Iranian UAVs | News and Discussions

[vizier]

Considering the dostance between Iran and Israel, these drones have no utility in Iran-Israel theater. Very useful for cross border infiltration, taking out high value assets like radars, ADs etc

Somehow some of them can be transferred to Hezbollah by parachute landing then it can strike israel or from Iraq they can be launched from within range.

Also if stingers are added to the drone they can be used defensively to hunt down drones or even aircraft without being detected utilizing low rcs. A2a is added to shaheed drones by Russia but used passively when they are locked by helicopters they fire while traveling to target for their own self destruction.
These low rcs high altitude drones can be used in Iranian airspace against israeli or others drones actively hunting them and reusable if recovered by parachute.

Russian Shahed-136 Kamikaze Drones Now Armed With Air-To-Air Missiles

The appearance of a Shahed-136 carrying an air-to-air missile creates a new threat, and a deterrent, for aircrews trying to intercept them.

www.twz.com

If these are sold to Russia they will have the same fate with shaheed. Airframe will be recovered analyzed and measures would be developed by adversaries so Iran would lose the advantage. Who knows maybe Russia makes agreements with those behind the scenes. If it is sold to China with tech transfer same will happen as well. It will be copied almost immediately by Usa-israel afterwards like shaheed136 and installed against you in gulf islands. Some things can be sold but some should not be sold if it gives very sensitive advantages.

Self production requirement against an imminent high risk scenario against israel+Usa and highly sensitive technology are enough excuses to not to sell sensitive equipment to countries like China or Russia and relations should not be effected negatively. Unless ofcourse they want the tech to share it with Usa afterwards with a deal behind which I hope is not the case.

 

[ToddE]

Somehow some of them can be transferred to Hezbollah by parachute landing then it can strike israel or from Iraq they can be launched from within range.

Also if stingers are added to the drone they can be used defensively to hunt down drones or even aircraft without being detected utilizing low rcs. A2a is added to shaheed drones by Russia but used passively when they are locked by helicopters they fire while traveling to target for their own self destruction.
These low rcs high altitude drones can be used in Iranian airspace against israeli or others drones actively hunting them and reusable if recovered by parachute.

Russian Shahed-136 Kamikaze Drones Now Armed With Air-To-Air Missiles

The appearance of a Shahed-136 carrying an air-to-air missile creates a new threat, and a deterrent, for aircrews trying to intercept them.

www.twz.com

If these are sold to Russia they will have the same fate with shaheed. Airframe will be recovered analyzed and measures would be developed by adversaries so Iran would lose the advantage. Who knows maybe Russia makes agreements with those behind the scenes. If it is sold to China with tech transfer same will happen as well. It will be copied almost immediately by Usa-israel afterwards like shaheed136 and installed against you in gulf islands. Some things can be sold but some should not be sold if it gives very sensitive advantages.

Self production requirement against an imminent high risk scenario against israel+Usa and highly sensitive technology are enough excuses to not to sell sensitive equipment to countries like China or Russia and relations should not be effected negatively. Unless ofcourse they want the tech to share it with Usa afterwards with a deal behind which I hope is not the case.

Iran tez bir vaxtda Arablara komak elemeyi dayandirmalidi ..... bu bizim uchun pul israfidi

biz Shahed dronlar Russia verilmesi barada esl razilashmanin ne oldugunu bilmirik, menje Iran bunun qarsiliginda media deyilmegen bir shey alib ...

 

[vizier]

Iran tez bir vaxtda Arablara komak elemeyi dayandirmalidi ..... bu bizim uchun pul israfidi

biz Shahed dronlar Russia verilmesi barada esl razilashmanin ne oldugunu bilmirik, menje Iran bunun qarsiliginda media deyilmegen bir shey alib ...

There could be something not in the media taken from Russia or China(possible tech transfer of shaheed from Iran as in no time a Chinese version was made) in return of some tech transfer nature. In that case shaheed136 copying by Usa etc others and installing the copy drones against Iran should have been thought and a calculated move by Iran. Nothing other than tech transfer of some high value item to Iran would suffice with the knowledge that the drones will be copied against Iran later on.

If it was not a calculated move then there is a worse bug that needs to be fixed. Then there seems to be a lack of critical thinking and easily believing something with small data and emotions triggering with good manners whether made by supposedly ally Russia(questionable) or anyone else. Iran believed Usa easily as well when they triggered emotions of hope for a nuclear deal before the israeli attack. Believing easy needs to be fixed more questioning - critical thinking and emotional control needs to be put in place of that by the decision making officials in that case.

