Israel’s Genocide in Gaza | 2023- till present

[Dalit]

Its a pity the leaders of the arab and muslim world do not representt the wishes of the majority of their people otherwise for sure this genocide would never have got to this stage of relentless killing in the most savage ways. The leaders may turn a blind eye to this, we the people will never forget this.

At the very least the resourceful Arab nations could have united and put some meaningful economic pressure on the powers that are supporting Israel in their genocide. They didn't because they are not interested in the plight of Palestinians. This is the harsh truth.

The truth is that most Arab nations don't care about Palestine. Today students at various campuses around the world are making more noise than all Islamic nations combined. The Arab leaders only care about their worldly desires and above all maintaining good ties with Israel. The Arab nations have been exposed very badly. This cannot be concealed in any way.

 

[lightning f57]

At the very least the resourceful Arab nations could have united and put some meaningful economic pressure on the powers that are supporting Israel in their genocide. They didn't because they are not interested in the plight of Palestinians. This is the harsh truth.

The truth is that most Arab nations don't care about Palestine. Today students at various campuses around the world are making more noise than all Islamic nations combined. The Arab leaders only care about their worldly desires and above all maintaining good ties with Israel. The Arab nations have been exposed very badly. This cannot be concealed in any way.

Treachery always has blowback at some point, how it manifests itself later we will see.

 

[Dalit]

Treachery always has blowback at some point, how it manifests itself later we will see.

I believe the Arab nations will pay a hefty price. This farcical Abraham Accords will come to haunt them very badly. Israel is a state that wants to expand its borders beyond Palestine.

 

[VCheng]

@VCheng , even an American-born Jew raised in Miami, FLA and lived in Israel for a period is running for congress because she understands not only the plight of the Palestinians, but also that a 2-state solution is IMPOSSIBLE as many of us here understand as well and have been trying to convey to you. But for some reason you still seem to be holding out unrealistic hope that not only can it be achieved, but in record time as well which is even more bizarre considering what I know of you and your ability to rationalize things.

Between minute 3:26 - 3:37 (11 seconds) is all you need to hear, and she puts it as simply as can be. Is she mistaken also, like the rest of us?

I listened to her as you indicated.

Look at it this way: if a two state solution is regarded as impossible, what other solution is there that will allow both sides (NOTE: this is not a declaration of who is in the right or wrong, merely noting the status quo), each one millions strong and overzealously inflamed, to live side by side in peace? Each side cannot kill all of the other, and neither can each side remove each other or even wish the other one away. That much is indeed clear.

What she is referring to as impossible is the only solution possible. Her assessment is more an indication of just how much more difficult this solution is being made from a combination of hardening attitudes within each side, given present events, aided by outside forces trying to create the most adverse situation they possibly can, for their own geopolitical advantages.

I could go into more detail as to how to make possible the only solution possible, but there is simply no chance of doing that in this thread, or indeed even in this forum, given the environment that is actively encouraged here, to its own detriment.

 

[Unknowntruth]

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[Musings]

I listened to her as you indicated.

Look at it this way: if a two state solution is regarded as impossible, what other solution is there that will allow both sides (NOTE: this is not a declaration of who is in the right or wrong, merely noting the status quo), each one millions strong and overzealously inflamed, to live side by side in peace? Each side cannot kill all of the other, and neither can each side remove each other or even wish the other one away. That much is indeed clear.

What she is referring to as impossible is the only solution possible. Her assessment is more an indication of just how much more difficult this solution is being made from a combination of hardening attitudes within each side, given present events, aided by outside forces trying to create the most adverse situation they possibly can, for their own geopolitical advantages.

I could go into more detail as to how to make possible the only solution possible, but there is simply no chance of doing that in this thread, or indeed even in this forum, given the environment that is actively encouraged here, to its own detriment.

