Indus Valley Civilisation is largest source of ancestry for South Asians

[r3alist]

A side note on calling the IVC “ancient Pakistan”. Pakistan today constituted the bulk of the lands of the IVC, so calling ancient Pakistan can be focused on that time.

When people think of the ancient Egyptians, it’s focus on that region that is modern day Egypt today. The ancient Egyptians didn’t refer to their region as Egypt. They called it “Kemet”.

So while trying to popularize the concept of ancient Pakistan will take time, a focus on the IVC and this genetic research, and not the post-IVC aryan civilization that followed, will allow Pakistani authorities to tell the story from geographical centric point of view. The people that populate modern day Pakistan are the descendants of those IVC peoples and they have gone through a journey or cultural change, just like the Egyptians and Iraqis but are the natives of the land and this is who they are, and so on.

Exactly exactly

It's about simply talking about it more and connecting it to your actual geographical history under your feet

As mentioned the ziaification excessively suppressed anything non islamic, that was not a service to the country or the people

This sort of acknowledgement would be useful to boost the national foundations and projection, not undermine it.

As it happens opportunistic Indians seized the neglected narrative and simply lay claim

If Pakistanis talk about the ancient history under their feet, in their country as ancient Pakistan Indians can only watch from a distance, ivc mostly in Pakistan anyway

 

[Joe Shearer]

I heard name India was derived from Indus civilization, is it true?

No.

 

[suriya]

I heard name India was derived from Indus civilization, is it true?

No derived from Indus river.

 

[suriya]

Of the 1400 sites of the

Indus Valley Civilisation​

~930 sites are in India. The oldest-known site of the Indus Valley Civilization, Bhirrana, and the largest site, Rakhigarhi are both in Harayana.

 

[FuturePAF]

Of the 1400 sites of the

Indus Valley Civilisation​

~930 sites are in India. The oldest-known site of the Indus Valley Civilization, Bhirrana, and the largest site, Rakhigarhi are both in Harayana.

Pakistan hasn’t done much archaeology, so much to explore. Almost certain more sites will come up with extensive archaeological surveys. The majority of the IVC is inside Pakistan, even along the Makran coast, deep into Baluchistan, almost to Quetta and also into KPK. Mohenjodaro and Harappa are the post children of the IVC.

For example, the city of Ganweriwala, downstream from Rakhigarhi, needs to be properly excavated and explored.

Ganweriwal - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

https://www.reddit.com/r/Maps/comments/ocuk5b/the_ancient_indus_valley_civilization_vs_the

 

[Nilgiri]

Pakistan hasn’t done much archaeology, so much to explore. Almost certain more sites will come up with extensive archaeological surveys. The majority of the IVC is inside Pakistan, even along the Makran coast, deep into Baluchistan, almost to Quetta and also into KPK. Mohenjodaro and Harappa are the post children of the IVC.

For example, the city of Ganweriwala, downstream from Rakhigarhi, needs to be properly excavated and explored.

Ganweriwal - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

https://www.reddit.com/r/Maps/comments/ocuk5b/the_ancient_indus_valley_civilization_vs_the

Whole subcontinent needs comprehensive approach with machine learning (to help prioritize search grids with existing element matrices/tensors)...and then have Lidar, ground penetrating radars, remote sensing and so on to map things non-invasively first. Final land acquisition/segregation for manual digs (and proper design of these manual digs) should be last step. Also preserving existing sites for both heritage value and future research (with better technology to come later too).

Machine learning detects 6,000 potential archaeological mounds

Algorithms reveal mapped features in a landscape altered by urban and agricultural growth

www.nature.com

Regarding all ages too (paleolithic, neolithic, bronze, iron to the current era).

Archaeological survey India is not run anywhere well as it could be, but (the counterpart) is even worse in Pakistan from what I can gather.

Example:

https://voicepk.net/2023/08/is-it-development-that-is-erasing-gandhara-civilizations-neglected-sites/

Also @Oscar might find this thread interesting.

