India is incomplete without Pakistan: Indian Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajapayee

samsite84 said:
Plain old regurgitation of lies. There were so many conditions that have to be fulfilled before plebiscite.

1) Pakistan to vacate all of the occupied territory (including Galgit Baltistan) - when is Pakistan doing this. Also, get back the land given to China. Reverse the demographic change.

2) India will vacate, only a small force left to hold elections. If Pakistan does 1, we will pressure Indian on this. We will also repopulate vacated lands with Kashmiri pundits.

3) Hold plebiscite. India will QB this - rest assured we will follow through the decision of people as we have done over 75 years now.

Till you do 1, don't bring UN charter or whatever - or educate yourselves
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A pack of lies you have written.

UN resolution 80 says BOTH INDIA AND PAKISTAN need to withdraw military troops.

It is just not Pakistan.

You think only India is allowed to keep military troops in Kashmir to hold a Plebiscite.

I mean how unrealistic can you get.
 
Baibers_1260 said:
@samsite84

What was Operation Brasstacks all about?
Which terrorist attack, which UN resolution violation triggered Operation Brasstacks ?
Could you answer in the post below?

Post in thread 'India is incomplete without Pakistan: Indian Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajapayee'
https://defencepk.com/forums/thread...ster-atal-bihari-vajapayee.30031/post-1118178
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Man, you look for a single "tree" that is red in a sea of "blue" - basically, find one anomaly and mean it to be gospel while overwhelming evidence points the other way. The Goa thing, the poem, the op brasstacks etc etc while the same guy who was "reciting" the poem met the PM of Pakistan in Lahore and recognized Pakistan. Yet he was backstabbed.

India was pivotal in Bangladesh's independence movement yet it never occupied large parts (which it could have easily) by force. We gave back occupied terrorities and 93K PoW post 1971 - are those actions of a country which is animous to Pak?

I would say you are either selective on purpose or your bias clouds your judgement. Pick what you want
 
samsite84 said:
Plain old regurgitation of lies. There were so many conditions that have to be fulfilled before plebiscite.

1) Pakistan to vacate all of the occupied territory (including Galgit Baltistan) - when is Pakistan doing this. Also, get back the land given to China. Reverse the demographic change.

2) India will vacate, only a small force left to hold elections. If Pakistan does 1, we will pressure Indian on this. We will also repopulate vacated lands with Kashmiri pundits.

3) Hold plebiscite. India will QB this - rest assured we will follow through the decision of people as we have done over 75 years now.

Till you do 1, don't bring UN charter or whatever - or educate yourselves
Click to expand...
Incorrect, Read UN resolution 80 enacted in 1950. You can google this.


Both Pakistan and India need to withdraw troops from Kashmir for plebiscite.

This UN resolution 47 Indians keep harping about is lies, and has been superceded by additional UN resolutions.
 
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samsite84 said:
Plain old regurgitation of lies. There were so many conditions that have to be fulfilled before plebiscite.

1) Pakistan to vacate all of the occupied territory (including Galgit Baltistan) - when is Pakistan doing this. Also, get back the land given to China. Reverse the demographic change.

2) India will vacate, only a small force left to hold elections. If Pakistan does 1, we will pressure Indian on this. We will also repopulate vacated lands with Kashmiri pundits.

3) Hold plebiscite. India will QB this - rest assured we will follow through the decision of people as we have done over 75 years now.

Till you do 1, don't bring UN charter or whatever - or educate yourselves
Click to expand...
Stop refering the UN resolution 47.

Go to UN resolution 80 (1950)

Both India and Pakistan need to withdraw military troops from Kashmir for plebiscite to happen.

India has refused to withdraw military troops, hence it is India to be blamed for the plebiscite not happening.
 
Muji.Iqbal said:
Stop refering the UN resolution 47.

Go to UN resolution 80 (1950)

Both India and Pakistan need to withdraw military troops from Kashmir for plebiscite to happen.

India has refused to withdraw military troops, hence it is India to be blamed for the plebiscite not happening.
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And Pakistan already did? We can continue to unearth buried bodies, nothing is gonna change - on both sides of the aisle.

I can promise you this - India will rather have a nuclear armagedon than cede Kashmir to Pakistan. Same goes for Pakistan. End of story.
 
samsite84 said:
And Pakistan already did? We can continue to unearth buried bodies, nothing is gonna change - on both sides of the aisle.

I can promise you this - India will rather have a nuclear armagedon than cede Kashmir to Pakistan. Same goes for Pakistan. End of story.
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Pakistan will only withdraw military forces if India does according to the UN resolution 80.

It shows India is at fault. So be it. Diplomacy has failed in Kashmir, it can only be resolved through war.

Fair enough, because India knows it will lose Kashmir in a plebiscite.

Keep dreaming, Pakistan will keep fighting for Kashmir as long as we exist.
 
samsite84 said:
And Pakistan already did? We can continue to unearth buried bodies, nothing is gonna change - on both sides of the aisle.

I can promise you this - India will rather have a nuclear armagedon than cede Kashmir to Pakistan. Same goes for Pakistan. End of story.
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And Even if you have a nuclear holocaust, Hindu civilization will be destoyed.

