JF-17 - Updates, News & Discussion

[hoopoe]

Possibly offloading CN-235?

 

[iron shrapnel]

Earlier, Pakistan purchased a WS-21 engine. The price was RMB 100 million.
After the engine was replaced, the power generation capacity was greatly improved, and the relevant avionics system will be adjusted synchronously.
The cost increase of 10 million US dollars is a reasonable estimate.

Cost of a single ws-21 purchase with relevant adjustments would naturally be higher than let's say for 50 units... Considering J35-As will also come with WS-21s the unit cost for production will also drop significantly... It would also make JF-17 and J-35s a lucrative high low combination... Well, atleast till we see another engine for the J-35 being introduced... it would be natural to assume PAC and CAC ( i assume cac will carry out jf-17 mods if not PAC itself) would adjust JF-17 rigs so that J-35 and JF-17 can be mated with the same model of WS-21...
It would be interesting to see what changes a powerful engine brings to the JF-17s upgradation timeline..

 

[iron shrapnel]

Rumors are that Indonesia will send their pilots for training in Pakistan. Also, Pakistan has pitched Jf-17B3 to Indonesia.

Indonesia might need an aircraft with a larger combat radius...

 

[Toxic]

That ugly bass with chapri songs. Ughhh.

I play heavy metal on my stock civic speakers. Far better than those stupid boxes.

If they do it it's chapri, if you do it's cultured and having good taste.

 

[Ak01]

This is the second time you mentioned 120d holding the longest a2a kill. Shooting a BQM-167 drone over a undiscovered distance does not class as longest kill. Its rather silly. Its a flipping drone for crying out loud. We just squashed with utter disdain 4*4.5 gen rafales loaded with the top of the of the line spectra EW, and god knows what other Isreali gadgets, at extreme ranges with PL15.

I am not claiming to be an expert on aim120 series, neither you are. Many years ago, I had this discussion about 120cs Vs Sd10s, with someone, let's say, the person who knows. Answer was something along these lines that Sd10s are the real deal.

Show me one occasion where we have integrated our weapons to our fleet of F16s. None of our F16s is known to carry IREK/BREK, RA'AD, Taimoor, H4... Perhaps one exception when in 80s they were modified to carry our rudimentary bomb.

With regards to CM400, you are working on assumption, I am talking about capability. A capability which is now battle tested. So if Vs can carry something better then CM400, please discuss, let alone yanks providing such capability.

I hear your argument about datasheets, question is do you really believe them? Would anyone reveal the real capabilities. All we can do is comment on known facts, which in our case is that J10/pl15 combo is lethal, we hit the best known AD system the S400 with our JF carry Chinese CM400, and we hit their runways with pin point accuracy at impressive standoff ranges with our homegrown BREK carried by JFs. None of American product is known to achieve this level of performance agianst the top tier adversary.

I am not against Vs if say they come with aim260s. But having done some research, it seems f16 is not in the planned list of aircrafts that will be carrying it. Rather QF16s are being used as targeting drones. So from scalability point of view, if you get Vs, their sealing will be 120ds. India already operates meteors and will increase the number of rafales. You ain't going to get assured first look, first shoot capability agaisnt those 4.5 gens machines operting across the border with Vs. What you already have is j10/pl15 combo, with the option of scaling up to pl17, if needed.

“It’s a flipping drone for crying out loud”

- shows your flawed thinking. We in Pakistan don’t use proper target drones, however, the 167 is a mach .9 capable, highly agile target system.

While it won’t replicate a real life fighter 100%, it’s still a very capable and serious piece of kit. Discounting it as “just a drone” is flawed.

This same logic applies to other systems like the PL-15 too. Was the 150km range figure quoted a kill against a fighter? Of course not, it’ll be a simulated theoretical number or a kill against… drumroll… a target drone.

Also, this claim of extreme ranges is rubbish. It’s straight up crap. The one rafale kill was at what, 100km?

If someone is telling you that an SD-10A is the “real deal” compared to a 120C5, they need a check. The SD-10A is a 120A equivalent at best, relying on Russian derived seeker tech and old Chinese motors and airframe design. Delusional.

Not sure why F-16s need to carry IREK when they have a large stockpile of JDAMS to use…? Who’s gonna foot the bill for a duplicate capability? Taimur is probably not even integrated into Jf-17s lol so you’re just arguing for the sake of arguing. Just because GIDS presents something, doesn’t mean it exists.

If you’re seriously parading the CM400AKG as this amazing wonder weapon that has been “battle tested”, then id seriously take a look at what your definition of battle tested is, because “**** nuffing” is what comes to my mind when i think cm400.


