Indian Missiles and Guided Munitions

[Corax]

Can you tell me where did you test propulsion of your green painted missiles? Any ground facility or test bench videos ?
If not then just shut up and come out of la la land. Come to India and Pakistan economy threads if you want more reality checks.

I'll write to Nescom, NDC, etc and ask them to send you the videos and pics. Unlike you guys who need to show and celebrate every minor event like delivering aircraft without engines you still haven't told me what Chinese missiles the Babur, Raad, and Taimoor are meant to be copies of, while it's clear your brahmos is a glorified Soviet era anti ship missile. And just like every indian, on queue when you have nothing to add, it's "but 4 trillion economy saaar" hey, like I said, whatever makes you sleep at night.

 

[onlinpunit]

Key Specifications
(Nirbhay / LRLACM Family)

• Type: Long-range, all-weather, subsonic land-attack cruise Missile
• Length: 6 m.
• Diameter: 0.52 m.
• Wingspan: 2.7 m (two tapering fold-out wings).
• Launch Weight: ~1,500-1600 kg
• Warhead: 450 kg conventionalor, nuclear up to ~12 kt yield

• Range: Up to 1,000 km with potential up to 1,500 km
• Speed: Subsonic, cruise ~0.65–0.9 Mach
• Flight Altitude/Profile: 50 m to 4 km; capable of terrain-hugging, sea-skimming, loitering.

Propulsion:

• First stage: Solid rocket booster (jettisoned after launch).
• Sustained: Indigenous GTRE Manik Small Turbofan Engine (STFE).

Guidance & Features:

• Mid-course: Ring Laser Gyro (RLG) Inertial Navigation System (INS) with MEMS gyros + multi-GNSS (GPS/NavIC).
• Terminal: Active Radar Homing (ARH/RF seeker), possibly Electro-Optical (EO)/Infrared Imaging (IIR).
• Other: Radio altimeter, terrain contour matching (TERCOM) support; advanced avionics/software for reliability.
• Launch Platforms: Mobile ground-based Transporter Erector Launcher (TEL, e.g., Tata LPTA 5252 12x12); compatible with Universal Vertical Launch Module (UVLM) for ships.

 

[onlinpunit]

Can you tell me what missile they copied? What Chinese missile did they paint? But of course, it's ok for you to copy a soviet era anti ship missile, repaint it, and call it "indigenous".

Now that's rich ! Coming from the glorious painters of Nodong, DF-15 and M 18 !
We never claimed Brahmos as an indigenous product ! Its a joint venture between India and russia.!

 

[Corax]

Now that's rich ! Coming from the glorious painters of Nodong, DF-15 and M 18 !
We never claimed Brahmos as an indigenous product ! Its a joint venture between India and russia.!

Also rich coming from the nation that painted the soviet era SA6 as the Akash I'll ask the same question I asked your compatriots, what Chinese missiles are the Babur, Raad and Taimoor meant to copy?

 

[onlinpunit]

What exactly you want ? @Corax Our validation for your "indigenous " missiles ?

 

[Corax]

What exactly you want ? @Corax Our validation for your "indigenous " missiles ?

No, you guys say we simply copy Chinese stuff, so I'm asking you to back it up, what Chinese missiles have we copied for Babur, Raad and Taimoor? I mean it's obvious you've copied soviet era missiles like that Yakhont and SA6, but it's not clear what missiles we've copied for our cruise missiles.

 

[GatlingGunZ]

I'll write to Nescom, NDC, etc and ask them to send you the videos and pics. Unlike you guys who need to show and celebrate every minor event like delivering aircraft without engines you still haven't told me what Chinese missiles the Babur, Raad, and Taimoor are meant to be copies of, while it's clear your brahmos is a glorified Soviet era anti ship missile. And just like every indian, on queue when you have nothing to add, it's "but 4 trillion economy saaar" hey, like I said, whatever makes you sleep at night.

How is it a copy. It's literally a more advanced JV with modern electro optical sensors and more efficient propulsion. It's literally in name Brahmaputra+ Moskwa rivers

Anyone in the world can tell your missiles are running Chinese propulsion considering you can't even manufacture CD70 moped engines and import it from China .

METALLURGY naam ki bhi chidiya hoti hai koi

 

[Jaeger]

Can you tell me what missile they copied? What Chinese missile did they paint? But of course, it's ok for you to copy a soviet era anti ship missile, repaint it, and call it "indigenous".

Fateh 1 , Fateh 2 missiles are Chinese WeiShi series of missiles.

