Iran - Israel/US War: Israel-US declare war on Iran, Iran responds

[r3alist]

China is not best served by a fast war.

Although a fast war would inflict a geopolitical humiliation it would save the USA from Trump’s financial calamity.

China wants USA bogged down in Iran so instead of plotting against China - USA needs China’s help to contain Iran.

China will provide just enough help to Iran to continue. But the idiot Mullahs better let the IRGC develop the bomb. Otherwise Iran will be in another decades long war.

I don't believe the USA are bogged down, in terms of troops


Who is relatively suffering more, Iran or USA?

Sure everyone is taking a hit, but the USA is seeing Saudi Iran weaker, internally and externally.

There has been no fuel crisis

It's a bit difficult

So if Iran have done their maximum what card's are left


They won't test a bomb, alternatives are being looked at it for oil.

 

[Master Chief]

Let's analyze it rationally. We have two options:

Option 1: Keep the status quo which means that Iran might get nuked in the future, our currency will depreciate by 60%-70% every year, over half of the population will live in absolute poverty soon, and eventually, Iran will be balkanized and devoured by regional powers in the Middle East. Minimum wage in Iran is $70 per month now. For a country where average family size is close to 4, even if both parents work with minimum wage, income per capita is 1 dollar and 16 cents per day. This is below the UN poverty line, and it is only going to get worse under naval and aerial blockade.

Option 2: Get rid of the current ideology that has disarmed and impoverished our country in support of people who don't even like us (namely, the Palestinians) and take a risk for a better future. Sure, Iran might lose some territories like Kurdistan if we don't unite by then, but that's more than granted if this regime stays in power and this situation continues as is. Do you think this people who couldn't even get close to the area of the pilots during the war can keep our territorial integrity without even the means of transporting our troops to the front line?

So, here is my way of thinking:
Option 1 is balkanization + a Chinese puppet regime + potentially getting nuked + poverty, lack of civilian and military transport and eventual disarmament after defeat.
And option 2 is balkanization + a US puppet regime. Which one do you think is worse?


You chose option 1, if I'm not mistaken. You guys just do not want to accept that we have reached a deadend. And there were many people who warned the system of this day for decades, but the system chose to continue this path.

Before Khamenei's death, people blamed it on Khamenei but who is to blame for it now?

Since the revolution, Iran has done more and sacrificed more for the Palestinian cause than any modern Arab nation I can think of, however, the strategies were always flawed - too much painting of targets onto your own backs for no reward. Indeed, Tehran even drew the ire of many in the middle east, somewhat confusingly to the onlooking observer who might naturally assume more co-operative rather than rivalling approaches to supposedly pan-Islamic concerns.

Nobody reasonable would criticise Iran now if you cut your losses and walled yourselves off from these pan-Islamic fantasies.

One other observation though. Tehran has succumbed to Israel's grand game exactly as everybody else did. Oftentimes when you might think you have been helping Palestinians, you have been helping Israel (by generating their cassus belli). Hamas and Hezb are guilty of the same.

It is now clear to all of us that such a manipulative rival can only be defeated by a long-term and quietly executed strategy.

 

[retaxis]

China just pays lip service to anti nuclear proliferation but deep down it does not care much. NK developed thermonuclear weapons and china never took any action and deep down feels if Israel is allowed nukes so should its enemies too be allowed nukes. Same as well with Pakistan, China helped Pakistan develop nukes as well with sharing technology while saying anti proliferation but doing the opposite.

 

[BigMela2onin]

Let's analyze it rationally. We have two options:

Option 1: Keep the status quo which means that Iran might get nuked in the future, our currency will depreciate by 60%-70% every year, over half of the population will live in absolute poverty soon, and eventually, Iran will be balkanized and devoured by regional powers in the Middle East. Minimum wage in Iran is $70 per month now. For a country where average family size is close to 4, even if both parents work with minimum wage, income per capita is 1 dollar and 16 cents per day. This is below the UN poverty line, and it is only going to get worse under naval and aerial blockade.

Option 2: Get rid of the current ideology that has disarmed and impoverished our country in support of people who don't even like us (namely, the Palestinians) and take a risk for a better future. Sure, Iran might lose some territories like Kurdistan if we don't unite by then, but that's more than granted if this regime stays in power and this situation continues as is. Do you think this people who couldn't even get close to the area of the pilots during the war can keep our territorial integrity without even the means of transporting our troops to the front line?

So, here is my way of thinking:
Option 1 is balkanization + a Chinese puppet regime + potentially getting nuked + poverty, lack of civilian and military transport and eventual disarmament after defeat.
And option 2 is balkanization + a US puppet regime. Which one do you think is worse?

