Iran - Israel/US War: Israel-US declare war on Iran, Iran responds

[ToddE]

Qajar Iran was not a beacon of enlightenment and social liberalization during Pahlavi era did not extend much beyond the city.

Being against genocide is a pro-human position. It's also in your interest not the let the jews drag the world back into the dark ages. The same quadcopters shooting and dropping grenades on Palestinian children might do it to you in the coming years if palantir's AI decides your social credit score is too low.

Marxism is not "thing I don't like," Iran is not a socialist or communist country. There is no point debating this.

Peope give shit to Qajars because we only remember their later years clown kings. Early Qajars were warriors that saved Iran. Mohammad Khan Qajar united 7 fragments of Iran into one nation again otherwise just like Penninsula or Southern Caucusus, Iran would have been 5-6 divided states today. He phucked Russians out of NW Iran and Caucasus as well. Man was brutal but his brutality resulted into we having one nation today. Early Fateh Ali Shah was similar, he later became a mad old man but in that tenure the defacto Shah of Iran was Crown Prince Abbas Mirza who had to face British Empire from South and East along with their Khorasani (Afghan) pet traitors, Russia from NW, Ottomans from west. Yet he delivered crushing defeats to all. Yes half of Azerbaijan and Armenia + caucsus were lost but that itself is a victory that not entire region was occupied by Russia which had superior economy and military. Ottomans were put in their place deep inside Turkish territory by Abbas Mirza and his brother Dowlatshah. British could not advance into Sisten or Khorasan which they wanted to do through Afghan Traitors. Military reforms were introducted but clergy again became a hurdle towards Abbas's Nezam i Jadid model. His son Ahmad Shah was OK ruler too but shit started after him with wierdos like Naser al din. It got so bad that had it not been for Reza Khan's rise and later US support for Shahi Iran, Iran would have lost Kurdistan, Azerbaijan and possibly Mazandaran as well as SSRs. Later Qajars were like Khamenei's IRI but earlier ones were no different from might Safavids or Afsharids. Same hot blooded QIzilbash.

 

[kastor ville]

I love the fact they keep using ancient Greek history for their references...
Super Sparta! Lol....joke.

Netanyahu’s ‘super-Sparta’ vision braces Israel for isolated economic future

Israeli PM’s outline of partial autarky and more militarised society stirs up backlash and concern over pariah status

www.theguardian.com

Attach files

Incidentally Israel's stock market crashed 10% after he made these remarks....he had to retract it afterwards.

 

[mangekyo]

This is a topic that is barely discussed, yet it holds significant importance and validity. Some Iranian users here think that after the current regime is removed, the next leadership will be welcomed with open arms by everyone, including the West.

This perspective is misguided and quite naive if you ask me. Why would Russia, Saudi Arabia, and the US be eager to reintegrate Iran into the global energy markets? Why? To allow the Iranians to undermine their profit margins? To disrupt their dominance in global energy? To make the world less dependent on them?

Iran shifted from being pro-Western to anti-Western almost overnight. Why would Israel take the risk again and allow a strong, prosperous, wealthy, and influential Iran to rise once more? Does it make sense to you?

You are correct in noting that some individuals here are beginning to lose touch with reality. They confuse wishful thinking with the actual situation the country is currently facing.

I firmly believe that Israel wants to destroy Iran. I really do. However, I am not sure their goal is a regime change. I'm inclined to believe that Tel Aviv and Washington want to see an Iran that is internally fragmented almost drowning in a civil war, basically slow cooking itself for decades to come. If this plan doesn't work out only then they will try the 'balkanization option'.

They haven’t forgotten what happened last time they built up Iran under the Shah, only for him to turn independent, push OPEC to raise prices, invest heavily in Europe, and create Iran’s own sphere of influence across the Middle East. The 1973 oil embargo nearly bankrupted the West, and they will never risk letting Iran reach that level of power again.

This is why I believe the mullahs have been kept in power deliberately. Sanctions keep Iran weak but alive, with the occasional sanctions relief thrown to prevent collapse.

Why? Maybe to keep a convenient boogeyman, justify endless arms sales to the Gulf, deepen Muslim disunity, and give Israel cover to expand and destroy its Arab neighbors.

But after the recent events, it feels like they no longer need Iran in that role. They are not going to risk another Iran that suddenly challenges the West again, and from their perspective, Balkanization or a Syria/Iraq total collapse scenario is far less of a headache than allowing a strong, independent Iran to rise and undermine their interests.