Fateh 3 is Chinese HD1 missile.

Fateh 4 js a variant of Chinese YJ62/ Babur cruise missile.

 

[niubi]

Taimoor and Raad appear to be Pakistan's own. Babur may have some YJ-62 influence given the cooperation between the two countries and the age of the missile.

But who cares, everyone has those copies, license productions, joint ventures (which Fateh series apparently is too).

Pakistan looks like it has quite a few LACM types. I had no idea Pakistan had Taimoor and Raad.

 

[Jaeger]

Taimoor and Raad appear to be Pakistan's own. Babur may have some YJ-62 influence given the cooperation between the two countries and the age of the missile.

But who cares, everyone has those copies, license productions, joint ventures (which Fateh series apparently is too).

Pakistan looks like it has quite a few LACM types. I had no idea Pakistan had Taimoor and Raad.

Why do you say, that Fateh series is joint venture and not off the shelf purchase?

What reason would China have to jointly develop these missiles with Pakistan, when the Chinese variants of these missiles debuted many years ago in some cases decades before Pakistan tested its first Fatah missile.

 

[niubi]

Why do you say, that Fateh series is joint venture and not off the shelf purchase?

What reason would China have to jointly develop these missiles with Pakistan, when the Chinese variants of these missiles debuted many years ago in some cases decades before Pakistan tested its first Fatah missile.

Those HN-2 and HN-3 are not purchased by China. They are some private small timer company's products and when they presented it at their own little space in a weapons trade show, they presented products that aren't at the service level just advanced prototypes level maybe.

The Chinese State has no reason to jointly develop missiles with Pakistan when it can simply sell direct.

These new Fateh missiles from Pakistan if they have anything to do with Chinese suppliers, are possibly finished as joint ventures between Pakistan and the company who initially developed the missile.

As for Brahmos, it is a development on the Onikes and the joint venture is not so much in the development but the manufacturing of the missile. Russia doesn't use Brahmos (similar to how China doesn't use JF-17) but Russia does have missiles basically Russian version of Brahmos. It would be more accurate to call Brahmos an Indian version of Oniks.

Brahmos is not a clean sheet design joint venture with Russia. Russia and India basically developed an Indian specific model of the Oniks (similar to Su-30MKK and Su-30MKI models are Su-30 developments specifically for China and India in the past). This India specific Oniks (Brahmos) being manufactured in India too.

Fateh missiles are a bit more clean sheet than that. There are no pre-existing completed Chinese missiles within the Chinese service that these missiles are based on. So they are either joint ventures where Pakistan and those companies finished their development together with who knows what type and level of input OR they are entirely Pakistani developed. If it is the case that the HN-3 is a finished product when Pakistan purchased it and then made into Fateh - X, then it would be close to a Brahmos style thing where they took an already existing Chinese missile (albeit not purchased by China's own armed services) and domesticated it as licensed agreement or even copy. Either way it wouldn't be that much less than Brahmos.

 

[Jaeger]

Those HN-2 and HN-3 are not purchased by China. They are some private small timer company's products and when they presented it at their own little space in a weapons trade show, they presented products that aren't at the service level just advanced prototypes level maybe.

The Chinese State has no reason to jointly develop missiles with Pakistan when it can simply sell direct.

These new Fateh missiles from Pakistan if they have anything to do with Chinese suppliers, are possibly finished as joint ventures between Pakistan and the company who initially developed the missile.

As for Brahmos, it is a development on the Onikes and the joint venture is not so much in the development but the manufacturing of the missile. Russia doesn't use Brahmos (similar to how China doesn't use JF-17) but Russia does have missiles basically Russian version of Brahmos. It would be more accurate to call Brahmos an Indian version of Oniks.

Brahmos is not a clean sheet design joint venture with Russia. Russia and India basically developed an Indian specific model of the Oniks (similar to Su-30MKK and Su-30MKI models are Su-30 developments specifically for China and India in the past). This India specific Oniks (Brahmos) being manufactured in India too.

Fateh missiles are a bit more clean sheet than that. There are no pre-existing completed Chinese missiles within the Chinese service that these missiles are based on. So they are either joint ventures where Pakistan and those companies finished their development together with who knows what type and level of input OR they are entirely Pakistani developed. If it is the case that the HN-3 is a finished product when Pakistan purchased it and then made into Fateh - X, then it would be close to a Brahmos style thing where they took an already existing Chinese missile (albeit not purchased by China's own armed services) and domesticated it as licensed agreement or even copy. Either way it wouldn't be that much less than Brahmos.

