Hangor Class Submarine | Updates & Discussion

[puttputt]

You’re right, they Pakistan will have to pick something off the shelf (slightly modified) as it can’t put in much funding into R&D. There is speculation that China is developing a nuclear battery plug for SSKs, so Pakistan could be the another beneficiary of this technology, after the PLAN. Not a reactor, but a limited life battery, that could have to be swapped out every 15-20 years, going based on similar technology being developed in the US. Perhaps for the foreseeable future, Pakistan could go for a version of the Type 032 (so it can carry longer range missiles), if equipped with such batteries, to ensure it can allow these subs to operate for months at depth and operating very quietly. The Type 032 is not a small submarine, so it would need to be either packed fully with large conventional batteries or have at least a couple of these nuclear batteries. I speculate that Pakistan is with for Chinese tech to mature in this regard and to get feed back after operating the Hangors class subs for some time.

Btw, an enlarged attack boat with 8-12 VLS tubes and one nuclear battery could also be built, for the PLAN, and then an export approved version for Pakistan. It would be similar in weight as the new South Korean KSS-3 Block 2 (4000 tons), which has 10 VLS tubes of 0.9 meter diameter and 10 meter length.

China has a need to field SSKs that are even quieter, can replace all pre-Type 039B SSKs, and deal with a growing fleet among the coalition of nations looking to contain China and its SLOCs.

Dosan Ahn Changho-class submarine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

See the propulsion at 12:34 onwards.

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Pakistan will design and build its own SSN. We're not trying to brag or anything, but the issue is that the strategic assets must be 100% under our own direct control. The moment COTS platforms are brought into the mix, foreign OEMs (and their sponsor states) will have a hand in our program and our ability to leverage it.

 

[kimjongun]

Can anyone tell what role each submarine will provide considering well have the agostas and the 8 hangors....like will all of the subs be carrying Baburs or will some be kept for antiship role or even as attack role against other subs....
Do we have enough space for all the subs at karachi considering gwadar and pasni dont have much to offer?
and can anyone tell how are we planning to protect these very important and costly assests in the vent of war from missile strikes at the dry docks???
Also is there a possibility of atleast one of these in the waters at ay time? like
a CASD but with conventional subs...it would cost a lot but would ease the pressure...
(i aint no expert so feel free to correct me)
@Quwa , @Oscar , @Ak01

 

[WARSIDT]

Turkey's military surely knows what is a hypersonic ballistic missile better than you or me.. ..

Yes, TSK (Turkish Armed Forces) knows this. But the news channels don’t. Basically, in the first presentation the company reps mentioned the speed numbers, and the news channels instantly grabbed those words. Then when the rep later talked about a semi-parabolic trajectory and using guidance and countermeasures for defense, the news channels suddenly acted like the missile turned into a hypersonic glide vehicle. So this is just a ballistic missile. Being hypersonic during the dive phase is normal by nature. Unlike many Iranian missiles, this one is much more accurate, they even said under 10 meters, and the tests showed that.

Honestly, we know ROKETSAN is designing rockets for TUA (Turkish Space Agency), meaning they are working on launch vehicles and doing sounding rocket launches. In the TAYFUN presentation, they even showed that rocket. So people saying Türkiye is behind Pakistan in ballistic tech sounds weird. The only difference between Türkiye and Pakistan is that Türkiye doesn’t have nuclear weapons. But tech-wise it’s not behind. It just has no reason to pursue that. And even looking at the design, the rocket is more compact and the engine efficiency during ascent is clearly better, which already tells you something.

So saying Türkiye can’t help Pakistan in ballistic tech isn’t correct. It could actually help a lot. But when a country like China, which really knows this field, is available, why would Pakistan pick Türkiye for that?

 

[Princeps]

Can anyone tell what role each submarine will provide considering well have the agostas and the 8 hangors....like will all of the subs be carrying Baburs or will some be kept for antiship role or even as attack role against other subs....
Do we have enough space for all the subs at karachi considering gwadar and pasni dont have much to offer?
and can anyone tell how are we planning to protect these very important and costly assests in the vent of war from missile strikes at the dry docks???
Also is there a possibility of atleast one of these in the waters at ay time? like
a CASD but with conventional subs...it would cost a lot but would ease the pressure...
(i aint no expert so feel free to correct me)
@Quwa , @Oscar , @Ak01

These are attack submarines so obviously their primarily role is anti surface and anti sub.