 

[kastor ville]

There could be something not in the media taken from Russia or China(possible tech transfer of shaheed from Iran as in no time a Chinese version was made) in return of some tech transfer nature. In that case shaheed136 copying by Usa etc others and installing the copy drones against Iran should have been thought and a calculated move by Iran. Nothing other than tech transfer of some high value item to Iran would suffice with the knowledge that the drones will be copied against Iran later on.

If it was not a calculated move then there is a worse bug that needs to be fixed. Then there seems to be a lack of critical thinking and easily believing something with small data and emotions triggering with good manners whether made by supposedly ally Russia(questionable) or anyone else. Iran believed Usa easily as well when they triggered emotions of hope for a nuclear deal before the israeli attack. Believing easy needs to be fixed more questioning - critical thinking and emotional control needs to be put in place of that by the decision making officials in that case.

Bro, no offense, but I have to read your posts 3x each just to understand what you're saying....I don't know if you're using a translator or a dictation app, but man, you need to write clearly.

 

[vizier]

Bro, no offense, but I have to read your posts 3x each just to understand what you're saying....I don't know if you're using a translator or a dictation app, but man, you need to write clearly.

Ok which part bro you can always ask. I will work on my style and take this into consideration.

 

[ToddE]

There could be something not in the media taken from Russia or China(possible tech transfer of shaheed from Iran as in no time a Chinese version was made) in return of some tech transfer nature. In that case shaheed136 copying by Usa etc others and installing the copy drones against Iran should have been thought and a calculated move by Iran. Nothing other than tech transfer of some high value item to Iran would suffice with the knowledge that the drones will be copied against Iran later on.

If it was not a calculated move then there is a worse bug that needs to be fixed. Then there seems to be a lack of critical thinking and easily believing something with small data and emotions triggering with good manners whether made by supposedly ally Russia(questionable) or anyone else. Iran believed Usa easily as well when they triggered emotions of hope for a nuclear deal before the israeli attack. Believing easy needs to be fixed more questioning - critical thinking and emotional control needs to be put in place of that by the decision making officials in that case.

You can say it all in Turkish to me to get your point across. You are struggling in English which makes it harder to understand. Its fine, lots of us here are not English speakers by default.

 

[Kyussis]

You can say it all in Turkish to me to get your point across. You are struggling in English which makes it harder to understand. Its fine, lots of us here are not English speakers by default.

The only acceptable languages here are Farsi and English.

 

[vizier]

My point basicly was if the Hadid 110 drone can be converted to air to air role just like the karrar drone then it can be used to hunt down israeli drones entering your airspace.
It has low payload but it can still carry a manpad-lightweight missile. Enemy awacs wont be seeing your drones and you can hunt down the enemy drones at high altitude with it.

The other point was about tech transfer issue. Usa somehow managed to copy the drone. There can be some data leak from China or Russia after tech is transferred to Russia and China from Iran. Usa version flm-36 is almost the exact copy of shaheed drone. These are now installed against you by Usa. If the tech is very sensitive it should not be sold just like Usa does not sell F22s. If the tech is sensitive and can become a threat if copied by others then tech transfer should not be made. It doesnt matter China or Russia is considered as an ally by Iran. These are strategical decisions that should be made carefully.

 

[ToddE]

My point basically was if the Hadid 110 drone can be converted to air to air role just like the karrar drone then it can be used to hunt down israeli drones entering your airspace.
It has low payload but it can still carry a manpad-lightweight missile. Enemy awacs wont be seeing your drones and you can hunt down the enemy drones at high altitude with it.

Karrar is faster and is already armed with Azarakhsh, has datalinks as well for search and tracking cue. Also Shahed-238 exists with similar characteristics to this Hadid-110, Russians are using it with R-60 WVR missile now.

AWACS does not matter here because IAF is not invading Iranian Airspace, they come to Iraqi airspace for launching missiles into Iran.

The other point was about tech transfer issue. Usa somehow managed to copy the drone. There can be some data leak from China or Russia after tech is transferred to Russia and China from Iran. Usa version flm-36 is almost the exact copy of shaheed drone. These are now installed against you by Usa. If the tech is very sensitive it should not be sold just like Usa does not sell F22s. If the tech is sensitive and can become a threat if copied by others then tech transfer should not be made. It doesnt matter China or Russia is considered as an ally by Iran. These are strategical decisions that should be made carefully.

Its easy to copy because of simplicity of design. Also its being mass used in wars all over the globe now anybody can see what technologies are being used on it. Even in the more upgraded forms. Iran was the innovator, rest copied it and moved on with their own production lines. But thats how tech world works. If you introduce a design and its successful, everybody will come up with their own version very soon.

