JF-17 PFX program

Wait until 2028! People like you and many others don't like anything about Pakistan. We know that.

What we know is that Pakistan has not designed, built or delivered a single prop trainer, AJT, IJT trainer or a front line military jet that "it has" tested, debugged and certified for operational use.

The premise that Pakistan can ignore not having done any of the preliminary steps of creating an engineering aviation ecosystem of trained engineers with practical experience of completed aircraft aviation projects, and infrastructure for development testing for a jet platform, but some how magically can develop a 5th gen platform is beyond absurd.

The premise of a new 5th Gen platform called PFX is absurd and the results will not even be as good as Tejas if Pakistan is lucky !!!

I want Pakistan to be successful in developing an aviation industry and that generate designs within Pakistan and complete the entire development process that takes a product towards operational use. Pakistan can only achieve this through a carefully managed programme of work on incrementally building an ecosystem that will support that effort through building something like Hurjet, and Hurkus equivalents before attempting a front line fighter jet. I have no time for the "gung-ho yeehaw" types who think something that such a complex undertaking can be done successfully simply because some military bloke has "issued an order to make it so ..".
 
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What we know is that Pakistan has not designed, built or delivered a single prop trainer, AJT, IJT trainer or a front line military jet that "it has" tested, debugged and certified for operational use.

The premise that Pakistan can ignore not having done any of the preliminary steps of creating an engineering aviation ecosystem of trained engineers with practical experience of completed aircraft aviation projects, and infrastructure for development testing for a jet platform, but some how magically can develop a 5th gen platform is beyond absurd.

The premise of a new 5th Gen platform called PFX is absurd and the results will not even be as good as Tejas if Pakistan is lucky !!!
pfx is a 4.5++ Gen. jet not 5th Gen....Turkiye also hadn't designed a single jet before KAAN and Hurjet but they are successful so we can be successful too...we are seeking assistance from Chinese friends in this projects.
 
What we know is that Pakistan has not designed, built or delivered a single prop trainer, AJT, IJT trainer or a front line military jet that "it has" tested, debugged and certified for operational use.

The premise that Pakistan can ignore not having done any of the preliminary steps of creating an engineering aviation ecosystem of trained engineers with practical experience of completed aircraft aviation projects, and infrastructure for development testing for a jet platform, but some how magically can develop a 5th gen platform is beyond absurd.

The premise of a new 5th Gen platform called PFX is absurd and the results will not even be as good as Tejas if Pakistan is lucky !!!

Who is "we" you referred to? People like you who don't want to accept reality? Wait until 2028 and you and your "imaginary friends" you referred to as "we" will be put to shame.

We aren't India to re-invent the wheel from scratch. Even the F-35 is built from tech and parts built across 20 nations. We'll do just fine. Just like the JF-17 block III.
 
Who is "we" you referred to? People like you who don't want to accept reality? Wait until 2028 and you and your "imaginary friends" you referred to as "we" will be put to shame.

We aren't India to re-invent the wheel from scratch. Even the F-35 is built from tech and parts built across 20 nations. We'll do just fine. Just like the JF-17 block III.


Well, I'm still waiting since 2022 for the J-16, J-20 and ex-GB Typhoons that are all secretly flying in PAF colours ... I'm waiting for the J-35A that will be in PAF before both the PLAAF & PLAN (in fact these two services are already flying them) as promised by some 🤡 🤡 🤡 , I'm still wating for theItalian-engine, the gigger wing, fuel tanks in the cockpit walls and new engie on all JF-17s as promised by my special friend ... NOTHING of this is true or happend or will happen and in 2028 NO such radical PFX will fly.

At best JF-17+ with a greater content of indigenous sub-systems and manufacturing content is doable ... stay realistic since at the moment you are playing in the delusional league like these Indian fan-boys claiming a Rafale could kill 3 J-20, they are building a strategic bomber until 2035 and whatever! :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 

Pakistani JF-17 fighter jet makes debut at UK military airshow​


Pakistan’s JF-17 Thunder Block-III fighter jet is participating for the first time in the United Kingdom’s Royal International Air Tattoo (RIAT), world’s largest military airshow, officials confirmed Thursday.

