Iranian President Raisi and Foreign Minister Abdollahian die in helicopter crash in East Azerbaijan

hembo said:
Sad and unfortunate news to wake up to.

Sincere Condolences to Iran and Iranian people on this tragic loss of valuable leaders.
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Me too.
He was a man worried to put Iran back in the international scenario. Trading, culture, tourism... even with Saudi Arabia. Rest in Peace. Also great Foreign Minister has passed away.
 
JaneBhiDoYaaron said:
Agreed but when you investigate every angle must be probed including Israel and pilot doing suicidal act but to give your enemies credit before even investigation started is foolish because that usually stays in peoole brain and whole thing becomes conspiracy.
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Look at the speculation on this thread - along with the Iranian press sources. One minute they are safe - next minute they couldn’t even find the wreckage.
Pointless exercise to speculate and insinuate for example the power of Mossad. Waiting for an extensive enquiry with what happened would be a prudent approach.
God all mighty - I’m beginning to sound like VCheng………
 
Immortals said:
The issue is the area was High elevation and mountainous highly rural.

Iran’s drones require ground stations to broadcast the signal or radio controlled because they lack access to Satcom like Turkey or NATO or even China/Russia. Mountains are terrible places were signals scatter and get lost for ground station controlled drones.

Some Iranians drones can connect to Satcom for things like navigation and minor data transfer, but I doubt large transfer of datalink upload, which is what you need to transmit high quality live video feed back to the operator.

That is my theory why none of Iran’s big drones (Gaza, Fotros, Kaman-22, etc) were deployed. Who knows maybe they were, but the issue will be sending signal to the drone when it is flying low over a rural mountain range being blocked by land masses.
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Exactly. You need a satellite node and SAR capability (Sintetic aperture radar to scan through clouds). None of the actual iranian UAVs have such technology, and if so, (maybe last version of Shahed 129 has both) their engine is not enough to fly +10.000 meters height.

Anyway it is not the moment of talking about UAVs. Iran has lost a Prime Minister capable of dealing with Israel and talking with Saudi Arabia. He was GREAT.
 
Immortals said:
The issue is the area was High elevation and mountainous highly rural.

Iran’s drones require ground stations to broadcast the signal or radio controlled because they lack access to Satcom like Turkey or NATO or even China/Russia. Mountains are terrible places were signals scatter and get lost for ground station controlled drones.

Some Iranians drones can connect to Satcom for things like navigation and minor data transfer, but I doubt large transfer of datalink upload, which is what you need to transmit high quality live video feed back to the operator.

That is my theory why none of Iran’s big drones (Gaza, Fotros, Kaman-22, etc) were deployed. Who knows maybe they were, but the issue will be sending signal to the drone when it is flying low over a rural mountain range being blocked by land masses.
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The drones can fly preplanned path .
 
Ali_Baba said:
That is too many people for that helicopter. Overloaded?
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Good point by you. I was also wondering about that helo's capacity and if anything related to overweight might've contributed or not, but apparently it's not the case.

They had 9 people plus 2 crew - 11 total and its capacity is 15, so they were well under that.

I also remember they packed Hueys like sardines in Vietnam on med-vac missions, but not sure they could even fit that many and this is a slightly different model but along many similar lines.

1- Ayatollah Seyyed Ebrahim Rais al-Sadati
2- Ayatollah Seyyed Muhammad Ali Al-Hashem
3- Dr. Hossein Amirabdollahian
4- Dr. Malik Rahmati
5- Sardar Seyed Mehdi Mousavi
6- An Ansar al-Mahdi Corps (identity unknown)
7- Pilot (unknown identity)
8- The pilot's help, (unknown identity)
9-Kruchev (unknown identity)

Then I read this article this morning, some great info to shed light on a lot of aspects regarding the helo and the incident.

What we know about the crashed helicopter carrying Iran's president​

By Gerry Doyle

(Reuters) -The helicopter that crashed in Iran on Sunday, killing the country's president and foreign minister in mountain fog, was a Bell 212 model, Iranian state media reported.

A civilian version of the ubiquitous Vietnam War-era UH-1N "Twin Huey," such helicopters are in wide use globally by both governments and private operators:

WHAT ARE THE HELICOPTER'S ORIGINS?

Bell Helicopter (now Bell Textron, a division of Textron Inc) developed the aircraft for the Canadian military in the late 1960s as an upgrade of the original UH-1 Iroquois. The new design used two turboshaft engines instead of one, giving it greater carrying capacity. The helicopter was introduced in 1971 and was quickly adopted by both the United States and Canada, according to U.S. military training documents.

WHAT ARE ITS USES?

As a utility helicopter - the UH in its military designation represents those words - the Bell 212 is meant to be adaptable to all sorts of situations, including carrying people, deploying aerial firefighting gear, ferrying cargo and mounting weapons.

The Iranian model that crashed on Sunday was configured to carry government passengers. Bell Helicopter advertises the latest version, the Subaru Bell 412, for police use, medical transport, troop transport, the energy industry and firefighting. According to its type certification documents with the European Union Aviation Safety Agency, it can carry 15 people, including the crew.