 

[Oscar]

Whole subcontinent needs comprehensive approach with machine learning (to help prioritize search grids with existing element matrices/tensors)...and then have Lidar, ground penetrating radars, remote sensing and so on to map things non-invasively first. Final land acquisition/segregation for manual digs (and proper design of these manual digs) should be last step. Also preserving existing sites for both heritage value and future research (with better technology to come later too).

Machine learning detects 6,000 potential archaeological mounds

Algorithms reveal mapped features in a landscape altered by urban and agricultural growth

www.nature.com

Regarding all ages too (paleolithic, neolithic, bronze, iron to the current era).

Archaeological survey India is not run anywhere well as it could be, but (the counterpart) is even worse in Pakistan from what I can gather.

Example:

https://voicepk.net/2023/08/is-it-development-that-is-erasing-gandhara-civilizations-neglected-sites/

Also @Oscar might find this thread interesting.

Easily the data could be handed over to AI to exponentially boost data analysis - but not a priority nor is archeology anymore a viable profession for anyone living in Pakistan at least.

 

[Kambojaric]

Pakistan hasn’t done much archaeology, so much to explore. Almost certain more sites will come up with extensive archaeological surveys. The majority of the IVC is inside Pakistan, even along the Makran coast, deep into Baluchistan, almost to Quetta and also into KPK. Mohenjodaro and Harappa are the post children of the IVC.

For example, the city of Ganweriwala, downstream from Rakhigarhi, needs to be properly excavated and explored.

Ganweriwal - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

https://www.reddit.com/r/Maps/comments/ocuk5b/the_ancient_indus_valley_civilization_vs_the

I would go so far as to say that organized archaeology is practically non-existent in Sindh and Balochistan.

A lot of good work is being done in KPK and even N Punjab to some extent (especially with the help of foreign professionals like Luca Olivieri) which has resulted in major findings in recent years as far as Gandhara is concerned.

However the IVC is left practically untouched and that is probably for the best given the treatment and general neglect IVC sites receive at the hand of the local authorities there. Hopefully in the future more sites can be found when the political situation is more stable.

 

[Joe Shearer]

However the IVC is left practically untouched and that is probably for the best given the treatment and general neglect IVC sites receive at the hand of the local authorities there. Hopefully in the future more sites can be found when the political situation is more stable.

I wish things were that easy, so that benign neglect would preserve the ruins.
It won't; some of the sites are being drowned due to the soil becoming waterlogged. One is tempted to say, Sic transit gloria mundi.

 

[Lulldapull]

I heard name India was derived from Indus civilization, is it true?

Darius the third named India as Henduss. From which is derived Hindu or Indus…..his cartographer came up with this name more than 2500 years ago now.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Darius the third named India as Henduss. From which is derived Hindu or Indus…..his cartographer came up with this name more than 2500 years ago now.

Wrong information. Stick to what is accurate, please.

 

[Joe Shearer]

No derived from Indus river.

Please see #70.
It is better to give a somewhat detailed explanation and pre-empt ill-informed posts like that.

 

[Thinking]

River Sindhu was called Indos/Hindos by greeks/persians. Which eventually lead to India and Hindus.

 

[Developereo]

Pakistan hasn’t done much archaeology, so much to explore. Almost certain more sites will come up with extensive archaeological surveys. The majority of the IVC is inside Pakistan, even along the Makran coast, deep into Baluchistan, almost to Quetta and also into KPK. Mohenjodaro and Harappa are the post children of the IVC.

 

[Joe Shearer]

River Sindhu was called Indos/Hindos by greeks/persians. Which eventually lead to India and Hindus.

The Persians aspirated the sibilants of their cousins. So Sindhu became Hindu.
The Greeks, in turn, since the victories of the first emperors over Asia Minor, as citizens of the vast Achaemenid empire, travelled freely around it, as merchants, mercenaries, navigators of the watery borders, and found the east called Hindu. Their own accents took over, and the Hindu became 'indou, and Indikos.

From that time onwards, from about the 4th century BC, perhaps even the 5th century BC, the land across the Sindhu was known to the Greeks and the rest of the Europeans as Indikos, or as India. The Persians continued to use their original term, Hindu, and the word came to signify the land to the east of the Sindhu and the inhabitants of that land.