JF-17 PFX program

[StormOfTruth]

Anyone know the reason why Indian Websites are claiming that the JF17 Block 4 (most probably referring to the PFX) will have Internal Weapons Bay?!!

https://idrw.org/comparing-the-evolutionary-paths-jf-17-block-4-vs-tejas-mkii/

https://defence.in/threads/pakistan...dias-tejas-mk2-refines-existing-design.12155/

 

[kambhakt]

Anyone know the reason why Indian Websites are claiming that the JF17 Block 4 (most probably referring to the PFX) will have Internal Weapons Bay?!!

https://idrw.org/comparing-the-evolutionary-paths-jf-17-block-4-vs-tejas-mkii/

https://defence.in/threads/pakistan...dias-tejas-mk2-refines-existing-design.12155/

You should avoid IDRW.

 

[Deino]

Anyone know the reason why Indian Websites are claiming that the JF17 Block 4 (most probably referring to the PFX) will have Internal Weapons Bay?!!

https://idrw.org/comparing-the-evolutionary-paths-jf-17-block-4-vs-tejas-mkii/

https://defence.in/threads/pakistan...dias-tejas-mk2-refines-existing-design.12155/

Simply since IDRW is a pierce of shit

 

[Zarvan]

Anyone know the reason why Indian Websites are claiming that the JF17 Block 4 (most probably referring to the PFX) will have Internal Weapons Bay?!!

https://idrw.org/comparing-the-evolutionary-paths-jf-17-block-4-vs-tejas-mkii/

https://defence.in/threads/pakistan...dias-tejas-mk2-refines-existing-design.12155/

Because of this slide which was there in the presentation or let say was part of the video which was being played over and overy again at IDEAS 2024 about PFX program. In PFX program we have to fighter jets, one would be something like Grippen E which is being called PFX Alpha for now. Then, it would be a single engine 5th Generation Fighter jet. I took this screenshot from the video below.

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[Deino]

View attachment 94794
Because of this slide which was there in the presentation or let say was part of the video which was being played over and overy again at IDEAS 2024 about PFX program. In PFX program we have to fighter jets, one would be something like Grippen E which is being called PFX Alpha for now. Then, it would be a single engine 5th Generation Fighter jet. I took this screenshot from the video below.

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You still don‘t get it? Any such video using old faked and long debunked as fan-art but still claimed as a „single engined stealth fighter“ can be rated as plain BS and even more so anyone who is spreading this nonsense as real, can be no longer rated as credible!

You are so much obsessed by this idea Pakistan could develop such a type alone and field it in parallel to the J-35 and Kaan… it is just ridicolous!

 

[Zarvan]

You still don‘t get it? Any such video using old faked and long debunked as fan-art but still claimed as a „single engined stealth fighter“ can be rated as plain BS and even more so anyone who is spreading this nonsense as real, can be no longer rated as credible!

You are so much obsessed by this idea Pakistan could develop such a type alone and field it in parallel to the J-35 and Kaan… it is just ridicolous!

Sir why are you so determined to be proven so wrong!!!! The slide of which I took screenshot was was not made by the youtuber whose video I have shared but this slide was part of the video which was being played by Air Force I mean Pakistan Air Force at IDEAS 2024 on PFX stall. That video kept playing for three days on the screen which was telling about PFX. This guy and few others just bothered to pay attention. @MastanKhan

 

[Oscar]

You still don‘t get it? Any such video using old faked and long debunked as fan-art but still claimed as a „single engined stealth fighter“ can be rated as plain BS and even more so anyone who is spreading this nonsense as real, can be no longer rated as credible!

You are so much obsessed by this idea Pakistan could develop such a type alone and field it in parallel to the J-35 and Kaan… it is just ridicolous!

Sir why are you so determined to be proven so wrong!!!! The slide of which I took screenshot was was not made by the youtuber whose video I have shared but this slide was part of the video which was being played by Air Force I mean Pakistan Air Force at IDEAS 2024 on PFX stall. That video kept playing for three days on the screen which was telling about PFX. This guy and few others just bothered to pay attention. @MastanKhan

There is incorrect assertions in both posts -
That is an official slide but I take that slide’s future claims with tablespoon of salt.

Pakistan will likely achieve only the slated Alpha stage and then hold off until it sees where Tejas Mk.2 is.