Yes I believe datasheets. Data sheets are what procurements are based off of initially. We didn’t hit a runway, we didn’t hit an s400, we made Bollywood style trailers to feed local audiences and you ate it all up. The only pinpoint accurate hit we had was ispr hitting the minds of every deluded paknat convincing them we actually did something of substance.

Again, not sure how you can definitively claim your last point, do you know something we don’t?

 

[Windjammer]

 

[Taimoor]

“It’s a flipping drone for crying out loud”

- shows your flawed thinking. We in Pakistan don’t use proper target drones, however, the 167 is a mach .9 capable, highly agile target system.

While it won’t replicate a real life fighter 100%, it’s still a very capable and serious piece of kit. Discounting it as “just a drone” is flawed.

This same logic applies to other systems like the PL-15 too. Was the 150km range figure quoted a kill against a fighter? Of course not, it’ll be a simulated theoretical number or a kill against… drumroll… a target drone.

Also, this claim of extreme ranges is rubbish. It’s straight up crap. The one rafale kill was at what, 100km?

If someone is telling you that an SD-10A is the “real deal” compared to a 120C5, they need a check. The SD-10A is a 120A equivalent at best, relying on Russian derived seeker tech and old Chinese motors and airframe design. Delusional.

Not sure why F-16s need to carry IREK when they have a large stockpile of JDAMS to use…? Who’s gonna foot the bill for a duplicate capability? Taimur is probably not even integrated into Jf-17s lol so you’re just arguing for the sake of arguing. Just because GIDS presents something, doesn’t mean it exists.

If you’re seriously parading the CM400AKG as this amazing wonder weapon that has been “battle tested”, then id seriously take a look at what your definition of battle tested is, because “**** nuffing” is what comes to my mind when i think cm400.


Yes I believe datasheets. Data sheets are what procurements are based off of initially. We didn’t hit a runway, we didn’t hit an s400, we made Bollywood style trailers to feed local audiences and you ate it all up. The only pinpoint accurate hit we had was ispr hitting the minds of every deluded paknat convincing them we actually did something of substance.

Again, not sure how you can definitively claim your last point, do you know something we don’t?

Your aim120ds hit this shite at "undisclosed" range.



Pl15s knocked four of these at extreme ranges: (without going into spectra and all other crap)



One has to biased, delusional or plain stupid to even remotely compare these two. So please sit down, you are just making yourself silly, which I am sure you are not. PL15 is in a different league to your 120ds. PL15 is THE REASON yanks launched aim260 and aim 174 programs. They had to come up with aim174 and mate their carrier based f18s (the only platform that carries it) becuase of pl15s threat in Asia Pacific region. Your aim120 series is REDUNDANT when facing PL15s, yanks know it, its just you who is struggling to acknowledge.

As for that "someone", I am not at liberty to disclose the person or people I talk to. Let's just say, whatever you have seen with your eyes (declassified) or what you haven't (classified), carried by our fleet, it's on the fingertips of that someone. All you are doing is behaving like Indians did when they saw the "E" on PL15s.

I am amazed you dismissing the benefits of customising your jets with homegrown weapons! You are going fly into heavy AD environments with your F16s carrying JDAMs? Are you ok?

Your rants about cm400 and brek, I will leave you at it.

My last point very simple. Your ceiling with f16s is 120ds, j10 already carrying Superior PL15s and can be up scaled to PL17 if threat assessments change across the border. What's hard to understand this basic point?

 

[Windjammer]

 

[iron shrapnel]

View attachment 135066

View attachment 135067

If only the cockpit glass was actually green...

 

[Psyko70]

View attachment 135066

View attachment 135067

No kill marks

 

[Ak01]

Your aim120ds hit this shite at "undisclosed" range.

View attachment 135071

"this shite" says everything you need to know.

Pl15s knocked four of these at extreme ranges: (without going into spectra and all other crap)

View attachment 135073

One has to biased, delusional or plain stupid to even remotely compare these two. So please sit down, you are just making yourself silly, which I am sure you are not. PL15 is in a different league to your 120ds. PL15 is THE REASON yanks launched aim260 and aim 174 programs. They had to come up with aim174 and mate their carrier based f18s (the only platform that carries it) becuase of pl15s threat in Asia Pacific region. Your aim120 series is REDUNDANT when facing PL15s, yanks know it, its just you who is struggling to acknowledge.

first it was 3, now its 4, 100km doesnt sound very "extreme ranges" to me. Says everything.

