India Lucky Not To Lose More Than Four Rafales

[samsite84]

no sir, for first 80 days, there was no ack. of any dead or injured, "no glass panes were broken"

which version of your truth is correct?!

Again, that is just wrong -> Soldiers who lost lives were laid to rest with due respect, local and state level govt representatives were present at the funerals. You don't follow credible sources from India side else this question won't be even raised.

 

[samsite84]

we went beyond that and provided tail numbers!

LOL... this doesn't merit a response my friend. I can pull out tail numbers from my back side and claim anything.

Again 3-4 losses have evidence, rest doesn't pass the muster/bar of evidence.

FWIW, I don't believe F-16 was lost in 2019, not because I don't want to "believe" version of IAF but because I don't have proof. And that is why I also think IAF was left wanting. IF any PAF assets were destroyed, provide irrefutable (or almost) evidence else it doesn't matter.

 

[Yasser76]

Really? The early 4-0, became 6-0, now 7-0. So why did that the number change every so often.

The fact of 4 losses for IAF has been discussed at length. Any more -> no clear OSINT evidence available. I will leave at that.

On India's story -> Its a multitude of issues/factors all of which you have mentioned. That is how "real world" works - many things (often contradictory) working at the same time.

All in all, we have evidence of 3 IAF jets (give or take), 1-2 some evidence, no credible for anything else including S-400.

On PAF side, 1 AWACS damage for sure, might be lost, number of installations hit and above all many terrorist strongholds taken out.

You can shout all you want, I will continue to point inconsistencies and double standards many members (including you) apply when it comes to judging damage, outcomes etc.

No one is shouting, but nice try in changing the subject.

Was never 4-0. Everyone on this forum and the world was told 6-0 straight away, at the presser televised globally. 1 more plane was added after confirmation.

Again,, lying and lying and lying.

Also, love the way you totally ignore the point about the IAF not admitting to any losses 7 months afterwards, yet to seem to equate the PAF openness and the IAF's secrecy? That was ine major reason why Pakistan won the war of narratives.

Regarding Pakistan's losses, we have offered for India or international observers to count our planes. India did not respond.

Make of that what you will, maybe they are still going through "Procedure saar"!?

 

[Yasser76]

LOL... this doesn't merit a response my friend. I can pull out tail numbers from my back side and claim anything.

Again 3-4 losses have evidence, rest doesn't pass the muster/bar of evidence.

FWIW, I don't believe F-16 was lost in 2019, not because I don't want to "believe" version of IAF but because I don't have proof. And that is why I also think IAF was left wanting. IF any PAF assets were destroyed, provide irrefutable (or almost) evidence else it doesn't matter.

Then show us the planes with tail numbers and show the world PAF is lying and win teh narrative?

Or maybe you simply cannot.

 

[samsite84]

Then show us the planes with tail numbers and show the world PAF is lying and win teh narrative?

Or maybe you simply cannot.

I don't think there is any clear evidence of PAF loosing air assets (other than AWACS which PAF has itself confirmed - damage or loss is TBD for me)

I don't like IAF chief claiming numbers without providing any substantive evidence nor have I found any from OSINT.

Got it?

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

Again, that is just wrong -> Soldiers who lost lives were laid to rest with due respect, local and state level govt representatives were present at the funerals. You don't follow credible sources from India side else this question won't be even raised.

dumb dumb


"no glass panes were broken"!


this credible enough for your?!!!
"no damage was done"

Not even a glass pane broken: Doval slams foreign media over strike doubts - The Tribune

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[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

LOL... this doesn't merit a response my friend. I can pull out tail numbers from my back side and claim anything.

Again 3-4 losses have evidence, rest doesn't pass the muster/bar of evidence.

FWIW, I don't believe F-16 was lost in 2019, not because I don't want to "believe" version of IAF but because I don't have proof. And that is why I also think IAF was left wanting. IF any PAF assets were destroyed, provide irrefutable (or almost) evidence else it doesn't matter.

does not merit a response!

so, this is your response to these individuals who believe, this piece of information has certain truth.

1. Pravin Swaheny
2. Khalid Kidwai


"does not merit a response", sure dude!

I'd say the same!

 

[samsite84]

No one is shouting, but nice try in changing the subject.

Was never 4-0. Everyone on this forum and the world was told 6-0 straight away, at the presser televised globally. 1 more plane was added after confirmation.

Again,, lying and lying and lying.

Also, love the way you totally ignore the point about the IAF not admitting to any losses 7 months afterwards, yet to seem to equate the PAF openness and the IAF's secrecy? That was ine major reason why Pakistan won the war of narratives.

Regarding Pakistan's losses, we have offered for India or international observers to count our planes. India did not respond.

Make of that what you will, maybe they are still going through "Procedure saar"!?

On losses - both IAF and PAF have made claims and counter-claims. No one party has provided a number to losses they took. Don't see how its any different. PAF only admitted to AWACS damage when it could be seen from a sat image and lose 5 airmen. IAF hasn't lost any airmen so very murky to actually know how many assets were lost or not.

On counting etc - this is not a bout where you want an "independent" referee. Lets keep this fanboyish type of asks outside of practical processes

 

[Yasser76]

On losses - both IAF and PAF have made claims and counter-claims. No one party has provided a number to losses they took. Don't see how its any different. PAF only admitted to AWACS damage when it could be seen from a sat image and lose 5 airmen. IAF hasn't lost any airmen so very murky to actually know how many assets were lost or not.

On counting etc - this is not a bout where you want an "independent" referee. Lets keep this fanboyish type of asks outside of practical processes

Asking for independent verification on claims is "fanboyish"!? Funny you woukd think that.

 

[samsite84]

Asking for independent verification on claims is "fanboyish"!? Funny you woukd think that.

Yes - counting to jets from an independent observer is childish and no self respecting nation/institution/govt will allow it. If PAF/Pak govt has offered it, it just shows deference to a third-party. That is a space, India will not concede.

 

[Yasser76]

Yes - counting to jets from an independent observer is childish and no self respecting nation/institution/govt will allow it. If PAF/Pak govt has offered it, it just shows deference to a third-party. That is a space, India will not concede.

Nice bullshit way of saying you are hiding losses. This of course gives some credence to those arguing that IAF losses were even more then the 7 being claimed by PAF.

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

Yes - counting to jets from an independent observer is childish and no self respecting nation/institution/govt will allow it. If PAF/Pak govt has offered it, it just shows deference to a third-party. That is a space, India will not concede.

from 'scientific observation' to 'loosing self respect if 3rd party is involved'!

great going!

 

[Yasser76]

from 'scientific observation' to 'loosing self respect if 3rd party is involved'!

great going!

Yup, keen on "evidence based analysis" then "not conceding space to third parties"

I wanna see him start on the Hindi words again,, that is always fun...

 

[samsite84]

Nice bullshit way of saying you are hiding losses. This of course gives some credence to those arguing that IAF losses were even more then the 7 being claimed by PAF.

Right and for me PAF offering count is indicative of the slave mentality many have in sub-continent. But maybe that is what going to world bank to keep your country running does... jury is out

Btw while at it, can you post the press release from PAF where the PAF chief/DG air operations/ DG ISPR (some authority) has mentioned the counting of air assets from independent observers?

 

[Yasser76]

Right and for me PAF offering count is indicative of the slave mentality many have in sub-continent. But maybe that is what going to world bank to keep your country running does... jury is out

Ah, now you feel to move the debate from PAF/IAF losses to "world bank": and "slave mentality".

See how easy it was for us to make you runaway from the debate?

Want to stick to the subject or things getting too hot for you?