A contingent of the Pakistan Air Force (PAF), including the JF-17 Thunder Block-III and a C-130 Hercules transport aircraft, landed at Royal Air Force Base Fairford to take part in RIAT 2025, the PAF said in a statement.

Pakistan has been a regular participant in the event since 2006.

“The PAF’s participation in RIAT, one of the world’s largest military airshows, underscores its commitment to showcasing professional excellence, operational capabilities and the indigenous strength of Pakistan’s aviation industry,” the statement said.

The JF-17 Thunder Block-III is a multirole, 4.5-generation fighter jet jointly developed by Pakistan and China. The PAF formally inducted the Block-II dual-seat variant in 2020 and began local production shortly afterward.

This year’s spotlight is on the Block-III variant, which has reportedly been used alongside Chinese-made J-10C jets in recent Pakistan-India hostilities.

“There is a palpable sense of enthusiasm across the United Kingdom following the recent Pakistan-India conflict, as aviation enthusiasts and defense observers were eagerly looking forward to the arrival of the JF-17 Thunder Block-III,” the PAF said.

The aircraft’s combat capabilities have drawn global attention, making its RIAT debut a highlight of this year’s show.

During its journey to the UK, the JF-17s conducted successful air-to-air refueling operations with the support of a PAF IL-78 tanker, demonstrating the air force’s extended operational reach.


@Windjammer

Anyone planning on going???
 
pfx is a 4.5++ Gen. jet not 5th Gen....Turkiye also hadn't designed a single jet before KAAN and Hurjet but they are successful so we can be successful too...we are seeking assistance from Chinese friends in this projects.

Turkey has built the Hurjet, Hurkus, has a long running engine development programme and world class universities who have contributed to core and fundamental R&D that have contributed to these projects, and decades of aircraft manufacturing in multiple different development programmes.
 
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Turkey has built the Hurjet, Hurkus, has a long running engine development programme and world class universities who have contributed to core and fundamental R&D that have contributed to these projects, and decades of aircraft manufacturing in multiple different development programmes.

Yeah, and they also must have learned alot when they were in F-35 programme making parts for it
 
Well, I'm still waiting since 2022 for the J-16, J-20 and ex-GB Typhoons that are all secretly flying in PAF colours ... I'm waiting for the J-35A that will be in PAF before both the PLAAF & PLAN (in fact these two services are already flying them) as promised by some 🤡 🤡 🤡 , I'm still wating for theItalian-engine, the gigger wing, fuel tanks in the cockpit walls and new engie on all JF-17s as promised by my special friend ... NOTHING of this is true or happend or will happen and in 2028 NO such radical PFX will fly.

At best JF-17+ with a greater content of indigenous sub-systems and manufacturing content is doable ... stay realistic since at the moment you are playing in the delusional league like these Indian fan-boys claiming a Rafale could kill 3 J-20, they are building a strategic bomber until 2035 and whatever! :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Dear General Deino - I've seen your posts for like 20 years now and appreciate majority of your work (note: majority, not all). Over the history, many things you've stated turned out to be wrong because you yourself analyze, don't have "ins". That's ok though.

You didn't know Galium Nitride tech was in J-10's radar tech, and J-20 and J-35 use Silicon Carbibe. So J-10C's radar was a WHOLE generation ahead of Rafale because Rafale's AESA still uses gen-1, Galium Arsenide (GaAs), which is why, after May's embarrassment, India now wants its own Uttam (GaN based), in Rafale M's. The F-35 and F-22 are gen-2, and use Gallium Nitride. This is a recent mention I did to one of the threads @MastanKhan debated with you. This is recent example so I'll just stick to that.

