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[Ali_Baba]

India Vs China Air Power | The Stealth Score: China: 500+, India: 0 | Ctrl Alt Defence Ep 48

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>> Everyone should watch this episode fully - it is 42.38minutes of pure panic about the PLAAF vs IAF..

 

[indo17787]

India Vs China Air Power | The Stealth Score: China: 500+, India: 0 | Ctrl Alt Defence Ep 48

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>> Everyone should watch this episode fully - it is 42.38minutes of pure panic about the PLAAF vs IAF..

China's benchmark was always the US, so it's no surprise that today it's behind only the US. They knew from the beginning that, in the worst case scenario, they could end up facing the entire NATO bloc. That's why they've built their defence ecosystem accordingly with end to end backward and vertical integration in manufacturing while also pouring lump sum amount of money into R&D.

Among our three services, I'd say the Indian Navy, barring its SSK arm, is the one that has shown the most long term thinking and vision. Even IAF ACM has acknowledged that.

'Indian Navy got it right, IAF must learn': Why Air Chief AP Singh wants India Air Force to follow Navy's path

Air Chief Marshal A.P. Singh has advised the Indian Air Force to emulate the Indian Navy's successful model for indigenisation to boost its own self-reliance goals

www.theweek.in

The gap is simply too big. India needs to take a different path by putting serious money into areas like photonic technologies, quantum technologies and dual-band IR technologies. It has to be a mix of asymmetric and symmetric capabilities while also using our geography and terrain as force multipliers. That's a far more practical approach than trying to mirror China's playbook.

 

[Ali_Baba]

China's benchmark was always the US, so it's no surprise that today it's behind only the US. They knew from the beginning that, in the worst case scenario, they could end up facing the entire NATO bloc. That's why they've built their defence ecosystem accordingly with end to end backward and vertical integration in manufacturing while also pouring lump sum amount of money into R&D.

Among our three services, I'd say the Indian Navy, barring its SSK arm, is the one that has shown the most long term thinking and vision. Even IAF ACM has acknowledged that.

'Indian Navy got it right, IAF must learn': Why Air Chief AP Singh wants India Air Force to follow Navy's path

Air Chief Marshal A.P. Singh has advised the Indian Air Force to emulate the Indian Navy's successful model for indigenisation to boost its own self-reliance goals

www.theweek.in

The gap is simply too big. India needs to take a different path by putting serious money into areas like photonic technologies, quantum technologies and dual-band IR technologies. It has to be a mix of asymmetric and symmetric capabilities, while also using our geography and terrain as force multipliers. That's a far more practical approach than trying to mirror China's playbook.

Given how confidently Indians Armed Forces talked about how they can take on a two-front war with China and Pakistan, the video and commentary is fair.

The video is telling on how they think the "AMCA is setup for success".

 

[CallSignMaverick]

The video is telling on how they think the "AMCA is setup for success".

Technically yes. I know, delays exist in every project, but AMCA is where we're trying out new things.


1. Our own high thrust turbofan to be D&Ded simultaneously
2. Dismantling the monopoly of HAL as India's only aircraft maker. Already happening with C-295 and H-125 assembly even if those are foreign IPRs but give expertise and capability to private firms.

3. Almost every major component is to be Indian from the start including the engine (yeah I'm including F414-INS6 here apart from the 120KN one).

Marut struggled because hardly anything inside was our own, except the design which itself needed some support from German engineers like Kurt Tank, although he obviously didn't design the entire aircraft on his own. LCA struggled due to same reasons, our own components couldn't come on time and it took a lot of time for us to mature all of that, especially avionics and so on apart from lack of seriousness.

For AMCA these hurdles are largely over, and it's currently at prototyping stage where a contract is to be given to a private consortium to just integrate and assemble the prototypes under DRDO's supervision. The facility is already under construction and MoD is evaluating the proposals instead of just giving it away to HAL without a 2nd thought.

 

[indo17787]

Most countries still spend enormous money making aircraft harder to see on radar.
But suppose sensors become dramatically better over the next two decades.
Now stealth gives diminishing returns. You might spend billions reducing rcs while someone else spends less on sensors that still find you. That becomes an unfavorable cost exchange.

Imagine two countries. One has 500 aircraft, excellent stealth and powerful LR missiles. The other has only 300 aircraft with average stealth but it has AI assisted targeting, photonic sensor fusion, quantum navigation, autonomous drones and secure laser communications.

The 2nd country detects the threat first, processes the information first, makes a decision first, fires first and relocates before the other side can react. It can also keep operating more effectively under heavy EW.

So even with fewer aircraft, it can consistently gain the tactical advantage because its OODA cycle is faster.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Most countries still spend enormous money making aircraft harder to see on radar.
But suppose sensors become dramatically better over the next two decades.
Now stealth gives diminishing returns. You might spend billions reducing rcs while someone else spends less on sensors that still find you. That becomes an unfavorable cost exchange.

Imagine two countries. One has 500 aircraft, excellent stealth and powerful LR missiles. The other has only 300 aircraft with average stealth but it has AI assisted targeting, photonic sensor fusion, quantum navigation, autonomous drones and secure laser communications.