VC
With the level of bombardment in Gaza I have to say Netanyahu has no desire for a 2 state solution. They are ethnic cleansing and trying to remove every Palestinian in the region.
I saw a horrific video today of a Palestinian child burnt to death. Eyes still open staring into the camera. In peace - dead - looking straight at the camera. It takes a special sort of soldier to be sitting next to this corpse - smiling at the cameramen.
VC - do you see that this will leave a legacy of people burning inside looking for revenge.
Tough times ahead…..

 

[PakAl]

When I say this they call me anti-Arab. Muslims, Arabs etc. have all disappointed. The direct neighbours of Palestinians are a disgrace though. What a shameful bunch.

Muslims used to have one of the greatest civilisation in the world, compare us to those people, we have no unity, education, culture, values, progress. We are rock bottom and suffering. This is present reality. Our leadership is the same.

 

[Persian Gulf]

2 IDF terrorists liquidated and 2 more seriously wounded by Hamas in north Gaza

Two Israeli terrorists were killed during fighting in the northern Gaza Strip yesterday, the occupation military announces.

The slain terrorists are named as: Staff Sgt. Yair Avitan, 20, of the Paratroopers Brigade's 890th Battalion, from Ra'anana. Sgt. First Class (res.) Yakir Shmuel Tatelbaum, 21, of the 7th Armored Brigade's 77th Battalion, from Ma'ale Adumim.

The terrorists were killed in separate incidents.

Huge anti-government protests continue in "Israel"

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Palestinian resistance fighters continue to launch rockets into "Israel"

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[Persian Gulf]

Also, just because Hezbollah is close to Iran, doesn't mean it doesn't have its own calculations. Hezbollah has a long history with the Israeli occupation. They can hurt Israel for a month or two in a big way but after that it can become lopsided against Lebanon if there isn't assistance from third parties. Financially and militarily. Hezbollah understand there is no actual plan by Iran nor Arab and Islamic nations to fight a major and proper campaign against Israel. It would be Lebanon on its own and Israel has time on its side thanks to unending support by NATO and US.

That's part of the reason they didn't go in with Hamas. Basically what they can achieve is to distract attention away from Gaza at a big cost for Lebanon. And they don't think it's worth it. And they believe Lebanese people would be furious if that was the reason to go to war.

And I can't blame them. It makes sense. They like Hamas and need Hamas and vice versa. But there is a ceiling to what they can do if Arabs nor Iran actually take a initiative to resupply and economically support a war effort.

And it's unfortunate for Gaza but is the reality. That being said, we still don't know if Israel will attack Lebanon, regardless. And if things may spiral out of control in wider region for whatever reasons. But right now the calculations is a net loss if committing to full blown war effort against Israel, in the long run.

I agree with most of what you say here and in your prior post. I disagree with one thing: "It would be Lebanon on its own". Lebanon has not been on its own since its origins in the 1980s. IRGC commanders were on the ground fighting side by side with Hezbollah fighters then, in the 2000s, in 2006, and likely today. Massive exchange of technical information and assistance and arms exports from Iran to Lebanon (via Iraq and Syria) continue by land, sea, and air. A senior Hezbollah leader said that arms deliveries from Iran have increased by a factor of at least 6 since the Gaza-Israel war/genocide started.

Iran won't deploy a large number of troops to Lebanon (logistically this is not feasible, and would turn the Lebanese people against Hezbollah even further), but in no way would Hezbollah be on its own in such a war. Top cadre of IRGC commanders view Hezbollah as their kin/brothers and dozens have already become martyrs while fighting with/for Hezbollah. To be candid, the Iran-Hezbollah relationship is fundamentally different to the Iran-Hamas relationship. The former is ideological and totally aligned between family who have spent blood together, the latter is more a relationship of convenience for both sides.

 

[r3alist]

Also, just because Hezbollah is close to Iran, doesn't mean it doesn't have its own calculations. Hezbollah has a long history with the Israeli occupation. They can hurt Israel for a month or two in a big way but after that it can become lopsided against Lebanon if there isn't assistance from third parties. Financially and militarily. Hezbollah understand there is no actual plan by Iran nor Arab and Islamic nations to fight a major and proper campaign against Israel. It would be Lebanon on its own and Israel has time on its side thanks to unending support by NATO and US.

