India Blocks Turkey’s BRICS Bid Over Pakistan Ties

[r3alist]

There was no difficulty on the expressive or confirming side.
There was sustained difficulty in understanding that there is no inclination to get involved in this bloody cocktail of violence that the two sides have got themselves into. Our striking postures is as good a correction to the horrors going on, as lighting a candle and marching in any distant city might be..

Again, straw man, involvement asked no one at all

As I previously said, if you want to be as significant and important as you aspire then probing questions will be asked.

You simply answer them, not question the question

Ofcourse that today's India is "neutral" to a settler colonial project happening in plain sight is illuminating given the history of the nation.

This is just obvious stuff joe

 

[r3alist]

@Joe Shearer @r3alist Gentlemen, your discussion on India being source and amplifier of anti-Palestinian or Islamophobic propaganda deserves its own thread and not diverting this one.

I won't dwell on it, though I link it back to BRICS and the average sentiment will be much more empathetic to Gaza, rather than an inert
neutrality

This you might argue can be thrown in to the mix of things that might make India uneasy in brics

 

[r3alist]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[hussain0216]

There is a bigger understanding that you miss however. Pakistan as a country has very little standing in international finance.

BRICS at its core is a new financial and banking system. Its neither a new military alliance (like NATO) nor a geopolitical alliance and not even a trade treaty (like RCEP).

Because lets face it, while India, Russia, China etc have 100s of differences, they agree on one thing. They need a way to conduct trade with whomsoever they want without interference of white-house.

Thats the crux of BRICS. All these countries want to be able to trade even if America denies them access to its dollar based banking settlement system.

And in that dimension, Pakistan is a nobody.

India has mass poverty, rape epidemic, mass communal and multiple problems
It's isolated in its region and not trusted, spreading a dangerous brand of hindutva extremism

Now if India can partake based on it's 1.4 billion overpopulated state, then surely the purpose of BRICS is to.expand to include large markets today and tomorrow like Pakistan or Turkey

No, you think we don't know indians or H's in particular?


I repeat, China will need to India under control to ensure BRICS succeeds or it will be as worthless as saarc

 

[r3alist]

There is a bigger understanding that you miss however. Pakistan as a country has very little standing in international finance.

BRICS at its core is a new financial and banking system. Its neither a new military alliance (like NATO) nor a geopolitical alliance and not even a trade treaty (like RCEP).

Because lets face it, while India, Russia, China etc have 100s of differences, they agree on one thing. They need a way to conduct trade with whomsoever they want without interference of white-house.

Thats the crux of BRICS. All these countries want to be able to trade even if America denies them access to its dollar based banking settlement system.

And in that dimension, Pakistan is a nobody.

This is all fine and reasonable, this acknowledges the reality better than others

so again the question is how much India will and can fit in this direction?

That's it, a seemingly simple straight forward logical question


It's very flattering tbh to India, I would think it's something to bask in

And as I said, Pakistan can be a downstream consideration for good reasons, it's more important that the foundations are laid with the founding members, that's having a long term regional view

 

[Vikramaditya1]

We have more natural resources like minerals and untapped oil and gas reserves and practically the same agriculture items for export as India and a cheaper IT compared to India for the world to do business. It's only a matter of time before we take off. Good luck

Most of your assessment is inaccurate. The scale of our exports of the things you mentioned is large that some sectors of it like agro is larger than your entire exports. You think you're competing in agro exports when your entire exports less than $40 Billions . While India's agro export alone is $58Billions. Not even going to talk about IT services.

 

[vasanthm]

India has mass poverty, rape epidemic, mass communal and multiple problems
It's isolated in its region and not trusted, spreading a dangerous brand of hindutva extremism

Now if India can partake based on it's 1.4 billion overpopulated state, then surely the purpose of BRICS is to.expand to include large markets today and tomorrow like Pakistan or Turkey

No, you think we don't know indians or H's in particular?


I repeat, China will need to India under control to ensure BRICS succeeds or it will be as worthless as saarc

Why not just create a new grouping without India in it? Seems silly

 

[RHCP]

Can't believe some members here are expecting india to go phull support for chine/Russia, based mearly on talks of a so called "new world order"/"south block"(whatever that means).