Yes Pakistan will be destroyed, but at least Islamic civilization will survive.
 
The entire thread is on wishful ideals instead of what’s actually possible.
For e.g Pakistan sought strategic depth in Afghanistan but the actual reality of that is rather different.
 
Report in the Independent UK

www.independent.co.uk

Mural of ‘undivided India’ in India’s new parliament building sparks diplomatic row

Mural in new Indian parliament building denounced for ‘expansionist mindset’ and ‘threat to the freedom’
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk


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Mural of ‘undivided India’ in India’s new parliament building sparks diplomatic row​

Mural in new Indian parliament building denounced for ‘expansionist mindset’ and ‘threat to the freedom’​

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A mural depicting a map of an ancient “undivided India” in the country’s new parliament has angered neighbours including Bangladesh, Nepal and Pakistan.​

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The artwork shows India extending into nearby nations including Afghanistan in the west, the Maldives, Sri Lanka and Bhutan.​

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The concept of a ‘Greater India’ – popularly called ‘Akhand Bharat’ in Hindi – is espoused by hardline nationalists.​

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Bangladesh ordered its diplomats in Delhi to seek a clarification and explanation of the mural, while there were protests in Nepal.​

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Prime minister Narendra Modi inaugurated the new parliament buidling, constructed at an estimated cost of Rs 9.7bn (£94.2m), late last month​

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India said the mural shows the ancient Mauryan empire and that it represents a time of flourishing “people-oriented” governance, and has “nothing to do with politics”.​

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That statement came after a minister in Modi’s government tweeted a photo of the mural. “Resolve is clear – Akhand Bharat,” wrote parliamentary affairs minister Pralhad Joshi​

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Bangladesh’s minister of state for foreign affairs Shahriar Alam said his ministry directed its mission in Delhi to seek “further clarification” on the matter.​

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The minister suggested the Bangladesh government has no objection to the mural after Delhi’s clarification, but is seeking an explanation amid pressure from opposition parties.​

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“There is widespread anger over the map,” Mr Alam said.​

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“There is no reason to express doubts about it. However, for further clarification, we have asked the mission in Delhi to speak to the Indian Ministry of External Affairs to find out what their official explanation is,” he said.​

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Bangladesh’s principal opposition party, the Bangladesh Nationalist Party (BNP), had raised the issue of the mural.​

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“Displaying Bangladesh as part of the undivided map of any other country is a threat to the country’s independence and sovereignty,” said the BNP’s general secretary Mirza Fakhrul Islam Alamgir on Sunday.​

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Pakistan’s foreign ministry spokesperson Mumtaz Baloch also raised concerns over the mural and said Islamabad was “appalled” by Mr Joshi’s comments.​

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“The gratuitous assertion of ‘Akhand Bharat’ is a manifestation of a revisionist and expansionist mindset that seeks to subjugate the identity and culture of not only India’s neighbouring countries but also its own religious minorities,” she said.​

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The mural also sparked protests in Nepal in the beginning of this month when Mr Modi was on a visit to that country, and criticism from the country’s political leaders.​


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“A country like India which sees itself as an ancient and established country and as a model of democracy keeps Nepali areas in its map and hangs the map in the parliament, this cannot be considered appropriate,” said Nepal’s former prime minister KP Sharma Oli.

India’s ministry of external affairs (MEA) said in a statement on 2 June that the mural showed a time in Indian history during King Ashoka’s rule.

Ashoka was one of the ancient Mauryan dynasty’s most charismatic rulerswho played a significant role in propagating Buddhism in Asia.

“The mural in question depicts the spread of the Ashokan empire and the idea of a responsible and people-oriented government he adopted and propagated. That’s what the plaque in front of the mural says,” MEA spokesperson Arindam Bagchi said.

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Baibers_1260 said:
An answer to those who say India has no imperialist ambitions:
To those who don't understand Hindi a detailed translation will be given,
Basically Atal Bihari Vajpayee said India's Independence is incomplete and he will reunite Pakistan back into India. and he mentions some provinces of Pakistan by name.

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Extract :

Flaying Pakistan for its continued interference in Kashmir, he remarked, "The fact is that the war is not for Kashmir but for the Pakistani psyche; and until they cease to think that Pakistan is incomplete without Kashmir, this will not come to an end."

Here, while he referred to his talks with Sharief during the course of his stay in Lahore, Vajpayee recalled, "I told the Pakistani prime minister to realise what would come out of this in case we also started thinking that India is incomplete without Pakistan.
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Ram ram ji,

This poem was written by At an ji on August 15, 1947, when he was just a callow youth and was most likely swept up in a wave of emotions, much like most people in the newly independent countries of India and Pakistan were. At that time, many were still coming to terms with the shock of Partition and hoped for it to be reversed. It can hardly be considered repesentative of his views on Pakistan when he became Prime Minister, just like one would not consider the views of Mr Jinnah or the poems of Allama Iqbal from their early years to be representative of their views on Pakistan once they had matured as leaders.
 
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