That's part of the reason they didn't go in with Hamas. Basically what they can achieve is to distract attention away from Gaza at a big cost for Lebanon. And they don't think it's worth it. And they believe Lebanese people would be furious if that was the reason to go to war.

And I can't blame them. It makes sense. They like Hamas and need Hamas and vice versa. But there is a ceiling to what they can do if Arabs nor Iran actually take a initiative to resupply and economically support a war effort.

And it's unfortunate for Gaza but is the reality. That being said, we still don't know if Israel will attack Lebanon, regardless. And if things may spiral out of control in wider region for whatever reasons. But right now the calculations is a net loss if committing to full blown war effort against Israel, in the long run.

Very good points, sober and rational.

How much fire power do these rockets have? How many would get through?

Can they damage serious military targets?

 

[r3alist]

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[925boy]

Just like normal Muslim citizens sell their souls for money and power, the leadership does the same. They will not sacrifice their power for Gaza or anywhere else. They too want to be allies with the big boys.

This is very well written, but also painful/hard to accept.

 

[Falcon29]

I agree with most of what you say here and in your prior post. I disagree with one thing: "It would be Lebanon on its own".

I meant something to compare to US/NATO backing of Israel. I'm aware Iran can and will provide support to them during such a war. But economically and militarily it can't match what US provides for Israel as US economy is way more powerful.

Lebanon has not been on its own since its origins in the 1980s. IRGC commanders were on the ground fighting side by side with Hezbollah fighters then, in the 2000s, in 2006, and likely today. Massive exchange of technical information and assistance and arms exports from Iran to Lebanon (via Iraq and Syria) continue by land, sea, and air. A senior Hezbollah leader said that arms deliveries from Iran have increased by a factor of at least 6 since the Gaza-Israel war/genocide started.

If the arms delivery bit is true, then that's impressive.

Iran won't deploy a large number of troops to Lebanon (logistically this is not feasible, and would turn the Lebanese people against Hezbollah even further), but in no way would Hezbollah be on its own in such a war. Top cadre of IRGC commanders view Hezbollah as their kin/brothers and dozens have already become martyrs while fighting with/for Hezbollah. To be candid, the Iran-Hezbollah relationship is fundamentally different to the Iran-Hamas relationship. The former is ideological and totally aligned between family who have spent blood together, the latter is more a relationship of convenience for both sides.

It is true they are ideologically aligned and that would mean a war on Lebanon that resembles the genocide in Gaza would probably trigger a larger intervention by Hezbollah's allies and Iran.

 

[Falcon29]

Nobody's able to get to this city the past two days. We don't know how many people were slaughtered or what's going on:

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[Falcon29]

Very good points, sober and rational.

How much fire power do these rockets have? How many would get through?

Can they damage serious military targets?

Most rockets don't have big firepower, but they are more precise and industrial grade compared to Gaza rockets. Meaning they won't fly off into fields so easily, like Gaza homemade rockets, and instead will fly towards their target. What this means is Israel's iron dome interceptors supply is most certainly going to be exhausted just by the quality of the rockets, not counting the sheer number, which will be a lot more.

They can damage military bases. But, much of what Israel has that is important is based underground. Or in unknown factories. But Hezbollah should be able to damage airports, military factories and bases.

If they a large number of unguided longer range rockets, like 40-50 thousand. This can cause large damage to city centers. And for first time we will see many rockets impacting in Tel Aviv with big explosive yields. I don't know how many they have. Israel will experience destruction by Hezbollah's arsenal forsure. Whereas Gaza cannot do that, even on October 7 despite firing 5,000 or so rockets, they don't have big impact. Which is why Gaza resorted to a specialized cross border military option.