After decades of being their alley in the so called "south block", now that the west don't want to deal with you, india is the coward for having a policy of "waiting it out" and not picking any side?

And the crowd that keeps repeating, "India should condemn Israel for its evilness", in another thread are chearing turkey for pounding the kurds. .

Such hypocrits

 

[vasanthm]

Can't believe some members here are expecting india to go phull support for chine/Russia, based mearly on talks of a so called "new world order"/"south block"(whatever that means).

After decades of being their alley in the so called "south block", now that the west don't want to deal with you, india is the coward for having a policy of "waiting it out" and not picking any side?

And the crowd that keeps repeating, "India should condemn Israel for its evilness", in another thread are chearing turkey for pounding the kurds. .

Such hypocrits

Basically Pakistan is a nobody on the international stage but they want India to use its influence to challenge the west, shun Israel, support Palestine, support turkey even when their own umma chumma brothers are not bothered..

Pakistanis seem to believe that it's India's job to work for their interests.. this is what happens when their own govt doesn't care

 

[kambhakt]

India has mass poverty, rape epidemic, mass communal and multiple problems
It's isolated in its region and not trusted, spreading a dangerous brand of hindutva extremism

Now if India can partake based on it's 1.4 billion overpopulated state, then surely the purpose of BRICS is to.expand to include large markets today and tomorrow like Pakistan or Turkey

No, you think we don't know indians or H's in particular?


I repeat, China will need to India under control to ensure BRICS succeeds or it will be as worthless as saarc

Despite all that, India is a founder member of BRICS and the I in its name.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Again, straw man, involvement asked no one at all

Does this statement even mean anything? Just a word salad?

As I previously said, if you want to be as significant and important as you aspire then probing questions will be asked.

You miss the point, and that is natural. Unlike those who are projecting their collective insecurities on us, unlike our present government, our country does not want to be significant and important. We are.

You simply answer them, not question the question

Not a single probing question listed, just another litany of woe. It boils down to repeated assertions that we are a covert ally of the US, and therefore bound to be shunned by the Russians and the Chinese, and even perhaps by the US itself.

Now a very simple glance at this reveals that removing the label India, and replacing it with another country label, shows where this shrill complaint is coming from.

Ofcourse that today's India is "neutral" to a settler colonial project happening in plain sight is illuminating given the history of the nation.

There is a difference between 'neutrality' and 'no inclination to get involved' , no interest, as stated earlier, in striking futile public postures. For the record, the External Affairs Ministry has specifically repeated Indian support for the Palestinian cause. We are not interested in giving points to Israel or to Iran.

This is just obvious stuff joe

What is obvious is that in spite of very many efforts to show that we are part of a great alliance on this side or that, nothing has emerged other than the fact that India is desired as an ally by all, and is equally determined not to settle immovably for any.

 

[Joe Shearer]

India has mass poverty, rape epidemic, mass communal and multiple problems
It's isolated in its region and not trusted, spreading a dangerous brand of hindutva extremism

Isn't it a shame that India still gets invited into every grouping, and in spite of not having the slightest shadow of mass poverty, rapes, mass communal problems, our neighbour is looked at with amused contempt? Isn't it enfuriating that the isolation ends with the Maldives and Sri Lanka coming in as supplicants to build bridges? And isn't it another source of frustration that Hindutva doesn't spread as it should, and consume India as so many seem to earnestly wish?

It must be maddening to sit in a country not one's own, and face an environment hostile to oneself, and try to seek consolation in schadenfreude, in the sinking into a bog of a hated neighbour of one's country of origin, and see with despair that they keep moving up?

Bitter, bitter.....

Now if India can partake based on it's 1.4 billion overpopulated state, then surely the purpose of BRICS is to.expand to include large markets today and tomorrow like Pakistan or Turkey

So who's stopping them? If they don't get invited and fast-tracked, how is that the fault of India? If you are not good enough, not our fault, surely?