 

[vizier]

Karrar is faster and is already armed with Azarakhsh, has datalinks as well for search and tracking cue. Also Shahed-238 exists with similar characteristics to this Hadid-110, Russians are using it with R-60 WVR missile now.

AWACS does not matter here because IAF is not invading Iranian Airspace, they come to Iraqi airspace for launching missiles into Iran.

Shahed - 238 is a lowered rcs improvement on Shahed 136. Geran 3 Russian version is still detected by improved radars given to Ukraine and shot down. But from longer ranges and higher altitude in a2a mode shahed-238 can be used for hunting drones in your airspace I agree. Hadid-110 seems to be designed with stealth as primary concern. It has more survivability than Shahed 238. Karrar will be seen and shot down bvr while hunting drones by F35s flying close to Iranian border. F35s wont be seeing Hadid-110 though. The problem of Hadid-110 is lower payload it can carry a smaller manpad-missile but it is enough for taking down drones from wvr. Azaraksh is a large missile carried outside, enlarging the rcs of the karrar drone or Shahed 238. Stinger-Igla or your version of it can be carried inside the body or in a small box under the drone without raising rcs much if the missile add-on is designed accordingly. Trade off would be it would be short range and less reliable in higher altitude than azaraksh. Best option would be larger drone similar to loyal wingman and internal bays. However it is not available yet for Iran. Loyal wingman type of ucav is also overkill for taking down drones it works well against aircraft as well with bvr capabilities. It has its own trade offs though like it needs an airbase nearby but Shahed-238, Hadid-110 can be launched and recovered from anywhere.

Its easy to copy because of simplicity of design. Also its being mass used in wars all over the globe now anybody can see what technologies are being used on it. Even in the more upgraded forms. Iran was the innovator, rest copied it and moved on with their own production lines. But thats how tech world works. If you introduce a design and its successful, everybody will come up with their own version very soon.

Every country has versions of it now you are right. But Usa version Flm-36 is a direct exact copy of Shahed 136

LUCAS, Low-Cost Uncrewed Combat Attack System

A video released by russian state media shows just what the SpektreWorks FLM136 or LUCAS is up against. SpektreWorks was recently selected for the U.S. Army’s Applied Small UAS Prototype Inno…

www.suasnews.com

Somehow it happened just after China made an exact copy of Shahed-136. There can be a data-leak from China to Usa or from Russia to Usa.

China showed off how it fires Shahed-like drones from a truck-mounted multiple launch system

The clips, aired by state media, show a delta-wing ASN-301 rocketing forth from a truck launcher and climbing sharply before diving into its target.

www.businessinsider.com

My point was these countries may be against Usa in their policies but black and white thinking is unrealistic. There can be elements in their government in the same team with Usa. This should be kept in mind especially in sensitive tech-transfer and other security related decisions.

 

[Michael]

Every country has versions of it now you are right. But Usa version Flm-36 is a direct exact copy of Shahed 136
......
Somehow it happened just after China made an exact copy of Shahed-136. There can be a data-leak from China to Usa or from Russia to Usa.

The most significant contribution of the Shahed-136 UAV is that it provides a tactical concept: "providing long-range strike capabilities at the lowest possible production cost."

This is similar to the operational concept of small UAVs and FPV drones on the Russian-Ukrainian battlefield. They have taken this operational concept to the extreme. However, this does not represent their technological advancement.

From a purely technical perspective, it is not advanced. China, the United States, and Russia do not lack these technologies themselves. Russia's cooperation with Iran to introduce the technology and production of the Shahed-136 UAV is because Russia is currently at war, and the urgent needs of the war prevent them from quickly replicating the Shahed-136 UAV on their own.

China and the United States are not at war. They do not need any technology from Iran to quickly replicate the Shahed-136 UAV themselves. If Russia were not at war, they would be capable of replicating this without any support from Iran.

BTW.
China is primarily replicating the Shahed-136 UAV for the export market. The PLA only uses a small number of them for routine combat training. We have better weapons for this tactical purpose.

 

[vizier]

The most significant contribution of the Shahed-136 UAV is that it provides a tactical concept: "providing long-range strike capabilities at the lowest possible production cost."

This is similar to the operational concept of small UAVs and FPV drones on the Russian-Ukrainian battlefield. They have taken this operational concept to the extreme. However, this does not represent their technological advancement.

From a purely technical perspective, it is not advanced. China, the United States, and Russia do not lack these technologies themselves. Russia's cooperation with Iran to introduce the technology and production of the Shahed-136 UAV is because Russia is currently at war, and the urgent needs of the war prevent them from quickly replicating the Shahed-136 UAV on their own.

