JF-17 PFX program

I remeber JamD and Bilal Khan saying that B1's can not be ubgraded to B3 level due to different design in airframe
I also rember hearing the same thing. Perhaps it would require a more extensive rebuild, and at that point building a new air frame might be required due to cost. If so, I might be necessary to have 10 full strength squadrons (180 planes) of Block 3+ JF-17s in the fleet.
 
Who says Pakistan can just jump into building a 5th generation fighter jet? Our economy is fragile and still relying on IMF loans, burdened by soaring debt, with a weakening rupee and foreign reserves barely enough to cover imports. JF-17 still depends on imported engines, avionics, and electronics that means dollars we simply don’t have.

Consider the costs, even the wealthiest nations pour hundreds of billions into their 5th gen programs. For Pakistan, investing that much would devastate the economy and divert essential resources away from critical areas like jobs, healthcare, and education, which are already under severe strain.

Of course, a strong air force is vital, but the practical approach is to modernize existing assets, invest in affordable drones, missiles, and leverage partnerships for technology. Fantasizing about a large stealth fleet while the economy struggles is not a plan, it’s wishful thinking.

I didn’t post the actual data about economy because I don’t want to embarrass you.

Regarding Pakistan’s partnership with Saudi Arabia, It’s a double edged sword. On the surface, it looks like Riyadh is worried about defense, but in reality this could drag Pakistan into conflicts we don’t need. Time will tell if it’s a smart strategic move or just a trap.

And for those thinking Saudis will send ships full of gold or dollars, to Pakistan, wake up. That’s daydreaming. Saudis are not stupid; they won’t invest a single dollar in Pakistan unless it guarantees them clear benefits.

Pakistan's economy is doing much better. In 2028, we'll rebalance our economy with our GDP to move significantly higher up as well as the defense budget. Our true defense budget needs to be around $ 20 billion but it will get there in phases per economic movement upwards.

But I think we'd be at $ 12-15 billion. Secondly, you don't read the post in details. No one expects the "Saudi ships of gold". But the reality is, we do have a strategic agreement. Everyone knows it's our military and their finances initially. As Pakistan's economy grows, our financial burden will increase also.

What's the goal of doing this strategic pact if you'll build an international force depending on foreign weapons? So tomorrow, China or US puts restrictions on us and the entire force goes "bye bye"? The main reason for this defense pact is 1: to establish a local supply chain of weapons and 2: establish a unified military to provide protection to both Pakistan and Saudia.

These programs don't start in a day. We'll start now and some MOU will be signed in a few months and then after due diligence, a future capability build contract might be signed in a year. JF-17 is old news. You need to get that into your head. Outside of upgrading these all to block III standards, there is no further need for these. The PAF is also looking at 5th gen capability. I even heard they've started to analyze 6th gen drone options also for study purposes. So our sharp brains are going in the right direction.
 
This kind of fantasy stopped us for joining the 5th generation Turkish KAAN project as full partner. Pakistan does not have industrial infrastructure and technology to build even a fourth generation fighter from scratch. The fantasy 5th generation AZM project is dead on arrival. At least manufacture each and every component of the future JF-17 Block 4 in Pakistan first.

It's a fantasy to produce a 5th gen or any gen jet? KAAN and this situation has nothing to do with each other. KAAN doesn't have a manufacturing line yet. It's prototypes are being designed by engineers with much less machine work compared to how assembly lines work. Because these are prototypes, they can't configure large scale assembly lines just yet. And Pakistan didn't have the cash sitting available. But that's changing in a coupe of years when the economy gets re-balanced in 2028.

Now the PAF does want a 5th gen and has been looking into 6th gen CCA's to study them. Meaning interest. We have financial backing now. KAAN and a Chinese 5th gen TOT project are two very different things. Turkey's economy isn't like China's. It can't do things like China can do with us from a financial perspective.

Lastly, if the Pakistan does get a Chinese platform, a robust manufacturing base will be a preliminary step. We now have excellent knowledge on that entire process due to JF-17 program. With proper investments, what we can't do here due to lack of financials that would buy super expensive tech, will be purchased this time for eventually targeting full local production.
 
Block III+ Is basically the capabilities within the J-10C, but to push the plane to its limits; a liquid cooled GaN of 1000+ T/R modules on a swashplate. An IRST, an internal AESA jammer, a towed decoy, an upgraded datalink, RAM coating, an APU and OBOGS to allow more remote operations in dispersal to motorway operations, and retractable IFR probe to improve RCS signature.
sorry but this is all fantasy la la land.
 
Block III+ Is basically the capabilities within the J-10C, but to push the plane to its limits; a liquid cooled GaN of 1000+ T/R modules on a swashplate. An IRST, an internal AESA jammer, a towed decoy, an upgraded datalink, RAM coating, an APU and OBOGS to allow more remote operations in dispersal to motorway operations, and retractable IFR probe to improve RCS signature.
... But it is a small plane
All that a la carte require a more powerful engine at least 10% better in specs and more fuel capacity.
More fuel means larger wet wings...so a different design.
One option, chuck the gun+ammo, that may give 600-900 lbs.
So a conventional pfx/thunder b4 is indispensable.

You can't make VW Golf to carry 8 passengers.
 
