JF-17 - Updates, News & Discussion

[bravo_1]

Just trying to figure out the jist of your post, not sure if you're being sarcastic, but if security was really that bad, wondering why the Indians knew so little.

They just underestimated us bro, basically we and china successfully made the چ out of them about ranges of our sticks lol

 

[Corax]

i dont think a single engagement is conclusive of anything unfortunately.

There is no decisive answer for what the Indians did and what happened that night, only the PAF, IAF and God know. If the Indians didnt have information, thats an intelligence failure on their part, but denying that the situation is pretty poor would be burying your head in the sand.

Anyway, i dont shit on Pak for the sake of it, i shit on Pak because criticism is the first step to improving.

I think we should leave god out of it, he has enough to worry about. It's not a single engagement we're talking about though, the result was the same back in 2019 too - the Indians underestimated the PAF. I don't doubt that the likes of the US and by extension the Israelis have taps into the Pak military, and if what you say is true then those are serious gaps to plug, but it seems in any case the PAF's own ISR capabilities against their foes isn't too shabby either, and we could see what they were doing.

 

[m52k85]

Your entire point was without JF-17 and Chinas assistance with it, PAF would have been a 300 F7 force, something demonstrably false- there were options available.

The cheetah literally got an integrated ECM suite nearly 50 years before the JF-17 did lol. And PS, the Kfir block 60 was due to recieve the ELM/M 2052- so yes, the Cheetah could have absolutely have been fitted with an AESA.

In terms of missiles, the a darter development began 20 years ago and it was a bloody good missile, again, SA was very open to exporting and production agreements, which WE lost out on, EDGE of UAE picked it up and has a pretty good headstart.

Not to mention, SA had been working on 'long sticks' before the PAF even got into the BVR era.

View attachment 151766

You really think A- darter could be any where as good as the Pl-15? Out range the meteor? A-darter promises would have taken shape just like the R-77s did for India, because both share a small, funding depleted set of users.

Does that look like a ramjet.. Im glad we didnt go down that route.

 

[Ak01]

I think we should leave god out of it, he has enough to worry about. It's not a single engagement we're talking about though, the result was the same back in 2019 too - the Indians underestimated the PAF. I don't doubt that the likes of the US and by extension the Israelis have taps into the Pak military, and if what you say is true then those are serious gaps to plug, but it seems in any case the PAF's own ISR capabilities against their foes isn't too shabby either, and we could see what they were doing.

of course, we are blessed with an incompetent enemy, but the question is for how long can we stay comfortable knowing the indians are idiots

@Oscar can talk about this better than me

 

[m52k85]

the tinfoil hats are out in full swing

Do you have anything in critique of the argument rather than adhominems?

 

[Ak01]

You really think A- darter could be any where as good as the Pl-15? Out range the meteor? A-darter promises would have taken shape just like the R-77s did for India, because both share a small, funding depleted set of users.

Does that look like a ramjet.. Im glad we didnt go down that route.

did you read what i wrote?

 

[gamaji]

answer it lol, your claims crumble.


Again, another cheap attempt at deflecting lol.

That was the similar BS as you have written in this post.

Tell me, of that 58% of the airframe, where does the raw material for it come from? Where do the components come from?

You're asking me what 58% parts of Thunders Kamra is making? How would I, a layman, know what many officials probably don't know. But again only a retard will ask for specific names of components being produced in Pakistan while the issue under discussion is something else. Pakistan is producing (or assembling as you claim) war planes in the country with Chinese help. Whereas the west would never have transferred the tech to do even that much in Pakistan. I am now pretty sure you are indeed comprehension issue.

Claiming that MKI is more Indian that JF-17 is Pakistani reminds me of slumdogs. I see no difference.

I have mentioned several other examples before but, again, your thick skull failed to comprehend those examples. We are producing tanks (Al Khalid, Al Zarrar, and now under license production of Haidar tanks with many indigenous sub-systems), missiles factory to produce M-9 and M-11 equivalents just to name a few. Chinese helped Pakistan a lot in nukes field too so much so by providing a nuke design and initially lending the enriched uranium to KRL. Can your western masters provide all that to Pakistan? Only a shameless but faithful dog will keep happily licking masters' feet even after getting wheat and soybeans for the money paid for the fighter jets. What a disgraced idiot.

If this is what you believe i am doing, then this is a flaw in your comprehension skills.

5 months ago, i said Chinese sams are insufficient for our needs, and they need to seek equiptment from elsewhere, HQ-16/9 cannot do the heavy lifting for our threat environment. Similar roaches like you crawled out... "waah waaah, cheen pak dosti, no trust europe, china supreme saar"... and today the PAF is seeking the exact type of western origin SAM's i outlined.