No, you think we don't know indians or H's in particular?

You don't. If you did, you might have shut up and tried to improve your own condition. Instead, you spend all your time mooning like a love-sick lover over India and Indians.

Get a life.

I repeat, China will need to India under control to ensure BRICS succeeds or it will be as worthless as saarc

Yup, right on schedule, a cuckoo clock and not much more.
First, it was ordained in Heaven that the irreligious and secular would decay in a few short years.
Then, it was hoped that the mighty Americans would help speed up the process.
When both had failed, a despairing clutch at the Chinese.
No doubt other options will follow, in due time, once being the 'dancing boy' for the Chinese is done with.

We shall watch with interest whenever we can spare the time from getting on with our own business of development and progress.

 

[r3alist]

Does this statement even mean anything? Just a word salad?


You miss the point, and that is natural. Unlike those who are projecting their collective insecurities on us, unlike our present government, our country does not want to be significant and important. We are.


Not a single probing question listed, just another litany of woe. It boils down to repeated assertions that we are a covert ally of the US, and therefore bound to be shunned by the Russians and the Chinese, and even perhaps by the US itself.

Now a very simple glance at this reveals that removing the label India, and replacing it with another country label, shows where this shrill complaint is coming from.


There is a difference between 'neutrality' and 'no inclination to get involved' , no interest, as stated earlier, in striking futile public postures. For the record, the External Affairs Ministry has specifically repeated Indian support for the Palestinian cause. We are not interested in giving points to Israel or to Iran.


What is obvious is that in spite of very many efforts to show that we are part of a great alliance on this side or that, nothing has emerged other than the fact that India is desired as an ally by all, and is equally determined not to settle immovably for any.

When I have already said India is not strategically captured by the USA, as of now, but is sought after, then all of the above is misdirected. I also agree with examples where India has disproved suggestions of strategic capture.

So let's just acknowledge we agree there, for the purpose of sanity


The point we quibble on is better understood by me now, you are being provided a framing of your strategic choices and direction, you reject the existence, need and premise of the framing to be presented in such a way, as per the clip.

So that's what only time will tell, will the rejection persist.

But I also hope the dichotomy can atleast be acknowledged and discussed, it effectively will decide many regional equations.

Can't get more reasonable than that

 

[Joe Shearer]

When I have already said India is not strategically captured by the USA, as of now, but is sought after, then all of the above is misdirected. I also agree with examples where India has disproved suggestions of strategic capture.

So let's just acknowledge we agree there, for the purpose of sanity


The point we quibble on is better understood by me now, you are being provided a framing of your strategic choices and direction, you reject the existence, need and premise of the framing to be presented in such a way, as per the clip.

So that's what only time will tell, will the rejection persist.

But I also hope the dichotomy can atleast be acknowledged and discussed, it effectively will decide many regional equations.

Can't get more reasonable than that

For any 'reasonable' discussion, some basics must be mutually intelligible.

• Secular India, bhakts and Sanghis excluded, does not accept typecasting as a Hindu nation;
• India, irrespective of political affiliation of the person responding, does not accept typecasting as a new colony, a camp follower, a military partner;
  • the eagerness of various power blocs to capture her affiliation, in whatever form, is for members of those blocs to explain; India has no confessions to make;
• India is not committed to any bloc, and is unlikely to be - she is not for purchase;
• India does not need to be compared to any other nation, within the sub-continent or without; we will be happy to struggle our way out;

 

[r3alist]

For any 'reasonable' discussion, some basics must be mutually intelligible.

• Secular India, bhakts and Sanghis excluded, does not accept typecasting as a Hindu nation;
• India, irrespective of political affiliation of the person responding, does not accept typecasting as a new colony, a camp follower, a military partner;
  • the eagerness of various power blocs to capture her affiliation, in whatever form, is for members of those blocs to explain; India has no confessions to make;
• India is not committed to any bloc, and is unlikely to be - she is not for purchase;
• India does not need to be compared to any other nation, within the sub-continent or without; we will be happy to struggle our way out;

Yes Joe, you have said. Got it.