Israel’s Genocide in Gaza | 2023- till present

[Alter_Ego]

@Alter_Ego @Meengla

Israel is a post-WW2/Holocaust European/American "guilt trip" that they created at a time when there were no remaining Western colonies in existence in the region outside of French occupied Algeria.

After supposedly murdering millions of European Jews, they wanted nothing to do with the post-WW2 problematic of compensation, combined with general century long dislike of Jews, so they preferred to get rid of the problem (Jews) and at the same time set up a permanently loyal and grateful pro-Western outpost in the region.

That and many powerful Jewish families and politicians long having dreamt and worked for the establishment of a Jewish state. This bankrolling also helped.

I don't know if Jews in the US were as powerful prior to 1948 in the US (I highly doubt it) but eventually the Jews in the US gained a stronghold in the US to ensure that Israel would always be under the US umbrella.

Defenseless Palestinians unfortunately became the victims. Could have been anyone in the region.

As I see it, Jews should have had a chunk of Germany and called it Israel. That would have made the most sense. Say for instance Bavaria.

This is my quick "superficial" understanding without having studied the topic in great detail from various angles and sources. Just based on my historical knowledge and common sense.

Encourage anyone to call me out if I am completely wrong here, I myself am curious to learn what the real "truth" is.

Its probably a combination.
Im unsure of how much guilt europeans really had for Holocaust in the immidiate years after WW2 or how much of it came later.

Israels existence is probably mostly a combination of two main factors that has overlapping interests:

- zionist movements wishes combined with their strong influence and power
- Anglo-US Geostrategical designs for ME (therefore also the wider world)

 

[Oldenwisdom...قول بزرگ]

Armed struggle was the only way and unless Syria's recent changes spring a surprise, the October 7, 2023 may well be the last chance to break out of the Israeli stranglehold but that has certainly been backstabbed at least for now.
You have yourself thrown doubts about 'non violent' protests and they are valid doubts. Look at the Quisling regime of Mahmood Abbas for the 'non violent' protests: His people's land is being stolen rapidly and he can't even leave Ramallah without the Israeli permission.

Unless zion burns the world to the ground... which I'm sure they'd want for their fantasy island in top of innocent blood and bones.

It is done! There is no going back. There is no... same old, same old!
Chosen are the outcasts!

 

[_Arabia_]

At a time of war you are advocating non-violent means. This is the time for the West Bank and the Palestinians and Bedouins' inside Israel to rise up to fight the Israelis with guns.

Are you even reading what people you quote are writing? Based on your comment I can have my doubts. I never criticized armed struggle (LOL). In fact just the opposite, I was urging Palestinian factions to unify under the banner of Hamas and if that is not possible under a new unified Palestinian banner and not like today where there is too much division within Palestinians themselves.

As for non-armed tactics, read again what I wrote in this regard. Both can be useful. There is a time for both.

lhi. As context, India had close ties with the PLO for years, Yasser Arafat was a much admired figure here, and a number of Palestinians were living/ studying in India.

We discussed a civil disobedience movement, based on non violent techniques to combat the Israeli regime which was militarily so much stronger. The idea was that these methods would neutralise Israel’s military advantage totally, force them to play on the Palestinian turf. Any inevitable brutality or violent state response would be portrayed internationally as evil, unjust, and sap Israeli credibility and morale. The portrayal of a military / violent butcher against a peaceful protestor is a powerful one.

. It would also over time destroy Israel’s international credibility, while being a sustainable long term strategy for the Palestinians.

Obviously there are many nuances to this, and it’s not perfect. You want to keep the non violent resistance going, and not end up like the PA today.

But we’ve already seen where violent resistance leads. Even if one prefers an alternate strategy, there is a need for a rethink, at the very least.

Good post.

 

[Alter_Ego]

My comparison with South Africa was more in relation to new drastic non-armed measures that have yet to be implemented. Widespread coordinated hunger strikes across Palestine, within Israel, Jordan, laying off work, massive peaceful "human shield" protests etc. could potentially have an effect. At least the West would not be able to spin the narrative (Palestinian = terrorists that want to genocide Jews etc. rhetoric.) as they have been doing from the very beginning.

I wouldnt work in Isnotreal.
They have no problem with finishing off ALL palestinians.

In SA and British Raj in South Asia, the ruling european class, including the soldiers, was only a tiny fraction of whole population..to put it mildly. Also the Soviet and the US wasnt helping the UK nor the Dutch Apartheid regime actively.

 

[_Arabia_]

I wouldnt work in Isnotreal.
They have no problem with finishing off ALL palestinians.