SO IT WAS UNDER ITS MAX CAPACITY.

WHICH ORGANISATIONS OPERATE THE HELICOPTER?

Non-military organisations that fly the Bell 212 include Japan's Coast Guard; law enforcement agencies and fire departments in the United States; Thailand's national police; and many others. It is not clear how many Iran's government operates, but its air force and navy have a total of 10, according to FlightGlobal's 2024 World Air Forces directory.

Iran was a major purchaser of Bell and Agusta helicopters under the Shah, becoming the Middle East's largest military helicopter power, according to Western reports.

Iran's current fleet includes an Italian-built naval version, the Agusta Bell AB-212, according to IISS.

The exact origin of the helicopter involved in the crash was not confirmed but an Iranian source said it was connected to the Islamic Republic Red Crescent Society. Experts said the few details available suggested it may be 40 to 50 years old.

HAVE THERE BEEN OTHER INCIDENTS INVOLVING THE BELL 212?

The most recent fatal crash of a Bell 212 was in September 2023, when a privately operated aircraft crashed off the coast of the United Arab Emirates, according to the Flight Safety Foundation, a non-profit focusing on aviation safety.

The most recent Iranian crash of the type was in 2018, killing four people, according to the organisation's database. In 2015, the same database cited reports that a helicopter believed to be an AB-212 had crashed near Kashan, killing three.

IRANIAN AVIATION

Iran has kept its civil and military aviation fleets flying during its isolation since the 1979 revolution through a combination of smuggled parts and reverse-engineering, according to Western analysts and people who spoke about the trade following a nuclear deal later abandoned by Washington.

Its state-owned helicopter services and renovation company, widely known as PANHA, has presented indigenous models said by Western analysts to be based on re-engineered Bell aircraft, though the 212 is not one of the models said to be involved.

"Iran has a reputation for strong technical competence when it comes to aviation," said Cirium Ascend analyst Paul Hayes.

WILL THERE BE AN INVESTIGATION?

As a domestic state flight, the accident does not automatically fall under global rules for air accident probes.

Middle East and aviation safety analysts say there is little chance Iran would turn to outside help for such a politically sensitive matter on its own territory.

Iran sent black boxes to France following the downing of a Ukrainian airliner in 2020, but the role of the French BEA was limited to reading recorders and not investigation or analysis.

"I doubt whether there will be an investigation at all," Hayes said, noting the sensitivity of the matter.

(Reporting by Gerry Doyle, Additional reporting by Tim Hepher, Parisa Hafezi; Editing by Neil Fullick and Christina Fincher)

Source.
 
Mehdipersian said:
One of the passengers was not killed immediately and was alive for an hour after the accident. He calls the authorities.
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They said he told then he heard the ambulance.
Well first there was no ambulance there in first hours of incident .
And how he manage to get an antenna in that region
And since when human can survive an accident that helicopter body could not survive.
 
GoMig-21 said:
The most recent Iranian crash of the type was in 2018, killing four people, according to the organisation's database. In 2015, the same database cited reports that a helicopter believed to be an AB-212 had crashed near Kashan, killing three.
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Wrong
Last year was another Iran red crescent helicopter crash in kohkeluyeh and boyerahmas
I don't recall it was fatal or no.
 
Musings said:
Look at the speculation on this thread - along with the Iranian press sources. One minute they are safe - next minute they couldn’t even find the wreckage.
Pointless exercise to speculate and insinuate for example the power of Mossad. Waiting for an extensive enquiry with what happened would be a prudent approach.
God all mighty - I’m beginning to sound like VCheng………
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The way Iran has handled this whole PR during this sad incident is nothing short of disaster. Sometime it is better just to say “we don’t know” and do not fall for any rumors until things are verified.
Iran should also have requested Turkey and all other nations not to share updates directly and had single line of communication.
 
Hack-Hook said:
The drones can fly preplanned path .
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And then what? Come back and watch the footage? Look how many passes the Turkish drone had to make before it detected something. It took 2 hours worth of passes and had to drop to 9,000 FT with its $1M Canadian FLIR to get better images.

Unless Iran had moved a mobile ground station to a mountain plateau hard to get signal and datalink reliably On top of a mountain.

Again why you need to invest more seriously in space (satellites). Government needs to wake up.
 
I find this stunt by Turkey of drawing their flag with the Akinci flight path in a very poor taste. Nullifies whatever help the Turks provided. An unnecessary and cheap stunt.

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Israel Fuming At UN's Moment Of Silence For Iran Leader: 'What’s Next? A Moment Of Silence For Hitler?' | ZeroHedge

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Ayatollah Ali Khamenei has named a new acting president of the Islamic Republic.

Vice President Mohammad Mokhber has assume interim duties in the wake of Raisi's death. Additionally, Iran’s nuclear negotiator, Ali Bagheri, has been named acting foreign minister. This follows a Sunday statement by Khamenei assuring the public that there would be continuity and stability in the nation's leadership. Iranians have taken to the streets in what's expected to be several days of a national mourning period.
 
Apologies in advance for asking a naive question...Do helicopters have a 'black box' and cockpit voice recorder? If so, were they recovered?
 
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