China and the United States are not at war. They do not need any technology from Iran to quickly replicate the Shahed-136 UAV themselves. If Russia were not at war, they would be capable of replicating this without any support from Iran.

BTW.
China is primarily replicating the Shahed-136 UAV for the export market. The PLA only uses a small number of them for routine combat training. We have better weapons for this tactical purpose.

That is one possible scenario. But the resemblence of Shahed 136 is evident unlike other countries strike drone versions. So it does not negate the possibility of Iran-China tech transfer or Iran-Russia-China tech transfer. The advantage is low cost production of them. Usa is not in war directly but israel is periodically fighting against Iran. They immediately needed a low cost strike option and copying Shahed 136 suits that purpose. Now Usa variants are rapidly getting installed in mideast bases. If there is a tech transfer from Iran and if there is a data-leak to Usa it needs to be investigated by respective countries. If tech transfer didnt take place from Iran-China or from Russia to China after Iran-Russia then it is something else. Officials of respective countries would know better in my opinion. Possibilities do and should effect decision making in tech-transfer and sensitive security issues. This was my basic point.

 

[Michael]

That is one possible scenario. But the resemblence of Shahed 136 is evident unlike other countries strike drone versions. So it does not negate the possibility of Iran-China tech transfer or Iran-Russia-China tech transfer. The advantage is low cost production of them. Usa is not in war directly but israel is periodically fighting against Iran. They immediately needed a low cost strike option and copying Shahed 136 suits that purpose. Now Usa variants are rapidly getting installed in mideast bases. If there is a tech transfer from Iran and if there is a data-leak to Usa it needs to be investigated by respective countries. If tech transfer didnt take place from Iran-China or from Russia to China after Iran-Russia then it is something else. Officials of respective countries would know better in my opinion. Possibilities do and should effect decision making in tech-transfer and sensitive security issues. This was my basic point.

We never deny the contribution of the "Shahed-136 UAV" to changing combat concepts. That's a fact. It's also true that China is indeed copying the Shahed-136 UAV. This is also a fact. ------ Iran has opened up a new way of thinking for the whole world.

But don't overstate its capabilities. From a purely technical standpoint, it's not advanced. Its real contribution lies in the extensive use of civilian technology to manufacture inexpensive UAVs.

In terms of production costs, you shouldn't try to compete with China in this area. China's PD-2900 UAV, a copy of the Shahed-136 UAV (please look up its performance data yourself), has a factory price of approximately 8000-12000 RMB (US$1100-1700). A single production line can produce up to 20,000 units per month.

 

[vizier]

We never deny the contribution of the "Shahed-136 UAV" to changing combat concepts. That's a fact. It's also true that China is indeed copying the Shahed-136 UAV. This is also a fact. ------ Iran has opened up a new way of thinking for the whole world.

But don't overstate its capabilities. From a purely technical standpoint, it's not advanced. Its real contribution lies in the extensive use of civilian technology to manufacture inexpensive UAVs.

In terms of production costs, you shouldn't try to compete with China in this area. China's PD-2900 UAV, a copy of the Shahed-136 UAV (please look up its performance data yourself), has a factory price of approximately 8000-12000 RMB (US$1100-1700). A single production line can produce up to 20,000 units per month.

I agree China has better versions now and production capability is immense. But the transfer of shahed 136 data to Usa will give both the low cost production capability and the flaws of the system to counter it when used by Iran without r&d development - time costs for Usa. If tech transfer happened from Iran to China about shahed 136 then data leaks to Usa should be investigated by Chinese officials. There can be some openings there. That was my point.

 

[Michael]

I agree China has better versions now and production capability is immense. But the transfer of shahed 136 data to Usa will give both the low cost production capability and the flaws of the system to counter it when used by Iran without r&d development - time costs for Usa. If tech transfer happened from Iran to China about shahed 136 then data leaks to Usa should be investigated by Chinese officials. There can be some openings there. That was my point.

Your argument is based on a false premise: "China leaked the production technology of the Shahed-136 UAV to the United States."

1. The United States doesn't need any external technology sources. They possess all the technology for the Shahed-136 UAV themselves. The Shahed-136 UAV has no technological secrets.

2. China and the US maintain strict security regarding military technology. Neither side would voluntarily transfer any military technology to the other.

From a purely technical perspective, the Shahed-136 UAV is not a high-tech product.

For the United States, low cost is their biggest problem. They might purchase certain components produced in China through the civilian market, but they would absolutely not engage in military technology transactions with China.

Again.

The Shahed-136 UAV is not a high-tech weapon. If I wanted to, I could easily purchase all the components from publicly available civilian e-commerce platforms and then assemble a product even better than the Shahed-136 UAV. The entire process would require absolutely no technical documentation.