Then if it needs it can(based on recent developments) “partner(read mostly outsourced)” design work on a further reduced RCS Version but it wont be “LO” in tje traditional sense.

However, that may be enough - keep in mind the current JF-17 in a 2+2 configuration and centerline tank is fairly difficult to spot and track for the APG-68 on the F-16s until it’s already in SD-10 range.

While that is now an outdated radar - it does still translate to how small the RCS of the aircraft is in its current form - a lot of the frontal radiation coming from it’s pylons and refueling probe

 

[Deino]

Again … I don‘t question that this image is shown just recently, but it does not show it has to be correct, it only means the one who made it does not care about the fact that exactly the same artwork is shown since years in several CGs or whatever since years all based on one single scale model that was initially thought to be a true project but in the end explained by the model-maker himself as just a fan-made what-if model with NO connection to PAC!

I really don‘t know why you think a faked image from long again shown now has to be any meaning of being real and that‘s my posi, You are obsessed with this idea so much that you always try to find any explanation to excuse it but not to think logically and accept fake is fake and remains fake.

And finally, why calling your buddy’s MK has no interest in facts, is known since years to spread any BS and lie as long as it fits his agenda to make Pakistan look great (what no-one questions) and to insult me or contradict my claims, regardless how proven they are. He simply has no intention to be honest, so just leave him out, he won‘t help in any way.

 

[SiliconBit (silicon0000)]

I don't think the PFX will be a stealth jet. It will likely be in the league of the Rafale or other modern 4.5th-generation jets in terms of stealth. However, this is just my speculation and not based on any credible source.

 

[Oscar]

Again … I don‘t question that this image is shown just recently, but it does not show it has to be correct, it only means the one who made it does not care about the fact that exactly the same artwork is shown since years in several CGs or whatever since years all based on one single scale model that was initially thought to be a true project but in the end explained by the model-maker himself as just a fan-made what-if model with NO connection to PAC!

I really don‘t know why you think a faked image from long again shown now has to be any meaning of being real and that‘s my posi, You are obsessed with this idea so much that you always try to find any explanation to excuse it but not to think logically and accept fake is fake and remains fake.

And finally, why calling your buddy’s MK has no interest in facts, is known since years to spread any BS and lie as long as it fits his agenda to make Pakistan look great (what no-one questions) and to insult me or contradict my claims, regardless how proven they are. He simply has no intention to be honest, so just leave him out, he won‘t help in any way.

I think you’re referring to a different image and he is to another.
There is an “official” presentation from IDEAS outlining the roadmap for JF-17 and then the old debunked CGIs

BUT here is the kicker - it is also likely (because I have not reviewed it recently) that “official” sources due to their own ineptitude simply chose to use some fan art as representation because they were asked to bring something for show and tell.

You’re assuming competency or at the least honesty where I am repeatedly highlighting a culture of “fake it till you make it” which could even mean a responsible party asking an intern to make the presentation and the intern using CGI and the responsible party presenting it even when their actual work has nothing to do with the image and likely is well behind even concepts of what the CGI represents.

 

[Faceless]

Pakistan will likely achieve only the slated Alpha stage and then hold off until it sees where Tejas Mk.2 is.

Then if it needs it can(based on recent developments) “partner(read mostly outsourced)” design work on a further reduced RCS Version but it wont be “LO” in tje traditional sense.

why would the said partner be interested in this outsourcing when it has a perfectly fine J 10 that it can pitch
why would it willingly create a competitor

 

[Oscar]

why would the said partner be interested in this outsourcing when it has a perfectly fine J 10 that it can pitch

It may not be this partner - nor would it necessarily need to be some official entity but hired freelancers.

However, to achieve what is necessary for maintaining balance may not require anything more than consultation and equipment purchase.

What is necessary may not need to be that fancy CGI but gradual changes and more indigenous content. The immense challenges there lie in actually getting the overall ecosystem ready to support such a venture.

So far it’s been presentations leading to expo centers with coworking spaces leased out to various software houses selling non-defense related items all over the world with perhaps even 10% of the actual investment going into R&D related to aviation projects.

So it is very likely that in the end the J-10s are bought in larger numbers or their production line is just shipped here while China pivots to heavier requirements or 5th and 6th gen systems.

To give you an idea of the state of military projects Ill narrate to you a horse’s mouth account of a Defense Housing Authority project to upgrade a small shopping area. Perhaps no larger than 500m x 500m across.