Only a fool will pick an issue of AD (if your words taken at the face value) like that and try to urinate at the plate that he is eating from. A system failure is not something unusual. And it certainly does imply that Chinese tech is inferior across the board. Why you forget what the Chinese PL-15s, J-10Cs, SH-15, etc. have done to the enemy in May? I feel pity for you but will expose you every time you behave like an ungrateful d*g.

You gave me zero examples lol, because there are none... Infact, you even tried to make stuff up to try and prove your weak point lol

lol didn't Michael say above that China wouldnt sell pak anything that disturbs the balance of power in the region? Has China sold Pak anything that was game changing? (no...)/

But yes, that is my mission, as with every moron whos argument crumbles, the answer is always YAHOODI/RAAA AGENT SAAR!

We all have seen your lies and shitty args. When you are caught then you start claiming Janes is not the same as it used to be.

You have picked a Chinses (i.e. AD) system and claimed it underperformed (without providing any evidence) and conveniently forgot to mention other Chinese systems that performed beyond expectations and that exposes your character and dishonesty to say the least. Your mission seems to harm Pakistan in any way.

 

[gamaji]

I think we should leave god out of it, he has enough to worry about. It's not a single engagement we're talking about though, the result was the same back in 2019 too - the Indians underestimated the PAF. I don't doubt that the likes of the US and by extension the Israelis have taps into the Pak military, and if what you say is true then those are serious gaps to plug, but it seems in any case the PAF's own ISR capabilities against their foes isn't too shabby either, and we could see what they were doing.

Agreed. It was not a single engagement. Like in 2019, Indians were active for many nights before May 7th, vectoring and probing Pak responses (caps, vectoring, radar activity, etc.), studying those responses and fine tuning their own plans. Actual air war was on the 7th of May but it was the culmination of intense air activity of many nights.

 

[sutton9999]

Speak of which, did Pakistan (individual or state?)sell the nuclear bomb design manual in Chinese to Gaddafi?

Legend says, Gaddafi waved that manual during a UN assembly speech.
It was widely reported.
--------
washingtonpost.com
Libyan Arms Designs Traced Back to China
Pakistanis Resold Chinese-Provided Plans

By Joby Warrick and Peter Slevin
Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, February 15, 2004; Page A01

Investigators have discovered that the nuclear weapons designs obtained by Libya through a Pakistani smuggling network originated in China, exposing yet another link in a chain of proliferation that stretched across the Middle East and Asia, according to government officials and arms experts.

washingtonpost.com: Libyan Arms Designs Traced Back to China

 

[gamaji]

Speak of which, did Pakistan (individual or state?)sell the nuclear bomb design manual in Chinese to Gaddafi?

Legend says, Gaddafi waved that manual during a UN assembly speech.
It was widely reported.
--------
washingtonpost.com
Libyan Arms Designs Traced Back to China
Pakistanis Resold Chinese-Provided Plans

By Joby Warrick and Peter Slevin
Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, February 15, 2004; Page A01

Investigators have discovered that the nuclear weapons designs obtained by Libya through a Pakistani smuggling network originated in China, exposing yet another link in a chain of proliferation that stretched across the Middle East and Asia, according to government officials and arms experts.

washingtonpost.com: Libyan Arms Designs Traced Back to China

Different times, different strategic realities, and different alliances. Just like Americans extended cooperation to Europe and some European countries helped Israel.

 

[ThoroughPro]

Yea we should not be too optimistic for big tickets item, maybe some equipments for our sof...

Why ACM for SOF stuff?

 

[bravo_1]

Why ACM for SOF stuff?

I wasn't referring to ACM meet

 

[PakistaniDefender]

today the PAF is seeking the exact type of western origin SAM's i outlined.

Any details? ??

 

[Oscar]

That was the similar BS as you have written in this post.

You're asking me what 58% parts of Thunders Kamra is making? How would I, a layman, know what many officials probably don't know. But again only a retard will ask for specific names of components being produced in Pakistan while the issue under discussion is something else. Pakistan is producing (or assembling as you claim) war planes in the country with Chinese help. Whereas the west would never have transferred the tech to do even that much in Pakistan. I am now pretty sure you are indeed comprehension issue.

Claiming that MKI is more Indian that JF-17 is Pakistani reminds me of slumdogs. I see no difference.

I have mentioned several other examples before but, again, your thick skull failed to comprehend those examples. We are producing tanks (Al Khalid, Al Zarrar, and now under license production of Haidar tanks with many indigenous sub-systems), missiles factory to produce M-9 and M-11 equivalents just to name a few. Chinese helped Pakistan a lot in nukes field too so much so by providing a nuke design and initially lending the enriched uranium to KRL. Can your western masters provide all that to Pakistan? Only a shameless but faithful dog will keep happily licking masters' feet even after getting wheat and soybeans for the money paid for the fighter jets. What a disgraced idiot.