 

[Bharatah]

 

[ToddE]

Peope give shit to Qajars because we only remember their later years clown kings. Early Qajars were warriors that saved Iran. Mohammad Khan Qajar united 7 fragments of Iran into one nation again otherwise just like Penninsula or Southern Caucusus, Iran would have been 5-6 divided states today. He phucked Russians out of NW Iran and Caucasus as well. Man was brutal but his brutality resulted into we having one nation today. Early Fateh Ali Shah was similar, he later became a mad old man but in that tenure the defacto Shah of Iran was Crown Prince Abbas Mirza who had to face British Empire from South and East along with their Khorasani (Afghan) pet traitors, Russia from NW, Ottomans from west. Yet he delivered crushing defeats to all. Yes half of Azerbaijan and Armenia + caucsus were lost but that itself is a victory that not entire region was occupied by Russia which had superior economy and military. Ottomans were put in their place deep inside Turkish territory by Abbas Mirza and his brother Dowlatshah. British could not advance into Sisten or Khorasan which they wanted to do through Afghan Traitors. Military reforms were introducted but clergy again became a hurdle towards Abbas's Nezam i Jadid model. His son Ahmad Shah was OK ruler too but shit started after him with wierdos like Naser al din. It got so bad that had it not been for Reza Khan's rise and later US support for Shahi Iran, Iran would have lost Kurdistan, Azerbaijan and possibly Mazandaran as well as SSRs. Later Qajars were like Khamenei's IRI but earlier ones were no different from might Safavids or Afsharids. Same hot blooded QIzilbash.

If we have to rank rulers of Iran in last 500 years in terms of what they did for Iran economically, militarily, wars successes, national unity in times of foreign invasions etc it will be:

Nader Shah Afshar
Shah Abbas Safavi
Mohammad Khan Qajar
Shah Esmael Safavi
Abbas Mirza Qajar
Reza Khan Mirpanji/Pahlavi
Reza Shah Pahlavi
Ruhollah Khomeini
Karim Khan Zand

Had General Soleimani had the chance to one day rule Iran in whatever capacity, he would have broken into this list easily. IRI did not deserve him, could not save him, avenge him either.

 

[mangekyo]

Zero chance of this happening.....a civil war will happen first, which is what the enemy wants. Nope!
The path forward is to reform......
Reform the judiciary, reform the election depts get rid of the Expediency council, the Guardian council, the Supreme Leader can stay and be a symbolic guy, like the pope, tell the rest of the clerics to go back to the mosques.....they have no business in govt offices or courts....period. We need bureaucrats and professional civil workers leading institutions....people with actual degrees in such things.
pursue the nuclear ambition in secret....meanwhile negotiate and negotiate, but keep on course with nukes.

Who exactly is going to carry out these reforms?

You can’t reform a system without first openly admitting its mistakes, who in power is willing to take that blame? Who has the authority to abolish the Guardian Council, the Expediency Council, or strip the clerics of their political roles?

The system isn’t just “inefficient,” it is functioning exactly as it was designed to. It was built to concentrate power this way. To implement the changes you’re suggesting, you’d have to alter the system so fundamentally that it would no longer be the same system.

So how is that supposed to happen in practice?

 

[ShapurII]

You know who this guy is....right? I can tell by his writing. Anyways, he doesn't get the point, they had over 40 yrs to get this right, but they brought us to the brink of destruction and breakup.

No, I have no idea to be honest, but now that you said it, I think I can make an educated guess, but I could be wrong.

They won't get any sympathy from me.......also the BS the west is falling, how much Koolaid do you have to drink to believe that? I don't think these guys have ever been outside of Iran....lol.
It's no wonder we got to this point....we have people like these in charge.

The West have been on the verge of falling for quite a long time according to them. I remember they've been saying that for at least 15 years. It's always been a couple of more years!
The West have their own issues. I don't deny that. And they're getting weaker decade after decade but they aren't going to collapse anytime soon. And we cannot wait indefinitely without a plan for them to "fall", as it's not going to happen soon.

 

[ToddE]

Who exactly is going to carry out these reforms?

You can’t reform a system without first openly admitting its mistakes, who in power is willing to take that blame? Who has the authority to abolish the Guardian Council, the Expediency Council, or strip the clerics of their political roles?

The system isn’t just “inefficient,” it is functioning exactly as it was designed to. It was built to concentrate power this way. To implement the changes you’re suggesting, you’d have to alter the system so fundamentally that it would no longer be the same system.

So how is that supposed to happen in practice?