Kurds are completely irrelevant, they will be discarded just as they were in Syria. What Iran will lose is it Arab and Azeri parts, and I would expect Baloch parts to solve the Hormuz problem. What you will end up with is a resourceless nation, of no geopolitical relevance, with no coastline access, and half the population. It will make Afghanistan look like a rich country in comparison.

You chose option 1, if I'm not mistaken. You guys just do not want to accept that we have reached a deadend. And there were many people who warned the system of this day for decades, but the system chose to continue this path.

Before Khamenei's death, people blamed it on Khamenei but who is to blame for it now?

khamenei's system is IR and still in place. His entire ideology of spinning your wheels in place has been internalized by everyone at the top, and his son hasn't bothered to try anything different. There is no viable alternative due to how entrenched the sanctions profiteers and how normalized corruption is in Iranian society. If a reformist takeover happens, it will make the concessions the Qajars were giving the west look like a fair deal in comparison. There will be no improvement in economic conditions just as there hasn't been in syria or venezuela.
The best option is for nationalist officers in the military to decide enough is enough and remove/purge the current government in totality. Anything other than that and you'll get more of the same.

 

[marco-polo]

I would prefer Balkanization to the current situation. The current situation will lead to Balkanization and much worse than Balkanization in the near future

And that's besides the fact that you guys talk like you understand anything about Iran. You don't. You have no idea about anything regarding Iran. And you are in no position to tell the people of Iran about their own country. That's the highest form of ignorance and arrogance.

Also, stop talking like Israel is a major obstacle in Iran's progress without the Islamic Republic. Turkey and Israel have bilateral ties. Saudi Arabia and Israel have bilateral ties. The Emirates and Israel have bilateral ties. Imperial Iran and Israel were allies. Stop writing nonsense and pretend it is undisputed fact. It was the Islamic Republic that severed all diplomatic ties with Israel and said it didn't recognize Israel as a legitimate state. Then Iran started to establish proxy groups around Israel to destroy it. Not the other way around. In fact, it wasn't until 1990s that Israel finally decided to treat Iran as its archfoe in the region.

I wrote straight away that the signed treaty made no sense whatsoever, whilst some were pinning their hopes on it.
Italians may not understand much about Iran, as you say.
Yet we can spot a scam from twenty thousand kilometres away.

 

[BigMela2onin]

We don't need someone else to lecture us on nuclear weapons either. Iran will remain in state of a nuclear threshold state whether you like it or not. Americans and their Zionist dog are the savagest bastards that the history of mankind has ever seen.

Why? You have repeatedly said nukes are haram, why would you need to be a threshold state if nukes are out of the question?

We cannot let the nuclear program go or give up on our natural rights or else it can eventually make Iran vulnerable. And we have already announced that we want west Asia to be clean of nuclear weapons. It requires disarmament of the Zionist cancer in the first place and then, on a global scale, return of USA to the old agreement with Russia which was deliberately violated by Americans.

How will you get the jews to give up their nukes? Sanctions? Military pressure? What is the plan there? Perhaps you think they will do it out of the goodness of their hearts?

 

[BananaRepublic]

I don't believe the USA are bogged down, in terms of troops


Who is relatively suffering more, Iran or USA?

Sure everyone is taking a hit, but the USA is seeing Saudi Iran weaker, internally and externally.

There has been no fuel crisis

It's a bit difficult

So if Iran have done their maximum what card's are left


They won't test a bomb, alternatives are being looked at it for oil.

The naivety of looking at this war as an “eye for an eye” war still astonishes me.

Who was hurting more in the Vietnam war?

Did that lead to USA winning the war for IndoChina supremacy?

You have to look at why each side went to war!!!!

They didn’t go to war to see who could hurt who more!!!!

USA waged war to turn Iran into a US bitch. Like the rest of Arabia.

And Iran put up a fight because they didn’t want to be US’ Red Light district.

Last time I checked US sailors dare not get within a 1000 miles of Iran let alone roam around Tehran looking for Iranian ladyboys!!!

So, please stop your naive musings that insults the only Muslims brave enough to put up a fight!!!

 

[Damir]

It is now clear to all of us that such a manipulative rival can only be defeated by a long-term and quietly executed strategy.

I'm afraid the opportunity has been missed. Since the end of World War II Islamic nations have had the opportunity to develop and strengthen. They could, but they didn't want to. And now, if they wanted to, they wouldn't be able to.

 

[BananaRepublic]

I'm afraid the opportunity has been missed. Since the end of World War II Islamic nations have had the opportunity to develop and strengthen. They could, but they didn't want to. And now, if they wanted to, they wouldn't be able to.