I've not mentioned J-16 in PAF's colors in my life. In fact, in one of the threads where you were trying to butcher someone who talked about may be J-20 in Pakistan, I told you the design flaws of the J-20 with relations to PAF's requirements and that "it won't be effective, even if offered".

The information I provide, I take pride in. From LM's F-35 to PAC's JF-17, you can try to "mock" the information but can't discredit it. Now coming to this post here, in PFX's case, wait until 2028-2030 and mark my post, day and time. Till then, cheers!
 
Turkey has built the Hurjet, Hurkus, has a long running engine development programme and world class universities who have contributed to core and fundamental R&D that have contributed to these projects, and decades of aircraft manufacturing in multiple different development programmes.

In comparison, Pakistan continues to lag behind both Turkey and even India in building a robust, self-sustaining defense industrial base. The underlying challenge is systemic: Pakistan lacks a culture of incentivized research and development, compounded by an overreliance on external partners. Historically dependent on the U.S., and now increasingly on China, Pakistan has yet to cultivate the domestic expertise necessary for next generation aviation platforms.

Despite over 30 years of experience in rebuilding mirage aircrafts, Pakistan still unable to build indigenous development of fuselage structures, radar bays, cockpit framing, or advanced composites. Even after two decades of collaboration on the JF-17 Thunder, Pakistan still cannot initiate or complete the PFX (Pakistan Fighter eXperimental) program without substantial foreign assistance.

The ambitious AZM project was a bold attempt to break this dependency but failed, largely due to constrained funding and gaps in technical expertise. Current trajectory indicates incremental upgrades to the JF-17, primarily in radar systems, avionics, and minor structural modifications likely to be branded as PFX.

Operational plans suggest additional J-10C fighter jets will be inducted between 2025–2026 to phase out aging fleets like the F-7 and Mirage. Meanwhile, the anticipated induction of the J-35 around 2028 marks a significant leap in capability. Pakistan has also laid out intentions to host infrastructure supporting the KAAN project by 2030, in partnership with Turkey.

Encouragingly, Turkey is open to transferring components manufacturing to Pakistan as a cost-optimization measure, which could serve as a stepping stone to deeper industrial collaboration. However, for Pakistan to truly transform its defense ecosystem, it must invest in long-term institutional reforms and cultivate a culture of innovation moving from license assembly lines to strategic independence.
 
Dear General Deino - I've seen your posts for like 20 years now and appreciate majority of your work (note: majority, not all). Over the history, many things you've stated turned out to be wrong because you yourself analyze, don't have "ins". That's ok though.

You didn't know Galium Nitride tech was in J-10's radar tech, and J-20 and J-35 use Silicon Carbibe. So J-10C's radar was a WHOLE generation ahead of Rafale because Rafale's AESA still uses gen-1, Galium Arsenide (GaAs), which is why, after May's embarrassment, India now wants its own Uttam (GaN based), in Rafale M's. The F-35 and F-22 are gen-2, and use Gallium Nitride. This is a recent mention I did to one of the threads @MastanKhan debated with you. This is recent example so I'll just stick to that.

I've not mentioned J-16 in PAF's colors in my life. In fact, in one of the threads where you were trying to butcher someone who talked about may be J-20 in Pakistan, I told you the design flaws of the J-20 with relations to PAF's requirements and that "it won't be effective, even if offered".

The information I provide, I take pride in. From LM's F-35 to PAC's JF-17, you can try to "mock" the information but can't discredit it. Now coming to this post here, in PFX's case, wait until 2028-2030 and mark my post, day and time. Till then, cheers!
Man, I don't mind you getting into a dispute with @Deino . But you need to do some basic research first.

Your speech is full of a lot of basic errors. There are so many mistakes that I don't even want to point them out to you one by one.

If you continue to use a lot of basic errors to prove your point, it will only make people think you are an extreme nationalist.
 
Man, I don't mind you getting into a dispute with @Deino . But you need to do some basic research first.

Your speech is full of a lot of basic errors. There are so many mistakes that I don't even want to point them out to you one by one.

