India and Brazil in initial talks for Tejas fighters, Dhruv helicopters and C390 transports

[Justin TruDont]

Be that as it may, the C-130J isn't the most modern transport out there now. The C-390 is a clean sheet design that has several benefits over the C-130J.

- it's powered by 2 turbofans versus the turboprops of the C-130J. Gives it higher top speed, which means time to destination is reduced.
- KC-390 tanker version will give the IAF a ready-made solution to it's major tanker shortage. The C-130J being slower is not as suitable for the tanker role as the faster KC-390.

C390 is off course a brand new clean sheet design

But how many of them are actually in service around the world
Compared to more than 1000 C130s

The biggest advantage of C130 is its ability to land and take off from anywhere , even a flattened mud field.

That capability will come in useful when enemy is targeting airfields in wartime and you need to supply front line troops at night time

 

[Nuffle]

What logic is that ? Brazil bought Grippens previously, with US engine.

It's because the commander of the FAB (Brazil Air Force) said that the force traditionally works with three aircraft models, I believe that this would pave the way for the Tejas to replace the F-5.

This smells like completely fanciful decisions or they are putting pressure on Brazilian politicians to approve more defense budget to guarantee more orders for the Gripen. The same thing is with the F-16.

 

[MirageBlue]

Not gonna happen with US made engine. Iaf should focus on expanding its fleet instead lol.

This has nothing to do with the IAF. They're going ahead with their plans as such and aren't in any way looking at the outcome of these negotiations. Besides, HAL has set up the assembly lines to produce upto 24 Tejas Mk1A annually.

Time will tell what the results of the negotiations are. The US is unlikely to block engine sales to a friendly country, else there wouldn't have been any KAI T-50/FA-50 sales to date whereas there have been nearly a 100 export sales notched up.

 

[UKBengali]

This has nothing to do with the IAF. They're going ahead with their plans as such and aren't in any way looking at the outcome of these negotiations. Besides, HAL has set up the assembly lines to produce upto 24 Tejas Mk1A annually.

Time will tell what the results of the negotiations are. The US is unlikely to block engine sales to a friendly country, else there wouldn't have been any KAI T-50/FA-50 sales to date whereas there have been nearly a 100 export sales notched up.

US sees India as a future competitor and knows Brazil resents US dominance of the Americas.

They may well block sale of the engine to stop any sale.

 

[MirageBlue]

The spoiler in this scenario is the KAI F/A-50.

Its got momentum via the Poland sale, and has a reputation for being the low-cost Western-aligned fighter.

Like the Tejas, the F/A-50 also leverages integration with a variety of Israeli munitions and systems, which the Brazilians use.

They can also slot in the T-50 as their LIFT.

Capability wise, the Tejas as a single seater is more optimized for the fighter role than the FA-50 which has a bigger dual trainer role. The size of the radar, the weapons integrated, the engine with the higher thrust, all point to that.

What we don't know as yet is whether the FAB is going to evaluate Tejas Mk1A or Tejas Mk2 which might have it's first flight around March 2026. Their current plans are to retire their F-5 fleet by 2030, which may just give adequate time for the Tejas Mk2 to complete it's flight trials. But weapons integration testing will take more time for sure.

By 2030, the Tejas Mk1A production will be well on it's way into the second batch of 97 Tejas Mk1As that the IAF is going to procure from HAL. So from the POV of what is less risky, more mature fighter, it will be the Tejas Mk1A. Cheaper as well. But the Tejas Mk2 will surpass it in being more modern avionics wise, payload, range, etc.

What you need to account for is that the Brazilians want the Embraer C-390 to win the IAF's MTA contract. If the Indian MoD is smart, they'll tie it to a suitably large contract for Tejas fighters - else the C-130J for which almost the entire fuselage is already being built in India is very viable option.

 

[MirageBlue]

US sees India as a future competitor and knows Brazil resents US dominance of the Americas.

They may well block sale of the engine to stop any sale.

Then the FAB won't be able to go in for second hand F-16s either will it? Nor KAI FA-50s. And how is it that the Gripen E with F-414s is being added to the FAB fleet?

 

[UKBengali]

Then the FAB won't be able to go in for second hand F-16s either will it? Nor KAI FA-50s. And how is it that the Gripen E with F-414s is being added to the FAB fleet?

lol. US does not see either S Korea or Sweden as future competitors.

US may well see India the same way in 30 years as it sees China now.

 

[MirageBlue]

There are currently 0 Tejas mk1a in service because of engine delivery delayed. How is India able to export Tejas without having any to begin with? The US will have a final say in the end.

Several factors have to be taken into account first.

GE has a contract with HAL for 99 engines. That contract stands. Engine deliveries are delayed, the contract isn't cancelled or anything.

HAL is going to deliver Tejas Mk1As to the IAF with Category B F-404 engines that were held in reserve. Till new engine deliveries begin.

The FAB has not yet even begun to negotiate for Tejas Mk1A or Tejas Mk2s. Assuming it starts in 2025, it will take time for any such contract to be signed, and as per standard industry norms, it'll take another 36 months after that for the first fighter to be delivered. By any OEM.

So there really isn't any issue related to the current GE engine delays.

 

[MirageBlue]

lol. US does not see either S Korea or Sweden as future competitors.

US may well see India the same way in 30 years as it sees China now.

Unlikely. India isn't going to be as big as China in the next 30 years nor is India a Communist regime to want to challenge the US directly, the way the Chinese are attempting to.

BTW, GE F-414 assembly in India with 80% ToT negotiations are ongoing and as per latest reports, there are no hitches in the negotiations as yet.

 

[UKBengali]

Unlikely. India isn't going to be as big as China in the next 30 years nor is India a Communist regime to want to challenge the US directly, the way the Chinese are attempting to.

BTW, GE F-414 assembly in India with 80% ToT negotiations are ongoing and as per latest reports, there are no hitches in the negotiations as yet.

It is nothing to do with communism or “challenge US directly”.

US broke up European unity and you think they won’t try and keep India down as well?

US just wants to remain dominant and will try to sabotage any other country that threatens this.

 

[MirageBlue]

It is nothing to do with communism or “challenge US directly”.

US broke up European unity and you think they won’t try and keep India down as well?

US just wants to remain dominant and will try to sabotage any other country that threatens this.

That thing is not happening till China remains the US' predominant adversary. India is nowhere near being seen as that kind of an adversary threat, especially not given how the US is trying to keep India on it's side for now.

Anyway, I'm not too interested in all these US-India strategic conspiracy discussions. It has no bearing on this topic.