Iran - Israel/US War: Israel-US declare war on Iran, Iran responds

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the vicious kind said:
Yeah do that.. so Abdul Q and his family cry field marshal this and field marshal that when they are forced to pay Rs.600 per litre. I wonder if cars can run on PTI-supporter tears?
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I think the field marshal is doing fine I’d worry about the average citizens of the world, Saudis attacked Houthis they are the instigators so if the Saudis have now opened a new front on the Saudis
 
Master Chief said:
I'm going to ask you about your very first statement in light of the following text of the MoU:

"ARTICLE 1:

1 — The Islamic Republic of Iran and the United States, together with their allies
in the current war, declare upon the signing of this Memorandum of
Understanding an immediate and permanent end to the war on all fronts,
including Lebanon, and undertake that from now on they will not launch any
hostile action against each other, and will refrain from the threat or use of force against each other. The final agreement will confirm the provisions of this Article and the remaining Articles."

Israel did fire upon Lebanese towns and kill Lebanese less than a day after the declaration was signed.
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Brother, I will repeat it one last time. Did you expect Israel to stop in Lebanon overnight? To not attempt to keep going? Did you not see the repeated back and forth between the US and Israel on it? The increasing pressure on Israel to stop? Did the Iranian attack stop it? Iran saw and understood all of this fully and wisely is/was giving it time. It's you guys, who are presenting it as the excuse for them. The attack was in reality a foolish gamble to keep the entirety of Hormuz under their control beyond this war. The vessels weren't Israeli or in Israel. Don't take my word for it,

"Iran blamed the US for the incident on Tuesday, saying Washington’s efforts to open up new routes through the strait constituted a breach of the memorandum of understanding the two parties had signed."

www.theguardian.com

US launches strikes against Iran after attacks on vessels in strait of Hormuz

US Central Command says Tehran in ‘clear violation’ of ceasefire with ‘unwarranted’ attacks on commercial ships
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

Master Chief said:
The rest of your post essentially tells me that ANY agreement between belligerent parties is pointless as all that matters is the innate strength to enforce said agreement by the involved parties (or perhaps by an external guarantor, but no such guarantor is possible in this case due to the strength of 1 of the parties). So, let us assume that all treaties are useless unless enforced, presumably violently, for the sake of argument. Be that as it may, I am not actually arguing against might being right or against the concept of a victor writing history as they see fit. I am pointing out to you that the "allies" of the USA broke the conditions of this agreement. Whether anyone can or even should remedy this matter is not relevant to my assertion.
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It doesn't. Please read it again. I've explained it half a dozen times today.

lightning f57 said:
Whats fallacious? you wrote wrong statements I corrected you.


Point 1: The United States of America and the Islamic Republic of Iran and their allies in the current war



Exactly the US didn't fulfill it, infact they backed out of the MOU thereby not committing to it.
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Please go back to my post and read it as many times as you need to understand it.
 
Last edited:

Iran’s president meets Russia’s energy minister over plan to connect grids​

Iran’s president and Russia’s energy minister have been discussing several projects, including connecting the Iranian and Russian electricity grids, reports Fars news agency.

Very good.
 
the vicious kind said:
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July 14th, Bastille Day, main holiday in France celebrating Bastille prison taken over, USA celebrates creating a naval prison.
 
krash said:
Please don't waste everyone's time with blatantly fallacious arguments. What made you think that this would work?

Point 1: Israel is not the US. The US was quite clearly attempting to stop the Israeli attacks. Childish to expect it overnight.

Point 6: "To develop" and "The mechanism for the implementation of this plan will be finalized as part of a final deal within 60 days." The Iranians were in Qatar recently to sort it out.

Point 7: "in an agreed upon schedule. As part of the final deal, the Islamic Republic of Iran and the United States of America acknowledge the critical importance of the sanctions termination issue above mentioned, and express their intentions to immediately address these issues in the negotiations in order to achieve mutual agreement on them."

Point 11: "The United States of America and the Islamic Republic of Iran will mutually agree on the procedures related to the release of these funds during negotiations."
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Orange cannot waiver sanctions, nor release frozen funds ... even after signing the MoU with Iranians he clarified that those funds will not be coming from the US.

The president has limited ability to waive some sanctions... primarily the previous EO's or others designated to be under executive discretion.
It is instead a muleta being waived by orange to color something he cannot deliver. And, then blame it on congress. It becomes worse yet... if he loses control over the house and congress in midterms. This isn't new, even under JCPOA Obama bypassed congressional appropriation to release some funds.
In this case they didn't even arrive at that stage... even sanctions relief has to go through congress... the president can only lift some sanctions and temporarily.
To use the bullfighting terminology again... orange being the metador waiving the muleta to direct negotiations and then simply step aside. The souther corridor simply couldn't have been allowed to become it's own thing to be grandfathered in once the initial negotiations were concluded... because that was another trap ready to backfire once all else was concluded... a new normal was already established. And Iran would be hard pressed to unwind with Oman that was simply endowed an alternative by arm twisting.
Of course, going forward if Iranians study the mechanisms that drive policy in the US would want those guarantees to be ratified by congress not that they can be sidswipped when conducive but at least that would be the law of the land.
 
in the last 26 days, more than 80 million barrels of Iranian crude oil and refined products (currently worth >$6 billion) have been shipped out of the region.

there are also more than 60 million barrels of floating storage capacity available within the blockade perimeter should Iran be forced to scale back its oil production.
 
Persian Gulf said:
in the last 26 days, more than 80 million barrels of Iranian crude oil and refined products (currently worth >$6 billion) have been shipped out of the region.

there are also more than 60 million barrels of floating storage capacity available within the blockade perimeter should Iran be forced to scale back its oil production.
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I can see trump escalating, probably planning limited ground troops. But that will not end well for him.

The question is, will Iranian leaders let the US continue to dictate this tit for tat or will they play chicken and let the world and US economy tumble to the extent that a longer term solution will need to be seriously hashed out. Otherwise this is rinse and repeat and I dont think longer term a low intensity war benefits Iran at all, the US will continue to get resupplied and get logistical support from GCC countries whereas Iran I am not so sure can replenish anywhere as quick.
 
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