The 2nd country detects the threat first, processes the information first, makes a decision first, fires first and relocates before the other side can react. It can also keep operating more effectively under heavy EW.

So even with fewer aircraft, it can consistently gain the tactical advantage because its OODA cycle is faster.

Except China has a much better OODA loop than India, and China has the precision systems that can take out India's OODA loop with its hypersonic platforms that can target the sensors and space denial systems in a first strike.

Once China has done that, it can "mop up" what will remain of the IAF..

 

[Nimble]

China's benchmark was always the US, so it's no surprise that today it's behind only the US. They knew from the beginning that, in the worst case scenario, they could end up facing the entire NATO bloc. That's why they've built their defence ecosystem accordingly with end to end backward and vertical integration in manufacturing while also pouring lump sum amount of money into R&D.

Among our three services, I'd say the Indian Navy, barring its SSK arm, is the one that has shown the most long term thinking and vision. Even IAF ACM has acknowledged that.

'Indian Navy got it right, IAF must learn': Why Air Chief AP Singh wants India Air Force to follow Navy's path

Air Chief Marshal A.P. Singh has advised the Indian Air Force to emulate the Indian Navy's successful model for indigenisation to boost its own self-reliance goals

www.theweek.in

The gap is simply too big. India needs to take a different path by putting serious money into areas like photonic technologies, quantum technologies and dual-band IR technologies. It has to be a mix of asymmetric and symmetric capabilities while also using our geography and terrain as force multipliers. That's a far more practical approach than trying to mirror China's playbook.

Apart from investing serious money we need a real fast decision making in all 3 services.... even if our initial platforms comes with flaws we must induct thrm into service, study shortcomings and improve those as well as upcoming platforms....

what our people do? If they want a drone that can fly upto 31000 ft and if during trials our genius elites find it going upto 30000 ft then instead of induction they outright reject it and come with further new demands hence we always fail to bring anything with serious nos and on time....

 

[indo17787]

Except China has a much better OODA loop than India, and China has the precision systems that can take out India's OODA loop with its hypersonic platforms that can target the sensors and space denial systems in a first strike.

Once China has done that, it can "mop up" what will remain of the IAF..

Reality collects debts.

How Pelosi’s Taiwan trip set off a new wave of US-China electronic warfare

PLA eyes in the sky and at sea sought to track the aircraft carrying the US House speaker.

www.scmp.com

 

[CallSignMaverick]

Except China has a much better OODA loop than India, and China has the precision systems that can take out India's OODA loop with its hypersonic platforms that can target the sensors and space denial systems in a first strike.

Once China has done that, it can "mop up" what will remain of the IAF..

Yes but Indo-Tibetan border is far away from mainland China and logistics on their side won't be that easy especially during winters.

 

[CallSignMaverick]

Most countries still spend enormous money making aircraft harder to see on radar.
But suppose sensors become dramatically better over the next two decades.
Now stealth gives diminishing returns. You might spend billions reducing rcs while someone else spends less on sensors that still find you. That becomes an unfavorable cost exchange.

Imagine two countries. One has 500 aircraft, excellent stealth and powerful LR missiles. The other has only 300 aircraft with average stealth but it has AI assisted targeting, photonic sensor fusion, quantum navigation, autonomous drones and secure laser communications.

The 2nd country detects the threat first, processes the information first, makes a decision first, fires first and relocates before the other side can react. It can also keep operating more effectively under heavy EW.

So even with fewer aircraft, it can consistently gain the tactical advantage because its OODA cycle is faster.

XR-SAM/ERADS Project "Kusha" is meant to bridge that gap carrying dual IIR/GaN AESA seekers for tackling counter measures and increasing kill probability against stealth fighters. So it can theoretically take cueing from multiple VHF radars and fire-control radars that can give guidance grade tracks simultaneously in IACCS and activate it's dual seekers close to the target. Although easier said, but it does create a level of deterrence.

 

[harpy1]

Chinease would wipe out the Indian air force in 24 hours

 

[CallSignMaverick]

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[Nimble]

Chinease would wipe out the Indian air force in 24 hours

They are very strong but 24 hrs looks impossible.... not because we are strong but because of Himalaya barrier and operational challenges for PLAAF from Tibet makes it difficult for PLAAF to destroy our older but large airforce within just 24 hrs....our Sam network is good to keep them busy plus our standoff strike capability is decent and we can keep them busy if not defeat them....

@NeptunesVortex

@indo17787

@CallSignMaverick

 

[indo17787]

They are very strong but 24 hrs looks impossible.... not because we are strong but because of Himalaya barrier and operational challenges for PLAAF from Tibet makes it difficult for PLAAF to destroy our older but large airforce within just 24 hrs....our Sam network is good to keep them busy plus our standoff strike capability is decent and we can keep them busy if not defeat them....

@NeptunesVortex

@indo17787

@CallSignMaverick

Let them believe whatever they want. I'm not in the business of fixing opinions. Look at real conflicts, see what tactics keep evolving, what gets abandoned and why. Reality has a habit of humiliating theories that sounded invincible online. Internet lets everyone cosplay as a strategist.

In the end, everyone is free to believe whatever they want.