Hangor Class Submarine | Updates & Discussion

[Corax]

Not implausible completely, even a cannisterized missile (like the CM-708 UNB just launched) is fired in a ballistic manner.

Nothing is implausible, but why would you even try to adapt a ballistic missile the size of smash into torpedo tube lunched? There's a significant difference between a small booster to launch a cruise missile from torpedo tubes and launching a large BM. There's probably a good reason why even the likes of North Korea never bothered, but I guess the PN is proving the world wrong lol

 

[K2RULEZ]

Watch the screen.

This is awesome. We can already see where this is headed.

 

[Pakistan First]

Exactly, that's why I asked: why this C70xUxx when we have Harba, Smash, etc.? What additional capability does this bring to the table?

You don't read reply and again ask same question ?

Below is clear answer to Why this and why not harbah, smash etc.

- SMASH, so far is ship/land launched. Submarine variant is highly unlikely, will require design change.

- Babur-III: Its already available but its not Anti-Ship missile. Its land attack missile.

- Harbah: No submarine launched version available.

- P282: ? I was telling everyone including "think tank" members years before that P282 and SMASH are one and same missile. The SMASH is the P282.

So obviously, Hangors needed an anti-ship missile. This missile is good, given its launched from 60m depth and sea skimming flight path, very close to surface of water. I was expecting YJ-18 for Hangors too. I suspect that YJ-18 might be procured as well in future. Different attack vectors with different angles & speeds will be death sentence for the enemy fleet.

 

[PakistaniDefender]

*CM-708UNB* is the budget sub-launched workhorse. *YJ-18E* is the top-tier dual-speed killer. Different league.
Spec CM-708UNB YJ-18E
**Origin** CASIC, export version of C-802/C-803 CASIC, export version of YJ-18 (NATO: CH-SS-NX-13)
**Launch** Submarine torpedo tube only Ship VLS, submarine, coastal container
**Range** **290km** - capped for MTCR export **350km** export / 220-540km domestic
**Speed** All subsonic ~Mach 0.8-0.9 Subsonic cruise Mach 0.8, then **Mach 2.5-3.0 terminal sprint**
**Flight profile** Sea-skimming whole way Cruises low, then climbs, ejects booster and dives supersonic in last ~40km
**Warhead** ~155kg semi-armor piercing **140-300kg HE**
**Guidance** Inertial + satellite + radar seeker Beidou INS + datalink update + active radar
**Purpose** Hit medium/large ships, some land attack Anti-ship + land attack, designed to defeat Aegis
*Which is better? YJ-18E, by far:*

1. *Harder to stop:* A subsonic CM-708UNB can be shot down by modern CIWS / ESSM. YJ-18E's supersonic terminal dash + snake maneuver gives you <10 seconds to react.
2. *Longer range + bigger punch*
3. *More flexible:* YJ-18E can be VLS-launched from destroyers like Type 052D/055.

*Why CM-708UNB is still used then?*
Cost and export. It's MTCR-compliant and cheap. That's why Pakistan Navy just test-fired CM-708UNB from its new Hangor-class subs - YJ-18E is more expensive and China restricts it more closely.

If you had a choice for a modern navy: YJ-18E every time.

 

[studsmart]

- SMASH, so far is ship/land launched. Submarine variant is highly unlikely, will require design change.

- Babur-III: Its already available but its not Anti-Ship missile. Its land attack missile.

- Harbah: No submarine launched version available.

- P282: ? I was telling everyone including "think tank" members years before that P282 and SMASH are one and same missile. The SMASH is the P282.

So obviously, Hangors needed an anti-ship missile. This missile is good, given its launched from 60m depth and sea skimming flight path, very close to surface of water. I was expecting YJ-18 for Hangors too. I suspect that YJ-18 might be procured as well in future. Different attack vectors with different angles & speeds will be death sentence for the enemy fleet.

I did read the response but what make we wonder is that PN had 10 yeasr if lead to time to modify these missiles to be adopted on the newly inducted submarines, instead they rely on buying off the shelf soutrion while there are ready to use solutions available that could have been modfied and tailor-made for Hangor. However, they missed the opportunity and wasted money on a solution that did not add a new dimension. Same subsonic missile with under 300 KM range; this could have been a modified Harba. At least we could have saved foreign exchange. Or, better, we could have developed a sub-launched supersonic missile with greater range. Now that would have been a new launch dimension. Remember, PN had 10+ years.

 

[Hussain]

maybe launch depth?
this missile can be launched from a depth of 60m.

slight correction: can be launched from a depth of "more than" 60m

 

[White Privilege]

I did read the response but what make we wonder is that PN had 10 yeasr if lead to time to modify these missiles to be adopted on the newly inducted submarines, instead they rely on buying off the shelf soutrion while there are ready to use solutions available that could have been modfied and tailor-made for Hangor. However, they missed the opportunity and wasted money on a solution that did not add a new dimension. Same subsonic missile with under 300 KM range; this could have been a modified Harba. At least we could have saved foreign exchange. Or, better, we could have developed a sub-launched supersonic missile with greater range. Now that would have been a new launch dimension. Remember, PN had 10+ years.

Modern naval combat is 90% missiles, guns don't matter now,just like BVR missiles in the air. Even if we have a steam ship, it is relevant and deadly if it packs a YJ-21 launcher.

 

[Pakistan First]

I did read the response but what make we wonder is that PN had 10 yeasr if lead to time to modify these missiles to be adopted on the newly inducted submarines, instead they rely on buying off the shelf soutrion while there are ready to use solutions available that could have been modfied and tailor-made for Hangor. However, they missed the opportunity and wasted money on a solution that did not add a new dimension. Same subsonic missile with under 300 KM range; this could have been a modified Harba. At least we could have saved foreign exchange. Or, better, we could have developed a sub-launched supersonic missile with greater range. Now that would have been a new launch dimension. Remember, PN had 10+ years.

Yeah I got your point. But, I think this missile was part of the overall package / deal. Remember the first four submarines were to be inducted by 2022-23. So perhaps PN needed a full combat ready submarines without new experiments.

Harbah was a great replacement for ancient / legacy Harpoons & Exocets. From past test experiments I had concluded not only it had more range but it used to be flying at lower altitude before striking targets. Harpoons used to be at much higher altitudes. However, after seeing this test I can safely tell that this missile onboard Hangars fly even lower. That makes detection very difficult. That sits very well with overall covertness that a submarine aims for. So I am actually very satisfied with this missile onboard Hangars.

Also note, the missile is secondary weapon for Hangars. Its primary weapon will always be its heavy weight torpedoes. These silent AIP subs can move around in enemy waters in deep depths. There's no known technology to detect a submarine at 100s of meter depth unless exact coordinates are known Or submarine making a lot of noise. By the time, torpedo is on its way towards a destroyer, its already too late to do anything against the sub.