If you continue to use a lot of basic errors to prove your point, it will only make people think you are an extreme nationalist.

Michael is here! You and I had a discussion on a couple of issues before. You seem to have NO background in those and there's no real answers there.

Instead of writing plain English to some how "make a point". Write FACTS. This isn't a Bubba tea house. We are debating on facts. We are also NOT friends from Szechuan.

So write facts about what issues you might have. People come here for facts, not personal opinions. Thanks
 
Michael is here! You and I had a discussion on a couple of issues before. You seem to have NO background in those and there's no real answers there.

Instead of writing plain English to some how "make a point". Write FACTS. This isn't a Bubba tea house. We are debating on facts. We are also NOT friends from Szechuan.

So write facts about what issues you might have. People come here for facts, not personal opinions. Thanks
OK. Let me talk about some obvious problems.

In the field of radar technology, the chip technology of T/R modules is not everything. It is just a part of radar technology.
China has made use of its strong production capacity to make the high-end technology of GaN chips extremely cheap. The daily life of ordinary Chinese people is full of various electronic products using GaN chip technology. This has also driven our military GaN AESA industry. GaN AESA can be seen everywhere in the field of China's military industry.
However, this is not all of radar technology. It also includes radar algorithms, data processing and computing capabilities, database storage capabilities, etc. The United States still has a very large advantage in these areas. Their various reconnaissance equipment is active all over the world all year round, collecting radar signal characteristics of various weapons and equipment. China does not have such a rich database. France's database is richer than China's database.
It is not a correct description to think that GaAs AESA must be backward just by the difference between GaN AESA and GaAs.

The next generation technology after GaN AESA is GaO AESA. SiC is a chip substrate technology, and it is not the same material as GaAs, GaN, and GaO.

The radar of the J-20 series fighter has undergone several major changes. But "J-20 and J-35 use Silicon Carbide" is a completely wrong statement. This statement originally came from an article in SCMP. As we all know, the accuracy of SCMP's news is very low.
 
Dear General Deino - I've seen your posts for like 20 years now and appreciate majority of your work (note: majority, not all). Over the history, many things you've stated turned out to be wrong because you yourself analyze, don't have "ins". That's ok though.

You didn't know Galium Nitride tech was in J-10's radar tech, and J-20 and J-35 use Silicon Carbibe. So J-10C's radar was a WHOLE generation ahead of Rafale because Rafale's AESA still uses gen-1, Galium Arsenide (GaAs), which is why, after May's embarrassment, India now wants its own Uttam (GaN based), in Rafale M's. The F-35 and F-22 are gen-2, and use Gallium Nitride. This is a recent mention I did to one of the threads @MastanKhan debated with you. This is recent example so I'll just stick to that.

I've not mentioned J-16 in PAF's colors in my life. In fact, in one of the threads where you were trying to butcher someone who talked about may be J-20 in Pakistan, I told you the design flaws of the J-20 with relations to PAF's requirements and that "it won't be effective, even if offered".

The information I provide, I take pride in. From LM's F-35 to PAC's JF-17, you can try to "mock" the information but can't discredit it. Now coming to this post here, in PFX's case, wait until 2028-2030 and mark my post, day and time. Till then, cheers!
Hi,

Deino is technically illiterate---.

He has not written a single article of his own writing on this forum about any weapon item---.

His information is just about picture this aircraft here or that aircraft over there---.

That is all his knowledge is. So---don't expect anything from him---.

By the way---most of our army and air force generals did not / do not know about the type of radar the aircrafts have---its function & and how they work---.
 
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OK. Let me talk about some obvious problems.