Only a fool will pick an issue of AD (if your words taken at the face value) like that and try to urinate at the plate that he is eating from. A system failure is not something unusual. And it certainly does imply that Chinese tech is inferior across the board. Why you forget what the Chinese PL-15s, J-10Cs, SH-15, etc. have done to the enemy in May? I feel pity for you but will expose you every time you behave like an ungrateful d*g.

We all have seen your lies and shitty args. When you are caught then you start claiming Janes is not the same as it used to be.

You have picked a Chinses (i.e. AD) system and claimed it underperformed (without providing any evidence) and conveniently forgot to mention other Chinese systems that performed beyond expectations and that exposes your character and dishonesty to say the least. Your mission seems to harm Pakistan in any way.

Without the emotions involved -
if you cannot provide how and what of 58% JF-17 Pakistan is making your point is conjecture and much like the claims on damage to additional Rafale's cannot be proved.

Technically, a lot of "indigenous" systems in Pakistan are assembly plainly because you lack the overall industrial base to provide what you need to assemble. So he may actually be right that the MKI is more Indian than the JF-17 because India has all of the industrial base from the point of raw material to where it is airframe ready aluminum or composite than Pakistan has to even Produce a K-8.

While you are on an abusive tangent please also think as to why Pakistan has to import Wasabi even if Sushi joints open in Pakistani cities like every entitled upper middle class to elite kid was born eating it... Or rather simply, how much oil do you import?
If you cannot produce something from Raw material to end - heck , even if you have raw to refine it - much like your textile industry at one point had to EXPORT COTTON AND GET MATERIAL BACK to complete it's products.
You talk to officials I will give you a first hand example.

Go to NRTC website.

The original "dabba" for this is from ASELSAN - the first few hundred probably more.
The entire initial firm ware and common board is from ASELSAN.
So essentially this is like buying a Dell computer with everything installed out of the box and the OS there.
Then, because of Pakistan specific EW and compression needs - the encryption board was designed on a Pakistani computer and then the design was sent to a factory in China(who sent rubbish examples initially before QC was coordinated with them).
We then worked on improving other things based on internal requirements, wrote software for various functions - how each key press would do what differently because ASELSAN sent the guides on how to interact with each component controller of the overall "box".

There was a newer motherboard developed for it as well, designed in Pakistan on the initial ASELSAN design - but the test boards for it came from US companies manufactured in China. We then ordered the exact chipset from the factory from China without the famous US company branding on it - but then they never performed exactly even though they were made in the same factory. Go figure.

Now, Once it was all put together in the initial days the box still said ASELSAN - but NRTC in their wisdom would put NTRC stickers on it and we in our usual "mischief" would randomly remove some.

Is it 70% Pakistani or 58% or even 20% Pakistani?
I cannot give you the exact figure - you could say its barely 10% based on the way everything was manufactured from raw materials to components which would be assembled in Pakistan - but then the design of many aspects were from Pakistan.

So when someone claims 58% Pakistani what does that mean?
The design is fully CATIC even if you had Pakistani engineers on site providing manpower assistance due to CATIC team stretched thin.
Your entire flight test program was conducted at manufacturer facility but you did provide test pilots for more advanced stages of test program.
The entire avionics suite was built in China which you now are able to assemble more and more so in house.
And much like the Radio example you put a Rhode and Scwartz radio initially onto it(or have they updated that @Quwa ? ) and sent the aircraft monitoring system contract to a US company which helps you keep track of what's what.
So you made changes to what you needed - provided suggestions back to factory - added systems from other places beyond China so that COUNTS FOR SOMETHING.

But when your screens started shutting off mid flight (this happened to the MKI as well!) because your entire system was made in China and you had little idea beyond the surface as to how it works and is all integrated(much like Indians did not bother taking notes from Thales on their MFDs) you scrambled to ask anyone and everyone including fanatics who once fought with the Taliban in Afghanistan for help.

So while you can throw out the abuses and Indian accusations and both you can ruin the thread - it is good to ask - what exactly do you assemble?
To India's credit - they can manufacture everything from a needle to a car with MOST of the raw material to finished product process happening in India. You still do CKDs for our 70cc motorcycles.

 

[hasssanali8998]

View attachment 151727


Id like you to tell me who did the US sell us the largest export AMRAAM order for...? taliban?

i am dying , these niggas saying they destroyed f16 by showing amraam pieces