As for that "someone", I am not at liberty to disclose the person or people I talk to. Let's just say, whatever you have seen with your eyes (declassified) or what you haven't (classified), carried by our fleet, it's on the fingertips of that someone. All you are doing is behaving like Indians did when they saw the "E" on PL15s.

yes saar old agat based sd10a supreme

I am amazed you dismissing the benefits of customising your jets with homegrown weapons! You are going fly into heavy AD environments with your F16s carrying JDAMs? Are you ok?

Your rants about cm400 and brek, I will leave you at it.

My last point very simple. Your ceiling with f16s is 120ds, j10 already carrying Superior PL15s and can be up scaled to PL17 if threat assessments change across the border. What's hard to understand this basic point?

yes saar, j-10 upscaled to pl17, does AVIC know this is possible or has our resident chief engineer taimoor saar gone ahead and decided this on their behalf...?

aivey our people love to talk utter shit and jerk themselves off to delusion. Did PL-15s vaporize the other 3 rafales? does that mean now youre claiming 8 jet kills plus a drone plus whatever other retarded fantasies youve cooked up? give me a break.

Your credibility died when you claimed SD10A supremacy over a 120C5. lol.

 

[Taimoor]

"this shite" says everything you need to know.

Precisely, you are the only one keep on insisting on stupidity, not even realising what you are honking. An undisclosed range at which this drone was shot, somehow becomes the longest ever BVR kill for you? What are you smoking?

first it was 3, now its 4, 100km doesnt sound very "extreme ranges" to me. Says everything.

You are nobody, so if you keep on repeating the same BS about 100kms kills, it wont become the truth sunshine. Its rather pathetic your getting your juices going on by yanks shoting at some "drone" and then you are comparing that with Pl15 knocking out agile, highly manoeuvrable 4.5 gen aircraft with state of the art self protection! At this point, I am losing my interest in engaging you.

yes saar, j-10 upscaled to pl17, does AVIC know this is possible or has our resident chief engineer taimoor saar gone ahead and decided this on their behalf...?

aivey our people love to talk utter shit and jerk themselves off to delusion. Did PL-15s vaporize the other 3 rafales? does that mean now youre claiming 8 jet kills plus a drone plus whatever other retarded fantasies youve cooked up? give me a break.

Your credibility died when you claimed SD10A supremacy over a 120C5. lol.

Your ignorance is not my problem, neither I am here to entertain you. Had enough interaction to know that you are a typical keyboard junkie.

 

[Rational Philosopher]

The J-10Cs radar likely cannot see out far enough to even utilise the benefits of a PL-17s range, which is why it's carried by larger Flankers.

That being said Americans have decades of research lead on the Chinese in seeker technology and propellant mixture and density. I am willing to bet they'll retain this advantage for a while. This isn't to take away from Chinese achievements but the US choosing not to operationalise something first doesn't mean it doesn't have it. It would've been overkill to release an AIM-260 when you already dominate.

Just like we know the USA has had highly advanced tech demonstrators of concepts like HGV, tailless stealth jets, etc, under extremely intense testing environment decades before the Chinese.

 

[Toxic]

The J-10Cs radar likely cannot see out far enough to even utilise the benefits of a PL-17s range, which is why it's carried by larger Flankers.

That being said Americans have decades of research lead on the Chinese in seeker technology and propellant mixture and density. I am willing to bet they'll retain this advantage for a while. This isn't to take away from Chinese achievements but the US choosing not to operationalise something first doesn't mean it doesn't have it. It would've been overkill to release an AIM-260 when you already dominate.

Just like we know the USA has had highly advanced tech demonstrators of concepts like HGV, tailless stealth jets, etc, under extremely intense testing environment before the Chinese.

Ok this is pretty non sensical, AIM 260 is the Answer to the PL-15 meaning it came from China gaining the range advantage, could it have been developed earlier? Sure but it isn't like the US is just sitting on technologies waiting on seeing what China has then just pressing the release button, also tech demo's still need further development they are demos for a reason.

 

[Rational Philosopher]

Ok this is pretty non sensical, AIM 260 is the Answer to the PL-15 meaning it came from China gaining the range advantage, could it have been developed earlier? Sure but it isn't like the US is just sitting on technologies waiting on seeing what China has then just pressing the release button, also tech demo's still need further development they are demos for a reason.

The Americans had no reason to field the AIM-260 until the advantage was lost. This is being misconstrued as the Americans falling behind in tech, when it just wasn't a necessity.

Same with tech demonstrators, they validate the underlying technology and put it through ruthless testing but have no reason to operationalise the tech when they already have a desicive advantage. US testing is far more rigorous than powers like Russia who operationalise things far more prematurely.

If the US was in a rush to operationalise the tech, they could of, but it's considered overkill. The US didn't actually see China as a peer threat until recently.