Umm.. these are but assumptions that Chinese company do not present finished weapons at weapons expos, but just prototypes.

Similarly it would be hard to imagine that with its limited budget Pakistan would pay so much extra for Transfer of technology and setting up production lines with in Pakistan, when Chinese manufacturers can produce them for so much cheaper.

After all Pakistan does not foresee any threat of China sanctioning Pakistan and stopping the weapon supplies.

I firmy believe off the shelf purchase is the most logical route Pakistan would have taken here.

The only weird part is that Pakistan does not acknowledge that these are Chinese missiles.

Somehow Pakistani establishment believes that if they can claim ownership of these weapons or atleast not publicly declare that these are purchased from another country then people of Pakistan would commend them for "wonders" they have been able to do with such limited budget or "surprises" they have been able to pull.

 

[niubi]

Umm.. these are but assumptions that Chinese company do not present finished weapons at weapons expos, but just prototypes.

Similarly it would be hard to imagine that with its limited budget Pakistan would pay so much extra for Transfer of technology and setting up production lines with in Pakistan, when Chinese manufacturers can produce them for so much cheaper.

After all Pakistan does not foresee any threat of China sanctioning Pakistan and stopping the weapon supplies.

I firmy believe off the shelf purchase is the most logical route Pakistan would have taken here.

The only weird part is that Pakistan does not acknowledge that these are Chinese missiles.

Somehow Pakistani establishment believes that if they can claim ownership of these weapons or atleast not publicly declare that these are purchased from another country then people of Pakistan would commend them for "wonders" they have been able to do with such limited budget or "surprises" they have been able to pull.

I didn't say Chinese companies do not present finished weapons at expos. Most obviously are in service weapons and export versions of older weapons.

The company that produced the HD-1 or whatever it's called is not a weapons manufacturer but a mining company that just had so much excess engineering capacity (and probably ex military engineering staff) that they ventured into f-cking missiles for shits and giggles lol.

The HD-1 (I previously incorrectly called HN-2 and 3 which are Chinese weapons used by PLA if I recall) is what I'm saying could have just been prototype level and they are not affiliated with the Chinese military because PLA never expressed any interest for the HD-1 and those missiles produced by that company.

Right I'm not sure about what Pakistan has said regarding their Fatah 3 missile except that it's supersonic. It may involve that Chinese mining company's HD-1 and extent of Pakistan's involvement in finishing the product (if any work from Pakistan) is unknown too.

If Pakistan is claiming it all it's own or not saying anything about it (so neither way), that still doesn't mean it's not Pakistani developed. Conclusion is to just this lineage question go. It's also not that important for the military. Pakistan's MIC obviously is not comparable to India's. The economic size difference is like 5-10 times, the land size difference is like 4 times different and the population difference is around 6 times. This would be like comparing New Zealand and expecting it to have more of a MIC than Australia (two very similar cultures and people etc).

Previous to Fatah 3, Pakistan did not have any supersonic cruise missiles and China wasn't selling the YJ-12 which is an anti-ship missile rather than a supersonic LACM.

However I have heard that China is phasing out its DF-100 missiles and honestly they could simply sell those to Pakistan instead but the cost could be incredibly unbearable since they weren't popular and made in small numbers. Basically a stop gap for when CJ-1000 HCM arrived into service.

Pakistan needs a supersonic cruise missile of range >300km as a tactical equivalent to India's Brahmos. It finally has one in Fatah 3.

 

[Corax]

How is it a copy. It's literally a more advanced JV with modern electro optical sensors and more efficient propulsion. It's literally in name Brahmaputra+ Moskwa rivers

Anyone in the world can tell your missiles are running Chinese propulsion considering you can't even manufacture CD70 moped engines and import it from China .

METALLURGY naam ki bhi chidiya hoti hai koi

So for indians like you your cope is Pakistan can't produce moped engines, is that what they brain wash you with at the RSS summer camps? Because all you little fag boys wearing brown shorts and carrying sticks bark the same crap. Just because you're calling it a JV doesn't mean it's not a copy

 

[Corax]

Fateh 1 , Fateh 2 missiles are Chinese WeiShi series of missiles.

Fateh 3 is Chinese HD1 missile.

Fateh 4 js a variant of Chinese YJ62/ Babur cruise missile.

Go check the diameter of F2, there's no equivalent Chinese missiles. YJ62 is coastal anti ship missile, it's well known Pakistan license built that as the Zarb, but that came well after Babur induction, and they use different TELs.