Pakistan's economy is doing much better. In 2028, we'll rebalance our economy with our GDP to move significantly higher up as well as the defense budget. Our true defense budget needs to be around $ 20 billion but it will get there in phases per economic movement upwards.

But I think we'd be at $ 12-15 billion. Secondly, you don't read the post in details. No one expects the "Saudi ships of gold". But the reality is, we do have a strategic agreement. Everyone knows it's our military and their finances initially. As Pakistan's economy grows, our financial burden will increase also.

What's the goal of doing this strategic pact if you'll build an international force depending on foreign weapons? So tomorrow, China or US puts restrictions on us and the entire force goes "bye bye"? The main reason for this defense pact is 1: to establish a local supply chain of weapons and 2: establish a unified military to provide protection to both Pakistan and Saudia.

These programs don't start in a day. We'll start now and some MOU will be signed in a few months and then after due diligence, a future capability build contract might be signed in a year. JF-17 is old news. You need to get that into your head. Outside of upgrading these all to block III standards, there is no further need for these. The PAF is also looking at 5th gen capability. I even heard they've started to analyze 6th gen drone options also for study purposes. So our sharp brains are going in the right direction.
Pakistan is just a bargaining chip
If anything was serious we woul have seen some more close collaboration or deployment of troops
 
Absolutely. We need to build back the entire defense industry to catch up to our potential adversaries.
If an ordinary Pakistani military fan were to make such remarks, it would be perfectly normal. However, as a "Think Tank: Consultant," such remarks are inappropriate and will only damage your credibility.

Pakistan lacks the capacity to build "the entire defense industry." Even if Saudi Arabia's funding were multiplied tenfold and given to Pakistan, the situation would remain the same.

Pakistan lacks the desire to build "the entire defense industry." Even some Pakistani members of the PDF who dream of such a goal are unwilling to put in the slightest effort toward this "dream."

If anyone attempts to refute or criticize this view, please first understand what "the entire defense industry" means.
Chinese people often say: "Anything that can be solved with money is not a problem." ------ The real problems in this world have nothing to do with money.

Pakistan's adversaries have exactly the same capabilities as Pakistan in this regard. The two countries are evenly matched.
a more robust domestic industry ensures quicker turn around and staying within budget.
This is an even more unrealistic dream.
 
Well we have not really seen the full details of the Defence Pact
If any Joint development program will commence

Programs that can see benefit from the Defence Pact

  • PFX - Program , Produce 150 Units , for both air-force
  • Jinnah Class Frigate
  • Gunship Helicopter Z10
  • Satellite Tech
 
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they didnt- there is no RD93MA, development was never finished, kiterally just engagement farming.
Isn't the image of Block-III specs at RIATS an indication ?

1759325020266.png

This is the increased thrust provided by RD-93MA.
 

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Isn't the image of Block-III specs at RIATS an indication ?

View attachment 150663

This is the increased thrust provided by RD-93MA.
i literally spoke to the person who inaugurated and also ran the entire RD-93 MRO program at pac. It is RD93, not MA, not WS-13.

These are likely taken from wikipedia lol because PAC's official datasheet uses a different thrust figure.
 
i literally spoke to the person who inaugurated and also ran the entire RD-93 MRO program at pac. It is RD93, not MA, not WS-13.

These are likely taken from wikipedia lol because PAC's official datasheet uses a different thrust figure.
That specs poster was from RIATS competition, which is quite official.
 
That specs poster was from RIATS competition, which is quite official.
Don't count on even 'official' PAC marketing material for accurate information. The best sources are the PAF officers running PAC, and when you speak to them, here's what we know: only 30 JF-17Cs were on order by PAF, actual numbers of Azeri orders not disclosed, RD-93 is being used, not RD-93MA, and enthusiasm in the Thunder is on the down, not up.

Ultimately, AHQ never saw the JF-17 as anything more than an A-5 and F-7P replacement. That is it. If AHQ had a bit more faith in China's industry in the early 1990s, they would've tried buying a share in the J-10 program rather than asking CAC to design a simpler, cheaper design in Super-7. But now that we DO have that faith, we're willing to get J-35AE minus any real operational maturity (a massive and arguably unwise leap).

The fact that the PAF couldn't even trust the JF-17B to be a LIFT speaks volumes about how AHQ views this fighter. They're looking for an exit ramp and it's obvious for everyone to see if they look past the X accounts.
 
That specs poster was from RIATS competition, which is quite official.
the poster is not made by PAC.

The PAC official datasheet for its customers is. The people working on the aircraft know also.
 
That specs poster was from RIATS competition, which is quite official.
1759328324995.png


I took this photo at Dubai airshow in 2021.

Read the JF-17B3 specifications.

The JF-17 has a length of 7ft.

dont forget the bifurcated intake for optional engine performance!!!

being at riat/etc has no weight behind it, we're globally retarded.
 
Ultimately, AHQ never saw the JF-17 as anything more than an A-5 and F-7P replacement. That is it. If AHQ had a bit more faith in China's industry in the early 1990s, they would've tried buying a share in the J-10 program rather than asking CAC to design a simpler, cheaper design in Super-7. But now that we DO have that faith, we're willing to get J-35AE minus any real operational maturity (a massive and arguably unwise leap).
To me, it seems like a case of not having a choice instead of having faith in the Chinese, if by some miracle F-16's become available to PAF, they will get them without hesitation.
 

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