In SA and British Raj in South Asia, the ruling european class, including the soldiers, was only a tiny fraction of whole population..to put it mildly. Also the Soviet and the US wasnt helping the UK nor the Dutch Apartheid regime actively.

You are right but times are different now. We live in a world were everyone can have access to events across the entire world within seconds. Look at social media and the masses (actual American people). My impression, once again, is that most are not-pro Israel and what they are doing, rather the opposite. Hence why there was talk from some Jewish organizations in the US to ban TikTok and other social media because they could see where the tide was going.

My suggestions have not yet been tried in Palestine. It is worth a try at least and would hurt nobody and further highlight the injustices if Israelis reacted in a violent fashion.

Also, despite the ongoing genocide in Gaza, I disagree with your view that Israel has license to kill all Palestinians. If that was the case, why have they not killed all 8-10 million Palestinians in the West Bank, Gaza, within Israel or even extended that to neighboring Arab countries?

While Israel (due to the US/West backing) is many times stronger, even such adventures are not realistic.

 

[_Arabia_]

Its probably a combination.
Im unsure of how much guilt europeans really had for Holocaust in the immidiate years after WW2 or how much of it came later.

Israels existence is probably mostly a combination of two main factors that has overlapping interests:

- zionist movements wishes combined with their strong influence and power
- Anglo-US Geostrategical designs for ME (therefore also the wider world)

The thing is, where was this mythical Jewish power during WW2 and the Holocaust? Or for the past 2000 years when they were stateless and mostly lived under the mercy and rule of Arabs and others?

I don't think that the US, as today, was even remotely as dominated by Jews prior to 1948. Jews had marginal power in the US back then from what I know.

The main reason was the European guilt and removing the "Jewish question and problem" from Europe permanently.

Otherwise it would make the most sense to create an Israel in Germany.

From what I remember reading, Jews in the UK had more power prior to 1948 than Jews within the US.

Hence Israel actually being an British project originally that later, as the British Empire collapsed, was taken over by the US.

 

[Meengla]

They have no problem with finishing off ALL palestinians.

Correct. I don't know why anyone here thinks Israelis would allow anything to the Palestinians but an Apartheid state or outright expulsion through expansions and harassment.
Bringing Gandhi or Mandela into this discussion won't move the Israeli needle one bit. There is a fat, old Gandhi sitting in Ramallah, committed to 'non violence', and one is welcome to go see him snoring through the annihilation of his nation as the world watches passively. Israelis don't give a crap about their 'image' or ICC/ICJ or even the boycott movements as long as they can control a large chunk of global resources through America. And Israelis are probably rightly counting on the world moving on after a few years/decades while only the Muslim ordinary people and some history scholars would remember what happened between 1948 onward.

 

[tower9]

At a time of war you are advocating non-violent means. This is the time for the West Bank and the Palestinians and Bedouins' inside Israel to rise up to fight the Israelis with guns.

That will just lead to genocide unless others help them. Their Sunni Arab brothers are all helping Israel. The Shiites were the only ones helping but the Sunnis are now cheering israel on as they are being pushed back to Iran.

Seriously I just need to understand the logic here. Because look at Hamas’ actions and what is has led to. Doesn’t seem like more than three brain cells were working together.

 

[tower9]

Correct. I don't know why anyone here thinks Israelis would allow anything to the Palestinians but an Apartheid state or outright expulsion through expansions and harassment.
Bringing Gandhi or Mandela into this discussion won't move the Israeli needle one bit. There is a fat, old Gandhi sitting in Ramallah, committed to 'non violence', and one is welcome to go see him snoring through the annihilation of his nation as the world watches passively. Israelis don't give a crap about their 'image' or ICC/ICJ or even the boycott movements as long as they can control a large chunk of global resources through America. And Israelis are probably rightly counting on the world moving on after a few years/decades while only the Muslim ordinary people and some history scholars would remember what happened between 1948 onward.

Israel will expel the Palestinians. At this point, that is guaranteed.

 

[StormOfTruth]

The major operations carried out by the Palestinian resistance groups on Monday, December 9, are as follows:

Al-Qassam Brigades' operations:

• Engaged in fierce clashes with Israeli soldiers using automatic weapons near the Tubas city's Main Street, occupied West Bank.

Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades' operations:

• Targeted a gathering of Israeli soldiers inside the "Beka’ot" settlement east of the town of Tammoun in Tubas city, occupied West Bank, with an intense barrage of bullets.
• In coordination with the Martyr Abdulqader Al-Husseini Brigades, targeted a Namer military vehicle with a "Yasser 2" explosive device that hit it directly on "Aid Al-Bashiti" Street in the Al-Jeneina neighborhood east of Rafah city in the southern Gaza Strip.
• Seized control of an Israeli military drone while it was carrying out intelligence missions in the skies of the central region in the middle of the Gaza Strip.
• Targeted a gathering of Israeli soldiers stationed around the Jabalia Services Club in the northern Gaza Strip with regular 60mm mortar shells.
• Engaged in fierce clashes with Israeli forces storming the Tubas city, occupied West Bank, using machine guns.
• Confronted Israeli forces storming Balata Camp and the eastern region of Nablus, occupied West Bank, and engaged in fierce clashes with them using machine guns and explosive devices.

Al-Quds Brigades' operations:

• Seized control of an Israeli military suicide drone in the skies of Khan Younis, southern Gaza Strip, before it was to carry out one of its offensive missions.

Mujahideen Brigades' operations:

• Targeted a base of Israeli intelligence officers in the so-called "Netzarim" axis with 60mm mortar shells.

Martyr Abu Ali Mustafa Brigades' operations:

• Targeted the Israeli military's "Howitzer" artillery positions on the "Netzarim" front south of Gaza City with heavy-caliber mortar shells.

 

[StrategicBear]

I think you misunderstood my viewpoint.

No one here asks KSA and Egypt to go to war against the US directly.

As for fighting and winning against USA in a similar type proxy war: Korean War, which in a dirt poor under-equipped China fought and won against the vastly superior USA+all of its allies.

Middle Easts nations problem have more to do with the region being divided into petty kingdoms. Which is what Europe basically was after the fall of Western half of Roman Empire.

Naturally every ruler will want to secure his/hers position and expand on it too.

China was lucky enough to have a leader like Mao, coming at the right place at a right time. Timing is equally cruicial. You can have a good leader but at bad timing (geostrategically).

To be fair, Korean War was not China fighting alone... They had NK allies as infantry support, and Soviets providing Air Force support.

So it was literally 3 nations VS US+UN forces, not CHN alone...

 

[Alter_Ego]

That will just lead to genocide unless others help them. Their Sunni Arab brothers are all helping Israel. The Shiites were the only ones helping but the Sunnis are now cheering israel on as they are being pushed back to Iran.

Seriously I just need to understand the logic here. Because look at Hamas’ actions and what is has led to. Doesn’t seem like more than three brain cells were working together.

You are not the only one whos confused here.

Arabs are afraid of Iranians being the overlord. But have no problem with Zionist arab-hating jews being the overlord who just murdered 200 000 of their own people.

 

[tower9]

You are not the only one whos confused here.

Arabs are afraid of Iranians being the overlord. But have no problem with Zionist arab-hating jews being the overlord who just murdered 200 000 of their own people.

That's why I don't care about what happens there anymore.

I used to think China should go in and help the Palestinians. I no longer support that. The Sunni Arabs sabotage themselves all the time, then they make up lies about you as they backstab you in the back. I've seen a lot of Palestinians cheer on the Syrian rebels and it's like they can't see two steps ahead and are now shocked that Israel has seized Syrian land and is now demolishing the rest of the country including assassinating all of Syria's scientists, intelligentsia and bombing all of its infrastructure. They will be more shocked when Israel completely genocides Gaza and then turns on the West Bank.

You can't help retarded people, which is what Sunni Arabs are. China should just leave them alone and focus on it's own development. The fact that Al Jazeera is very anti-China and is a promoter of NED/CIA talking points about China already gives you a clue of how China would be backstabbed if it ever intervened on behalf of the Palestinians. No thanks.

China should do business with all sides and keep it that way.

 

[UKBengali]

You can't help retarded people, which is what Sunni Arabs are.

That was a bit harsh but how can any Palestinian support what has happened in Syria is beyond me?

Flabbergasted is not too strong a word.

 

[tower9]

That was a bit harsh but how can any Palestinian support what has happened in Syria is beyond me?

Flabbergasted is not too strong a word.

I can't wrap my mind around it. They can't see two steps ahead of themselves. Which explains the situation they are in.

Kevork Almassian, a Syrian Armenian, touches on how Al Jazeera shapes public opinion in the Sunni world by feigning support for the Palestinians, yet demonizes any country or power that can actually do anything meaningful to help their situation. I have noticed that Al Jazeera is a major amplifier of anti-China news as well and basically follows the NED/CIA narratives about China. This tells me all I need to know about whether China should ever step in to help the Palestinians, clue, HELL NO.

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