of them

 

[harpy1]

Why are we flying 40 mig21. And over 100 jaguars in 2025 when the lca mark 1 entered service in 2016.
It's rubbish planning
We should have gone 100 mark 1 straight away

 

[Ak01]

They also shot for the moon. NEVER did they consider the Gripen when it was offered first; that would have kept up numbers at a highly affordable cost, and filled a huge gap in the line-up, while DRDO, ADE and HAL blundered around developing indigenous technology.

yeah tbh, having an Indianised Gripen would have probably an option which then Indian industry could launch parallel dev of a MK2 or MWF based off of the airframe

 

[kmc_chacko]

Why are we flying 40 mig21. And over 100 jaguars in 2025 when the lca mark 1 entered service in 2016.
It's rubbish planning
We should have gone 100 mark 1 straight away

we have to wait till 2028 for Migs & Jaguars replacements and If production of Tejas is eased out and as per plan Mk2, TEDBF & AMCA rolls out then i am of assumption that life of 70+ Jaguars will be extended for another 4-7 years by either under utilisation or by using it for testing & training purpose.

I would have preferred either of Su-57/Su-75/F-35 to replace 100+ Jaguars & 40+ Mig-21 total almost 9 squadrons and Mirage & Mig-29s with Rafale almost 5 squadrons.

 

[Joe Shearer]

yeah tbh, having an Indianised Gripen would have probably an option which then Indian industry could launch parallel dev of a MK2 or MWF based off of the airframe

Precisely. Actually, the Swedes have been willing to go the extra mile, and transfer of technology, given a large enough order, might not have been an obstacle.

The other obvious option would be to relax the Tejas airframe dimensions a little, not much, and use the avionics, the AESA radar, the weapons systems, the glass cockpit either from the Gripen, or as developed locally for the Tejas. Only the airframe of the Tejas would have to be dealt with properly; as of now, being made of composites (largely), the dimensions are never as factory-production precise as metallic parts out of a production line would be.

The IAF has been screaming about this for ages.

As boat-builders in Taiwan, in China, in Holland, in Sweden, and in the US have already found and established, making precisely fitting components out of composites is no rocket science.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Every single air chief the last two decades should be court marshalled for gross negligence and compromising national security

Last two decades?
That's nonsense.

 

[AjayGhatak]

ALH was the only exception, and even on that, some designer screwed up using the wrong metallurgy for a component on the drive shaft

I remember that too. Became big news.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I would have preferred either of Su-57/Su-75/F-35 to replace 100+ Jaguars & 40+ Mig-21 total almost 9 squadrons and Mirage & Mig-29s with Rafale almost 5 squadrons.

Over-reach, IMHO. None of those aircraft is a direct substitute for the Jaguar, that was a very specialised attack aircraft, and none of them is a suitable light-weight, low-cost fighter replacing the MiG21.

We need to keep in mind the role for which these glamorous pieces of equipment were designed and built. It wasn't for point interception at all.