Budget allocated to the project ~ 100 Crore
Actual spent on work in project ~ 8 Crore

While Im not suggesting NASTP or PFX for that matter are at such lengths of criminal activity - there is an aspect of systemic and cultural proclivity to such “inefficiency”.

 

[Zarvan]

There is incorrect assertions in both posts -
That is an official slide but I take that slide’s future claims with tablespoon of salt.

Pakistan will likely achieve only the slated Alpha stage and then hold off until it sees where Tejas Mk.2 is.

Then if it needs it can(based on recent developments) “partner(read mostly outsourced)” design work on a further reduced RCS Version but it wont be “LO” in tje traditional sense.

However, that may be enough - keep in mind the current JF-17 in a 2+2 configuration and centerline tank is fairly difficult to spot and track for the APG-68 on the F-16s until it’s already in SD-10 range.

While that is now an outdated radar - it does still translate to how small the RCS of the aircraft is in its current form - a lot of the frontal radiation coming from it’s pylons and refueling probe

PFX Alpha is supposed to be something similar to Grippen E. Basically a jet with 10 hard points, more powerful engine which would help put lot of dual racks on those hard points, more powerful AESA radar, better avionics and other stuff, basically by all means a very heavily upgraded BLOCK 4. Than we would initiate a single engine stealth fighter jet program. Turkey will provide technological help and Arabs will finance it.

 

[Quwa]

IMO...

The PAF should call it a day and commit to 150 J-35s by 2040.

Forget PFX.

Just set a clear cut long-term requirement as-is, and focus the other resources on the economy and driving foreign currency gains to finance platform purchases.

Except for munitions, IMO, the indigenous production of air platforms is needless. It'd be best to leverage the limited resources to get good at AAM, SAM, SOW, ALCM, etc production. Set up parallel production lines, is indigenize more inputs, and be at a level where you can sustain a war effort.

If you have a strong economy, someone will sell you what you need re: platforms. An Indo-Pak War wouldn't last more than a few weeks, so the idea of having domestic fighter production makes no sense. Best case, you'll make 1 jet in war, and worst case, they'll destroy our assembly plant.

The platforms you get are in peacetime; in wartime, munitions and having as many available launch platforms as possible matters more (read: leverage UCAV).

So, if there needs to be an indigenous air platform, then make it a 2-3-ton UCAV. A comparatively simpler LO design (versus an NGFA) with a goal of having multiple final assembly lines so that we can roll a dozen a week at full capacity.

Those UCAVs are going to play a bigger role as strike assets (especially in high risk engagements) in a war, and being able to replace lost units rapidly would be key.

This is closer to what our industry can reach or realistically aspire to. We can even export them at a potentially good margin too.

 

[Zarvan]

IMO...

The PAF should call it a day and commit to 150 J-35s by 2040.

Forget PFX.

Just set a clear cut long-term requirement as-is, and focus the other resources on the economy and driving foreign currency gains to finance platform purchases.

Except for munitions, IMO, the indigenous production of air platforms is needless. It'd be best to leverage the limited resources to get good at AAM, SAM, SOW, ALCM, etc production. Set up parallel production lines, is indigenize more inputs, and be at a level where you can sustain a war effort.

If you have a strong economy, someone will sell you what you need re: platforms. An Indo-Pak War wouldn't last more than a few weeks, so the idea of having domestic fighter production makes no sense. Best case, you'll make 1 jet in war, and worst case, they'll destroy our assembly plant.

The platforms you get are in peacetime; in wartime, munitions and having as many available launch platforms as possible matters more (read: leverage UCAV).

So, if there needs to be an indigenous air platform, then make it a 2-3-ton UCAV. A comparatively simpler LO design (versus an NGFA) with a goal of having multiple final assembly lines so that we can roll a dozen a week at full capacity.

Those UCAVs are going to play a bigger role as strike assets (especially in high risk engagements) in a war, and being able to replace lost units rapidly would be key.

This is closer to what our industry can reach or realistically aspire to. We can even export them at a potentially good margin too.

Sorry they can't call it a day and yes J-35 number will not be less than 100 I mean final number not first order. In fact could be close to 150. But a single engine stealth fighter jet is needed for PAF. Only question is money to spend on such a project but if Arabs are willing to come on board and Turkey will help than we are going for it and we should.