 

[Hussain]

These are attack submarines so obviously their primarily role is anti surface and anti sub.

and secondary role?

 

[kimjongun]

These are attack submarines so obviously their primarily role is anti surface and anti sub.

so they cant be devided into groups for seprate roles? like some carrying baburs some only to hunt indian CBG...we cant risk our nuclear triad(it is a very small triad)...CASD is done on nuclear subs but we can do a scale down version of it no?
Even india hasn't attempted to do CASD cuz its maintanace heavy...so for us it would be difficult....but that doesnt mean we should just stick with all our subs at karachi waiting for an indian navy initial strike.....

 

[kimjongun]

people saying Türkiye is behind Pakistan in ballistic tech sounds weird.

It isn't weird , its a fact.

 

[Hussain]

It isn't weird , its a fact.

People aren't aware of how much time, effort, R&D we have put in, just over the last one decade as an example, so make tend to make these factually incorrect statements.

 

[Yasser76]

and secondary role?

I think things may be deliberately ambigious here.

Makes sense to keep the Indians guessing that any Hangor class may be carrying nuclear strike missiles.

With a fleet of 8, you can easily expect 3 on patrol at any one time.

 

[WARSIDT]

It isn't weird , its a fact.

This might be a fact according to the blind Pakistani nationalists. Anyway, it's pointless to argue with the ignorant and the nationalists.

 

[Ak01]

And even looking at the design, the rocket is more compact and the engine efficiency during ascent is clearly better, which already tells you something.

i mean, its a well established fact that that the turkish bm's trace their (fairly recent) origins back to Chinese export missiles.

do with that what you will.

 

[WARSIDT]

i mean, its a well established fact that that the turkish bm's trace their (fairly recent) origins back to Chinese export missiles.

do with that what you will.

ah how nice, you’re explaining something surface-level that you barely know, to me. amazing stuff.

By the way, tell the truth dude. The issue isn’t that we get technological help from China. The issue is that Türkiye, which is on the NATO side, took ballistic tech transfer from China and ended up surpassing nuclear-armed Pakistan in this field. Stop jumping around your words just to avoid saying the real reason.

 

[kimjongun]

This might be a fact according to the blind Pakistani nationalists. Anyway, it's pointless to argue with the ignorant and the nationalists.

Do you posses MIRV capabilities?
Do you have AShBMs?
Do even any of your missiles have multiple stages?
Have you ever been sanctioned by the US cuz you are punching way above your pay grade and might hurt his sugar daddy israel?
Have you made your neighbors invest in expensive ABM systems?
i can go and talk about so many point without talking about the nuclear warhead things...The one who is ignorant is you...you just cant understand facts turkey maybe very strong in indeginous sensors,radars etc but when it comes to Ballistic/Strategic missiles you guys are still very far...

 

[kimjongun]

ah how nice, you’re explaining something surface-level that you barely know, to me. amazing stuff.

By the way, tell the truth dude. The issue isn’t that we get technological help from China. The issue is that Türkiye, which is on the NATO side, took ballistic tech transfer from China and ended up surpassing nuclear-armed Pakistan in this field. Stop jumping around your words just to avoid saying the real reason.

Slow down smooth brain

 

[WARSIDT]

Ak01 - Hussain​

Alright guys let’s drop this pissing contest. Like I said in my first reply, Pakistan and Türkiye look at the ballistic field in completely different ways. Pakistan wants to hit with a nuclear warhead. Türkiye wants to hit with a conventional one, so whether Pakistan makes a missile with 150 m CEP or 10 m CEP doesn’t really matter for them because whatever they hit is going to be gone anyway. And like I said, getting help from China or doing a joint project makes more sense for Pakistan, especially in the hypersonic field.

On the other hand Türkiye wants to hit a 10 or 20 meter area and because of all the NATO standards talk they try to make the missile look as “solid” as possible. Plus they develop counter-measure tech to punch through air defense systems like Israel’s. And the main point is that Türkiye needs accuracy and quality, not just range.

This is why in my first reply I mentioned TUA and the fact that ROKETSAN is designing sounding rockets and the “Şimşek” space launch rocket. Meaning if they wanted range, the country already has the tech to move toward ICBMs. And in the same message I mentioned Pakistan’s nuclear capability for the same reason. One country wants range, the other wants compactness and accuracy. Their tactics are different.


Fun debate, have a nice day.