Good post, IRI system is designed to be inherently dysfunctional where institutions are bound in their own places by illogical ideas and if they work, they are designed to clash with eachother. IRI is like USSR in this way. It and will continue producing Soleimani like individuals of brilliance but their efforts will always see the dark end of the tunnel because system itself is the hurdle towards progress. To fix it, the only option is to kiss the "IRI" goodbye but if we do that, Iran will become another post Baathist Iraq of today, a foreign controlled crippled nation. Only solution is change from within the system post Khamenei.

 

[Khorasan Black Flags]

" You know very well what was fired that night; only a few minutes after receiving the order [pressing the button], it will meet you " IRGC Tweet POST

 

[ShapurII]

In any case, this is an unique Iranian technology:
a missile with a rocket engine that operates without fuel

Some people suggest it is Iran’s quantum technology that has been tested

Bro, don't turn us into the laughing stock of the world again please.
Who has said that? It makes no sense.
This is even more embarrassing than Mosta'an-110, or Qaher-313.

 

[Eşbah]

No, I have no idea to be honest, but now that you said it, I think I can make an educated guess, but I could be wrong.


The West have been on the verge of falling for quite a long time according to them. I remember they've been saying that for at least 15 years. It's always been a couple of more years!
The West have their own issues. I don't deny that. And they're getting weaker decade after decade but they aren't going to collapse anytime soon. And we cannot wait indefinitely without a plan for them to "fall", as it's not going to happen soon.

Btw, I completely agree with your observation about the alleged decline of the West and China's rise. Anyone who has interacted with Chinese individuals will quickly realize why they are unlikely to achieve the same level of global soft power (and dominance) that the West, particularly the United States, possesses. Their demeanor tends to be cold, robotic, and highly transactional.

Pakistan is fortunate to possess two characteristics that make it appealing to the Chinese Communist Party:

It is a nuclear-armed military power and, due to its strategic location, serves as an emergency escape route for Chinese goods should the US ever decide to close the Strait of Malacca in case of war.

I recall watching a Franco-German documentary that delved into the China/US rivalry. A Chinese professor of International Relations spoke very openly on the subject during an interview, highlighting that America's status as a global hegemon is largely due to its extensive network of allies and international relationships, which China notably lacks.

What I am trying to say is: the West is here to stay. Any pro-IRI person suggesting otherwise is merely crafting a rationale for the day when the current regime resorts to brutal measures against its own citizens to maintain control.

 

[ShapurII]

You yourself are one the biggest jokes of the forum

Even if I am, I will never say stupid stuff like this:

In any case, this is an unique Iranian technology:
a missile with a rocket engine that operates without fuel

Some people suggest it is Iran’s quantum technology that has been tested

 

[ShapurII]

Idiot this is not what I said

This what many militants and engineers suggested on X & social media

I'm really curious what engineers you follow on X that suggest a failed launch is the test of a rocket engine without fuel using quantum technology.

I really hoped this type of mentality would die with Salami, but it's still there apparently.

 

[ToddE]

This news should be posted in the Iranian missile thread

In any case, this is an unique Iranian technology:
a missile with a rocket engine that operates without fuel

Some people suggest it is Iran’s quantum technology that has been tested

I see other commercial uses of this new technology but not in missiles.

 

[ShapurII]

Btw, I completely agree with your observation about the alleged decline of the West and China's rise. Anyone who has interacted with Chinese individuals will quickly realize why they are unlikely to achieve the same level of global soft power (and dominance) that the West, particularly the United States, possesses. Their demeanor tends to be cold, robotic, and highly transactional.

Pakistan is fortunate to possess two characteristics that make it appealing to the Chinese Communist Party:

It is a nuclear-armed military power and, due to its strategic location, serves as an emergency escape route for Chinese goods should the US ever decide to close the Strait of Malacca in case of war.

I recall watching a Franco-German documentary that delved into the China/US rivalry. A Chinese professor of International Relations spoke very openly on the subject during an interview, highlighting that America's status as a global hegemon is largely due to its extensive network of allies and international relationships, which China notably lacks.

What I am trying to say is: the West is here to stay. Any pro-IRI person suggesting otherwise is merely crafting a rationale for the day when the current regime resorts to brutal measures against its own citizens to maintain control.

Yes, you're absolutely right.
China will eventually surpass the US in science, economy and technology, but it is the US soft power that will help them maintain their hegemony.

China vs the US is like a high school where the US is a rich, tall and muscular kid who gets top school grades but is also extroverted and quite popular and is seen as super cool, while China is the nerd of the class that is a close second or sometimes even the best but has few friends and is introverted.

The main power of the West is not its military machine, it is its soft power. And that's going to stay with us for a long time. Probably more than 30 years. Not to mention that the US controls the internet, and China cannot compete with that. US controls our data and digital fingerprint, but China, not so much.