They still can. Never too late especially with a rising China.

But we must avoid US sponsored colour revolutions that ties us closer to the great Satan.

 

[Michael]

Why is China acting like a hypocrite when it is a nuclear state itself?

Your behavior is like a castrated man accusing other, normal men of enjoying the pleasure of sexual intercourse.

 

[marco-polo]

Let's analyze it rationally. We have two options:

Option 1: Keep the status quo which means that Iran might get nuked in the future, our currency will depreciate by 60%-70% every year, over half of the population will live in absolute poverty soon, and eventually, Iran will be balkanized and devoured by regional powers in the Middle East. Minimum wage in Iran is $70 per month now. For a country where average family size is close to 4, even if both parents work with minimum wage, income per capita is 1 dollar and 16 cents per day. This is below the UN poverty line, and it is only going to get worse under naval and aerial blockade.

Option 2: Get rid of the current ideology that has disarmed and impoverished our country in support of people who don't even like us (namely, the Palestinians) and take a risk for a better future. Sure, Iran might lose some territories like Kurdistan if we don't unite by then, but that's more than granted if this regime stays in power and this situation continues as is. Do you think this people who couldn't even get close to the area of the pilots during the war can keep our territorial integrity without even the means of transporting our troops to the front line?

So, here is my way of thinking:
Option 1 is balkanization + a Chinese puppet regime + potentially getting nuked + poverty, lack of civilian and military transport and eventual disarmament after defeat.
And option 2 is balkanization + a US puppet regime. Which one do you think is worse?


You chose option 1, if I'm not mistaken. You guys just do not want to accept that we have reached a deadend. And there were many people who warned the system of this day for decades, but the system chose to continue this path.

Before Khamenei's death, people blamed it on Khamenei but who is to blame for it now?

You sound like an anti-communist German Jew who has always supported the right wing. And when the Nazis come along, he simply cannot understand that there is no way they could possibly like you.
Your only way out lies in resistance and in forming alliances – alliances with those you detest, but who are the only ones who can keep you afloat because you share common interests – and in abandoning this quest for affection from those who only want to use you today and make you disappear tomorrow.

 

[BHAN85]

Why is China acting like a hypocrite when it is a nuclear state itself?

Also, Iran has every right to charge tolls if it can physically control the water way.

Why people expect justice from someone who have power? Do you think Chinese acquired their strength through justice?

It's the typical brainwashing of people who are tamed by a state.

Sovereignty and nuclear weapons can't be asked to anyone, you have to take it, if you want it.

 

[Michael]

As one of the P5 members of the UN Security Council, China is obligated to uphold the consensus reached by the Council.

China must publicly support the relevant resolutions on Iran adopted by the UN Security Council. However, in terms of practical implementation, there is considerable room for flexibility—though such pragmatic adjustments are never conducted openly.

Thus, on the stage of international diplomacy, China must oppose Iran’s development of nuclear weapons; yet, China has never opposed Iran’s peaceful use of nuclear energy. There is a vast amount of ambiguity here. As to how much, you'll have to figure it out for yourself.

As for the issue of SOH charges, I have already addressed this previously.

Point 3 of the document "China and the United States Reach Eight Deliverables and Understandings"—released by the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs regarding President Xi Jinping's visit to the United States—addresses the issue of Iran.

Original text:

3. The two heads of state agree that Iran should honor its commitment to not developing nuclear weapons, and no country or institution can be allowed to impose tolls on international waterways. ------ Link to the full text!

This section touches upon two points:

1. The issue of Iran's nuclear weapons. The statement on this matter is entirely consistent with the Chinese government's long-standing position and reflects no change whatsoever.

2. The issue of tolls in the Strait of Hormuz. Neither the Chinese nor the English version makes direct reference to the "Strait of Hormuz" (SOH); instead, the term "international waterways" is used. This phrasing represents a broader definition rather than specifically addressing the issue of tolls for the SOH. It encompasses the Trump administration's stated intention to levy tolls on the SOH, as well as broader allegations regarding U.S. plans to impose tolls on other "international waterways"—going beyond the specific context of Iran charging tolls for the SOH.

In essence, President Xi Jinping’s visit to the United States had no impact on, nor did it bring about any change to, the relationship and development between China and Iran. It neither took a step forward nor a step back, but simply maintained the status quo.

 

[Zhuge Liang]

— / NEW: The USS George H.W. Bush has left the CENTCOM area of operations

That leaves only the USS George Washington in the Middle East.

The USS Roosevelt is currently on its way from San Diego to CENTCOM, and will arrive in November.

@Middle_East_Spectator

 

[Immortals]