In the field of radar technology, the chip technology of T/R modules is not everything. It is just a part of radar technology.
China has made use of its strong production capacity to make the high-end technology of GaN chips extremely cheap. The daily life of ordinary Chinese people is full of various electronic products using GaN chip technology. This has also driven our military GaN AESA industry. GaN AESA can be seen everywhere in the field of China's military industry.
However, this is not all of radar technology. It also includes radar algorithms, data processing and computing capabilities, database storage capabilities, etc. The United States still has a very large advantage in these areas. Their various reconnaissance equipment is active all over the world all year round, collecting radar signal characteristics of various weapons and equipment. China does not have such a rich database. France's database is richer than China's database.
It is not a correct description to think that GaAs AESA must be backward just by the difference between GaN AESA and GaAs.

The next generation technology after GaN AESA is GaO AESA. SiC is a chip substrate technology, and it is not the same material as GaAs, GaN, and GaO.

The radar of the J-20 series fighter has undergone several major changes. But "J-20 and J-35 use Silicon Carbide" is a completely wrong statement. This statement originally came from an article in SCMP. As we all know, the accuracy of SCMP's news is very low.

I don't think you even understood my post. Let's cover from a Science / Technology to Operational effectiveness for our topic.

What's the difference in a GaN (Gallium Nitride, Gen-2) and a Silicon Carbide (SiC, Gen-3) chip? The later (SiC) can process 3 times the information in one circuit, its latest Radar tech, generation-3. I can write a world research article here, but I'll refrain from showing off like you guys. Since the topic is limited to Radar tech, in theory, a Radar when using SiC chips vs. Gallium Nitride, can have 3 times the range. That's your J-20 and J-35. While J-10C uses Gallium Nitride or Gen-2.

Now let's do a comparison. An F-35, can LITERALLY identify a ballistic missile's after burning from 1000+ Kilometers away and they use optimized Gallium Nitride (GaN) in its Radar tech and sensors. So the J-20 and J-35, should have at least 1 time more range than the F-35 (ideally 3 times per science, but we give it that new development optimizes overtime). Chinese don't spend hundreds of millions in R&D to waste when Gallium Nitride was doing what they needed done.

They needed faster processing so R&D on Silicon Carbide is similar to how China's done significant R&D on Thorium and wants it to produce energy for almost all of its energy needs in defense. This is all next generation stuff. You are dead if you technologically don't advance. China is getting on top of innovation to beat the West.

One point you made about the database, yes, threat databases, IFF, etc, are much larger for the West than they are for Chinese systems. Why? Because the West has been building better weapons since WWII using Radar and other technologies so that knowledge carriers over.
But its useless, why? Because older platforms retire.

The Chinese systems cover all major Western systems since Chinese EW and Pakistani EW platforms (they share data) have been active around South China sea, and Pakistan on the Indian side. Between China and Pakistan, capturing electronic data from Japan, South Korea, US Navy in SCS, British & EU navy ships in SCS, Taiwan and India, you cover essentially all major weapon systems from around the world.

Lastly, I've seen people here making comments towards Pakistan they come almost insulting with respect to weapon pricing, economy and all. Let's clear something up, Chinese leaders know how big of a necessity Pakistan is for them. What they say in private is A LOT different than some Chinese members views here.

Pakistan isn't China, not that big, don't have 1.4 billion people and a relevant economy. But for China's case, we provide a lifeline to China. China's entire sea lines can be shut down by QUAD in less than a few hours in a war. Indian Nicobar and Andaman islands can close off the Malaca strait in no time, in case of a war. Well, how do you by pass all that and resume supply of fuel and trade to China? Through Gawader port and CPEC infrastructure in Pakistan. So Pak-China relationship is truly an iron brother relationship, joined to the hip. It should be taken as such.

Pakistan will see significant increases in its defense industry from 2028 onwards, especially, in indigenization and KAAN will be built here in Pakistan, may be under PFX. Pakistani version of the 5th gen platform will have Turkish and Chinese weapons integrated. Many Turkish weapons will be built here also, including BVR missiles along with KAAN.

I hope this long detail was educational and now we can all understand where Pakistan is headed. Proof will be in the seeing after 2028. Thanks!

@MastanKhan saw your post above. Agreed on both issues :)
 

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