JF-17 - Updates, News & Discussion

Goenitz said:
just 3 JF 17 prevented a coup in a neighboring country by NAF
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ok so the testing phase is over

now Nigeria needs to order a multi billon order for dozens of Block 3
 
Aziqbal said:
ok so the testing phase is over

now Nigeria needs to order a multi billon order for dozens of Block 3
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Think so. Also, look at the pod on the taxing aircraft.
They don't have such a threat, I guess, to buy more.
 
maxpane said:
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So another "JF-17 sale" being paraded about was 'an expression of interest'- aka, meaningless.

The saudi deal was nonsense

the sudan deal was dubious at best

The Bengali deal is the same as the Iraqi

and the Libiyan deal sounds like nonsense also.

Are we celebrating expressions of interests this much? The indians could parade the same really. Why celebrate instead of being level headed?
 
Ak01 said:
So another "JF-17 sale" being paraded about was 'an expression of interest'- aka, meaningless.

The saudi deal was nonsense

the sudan deal was dubious at best

The Bengali deal is the same as the Iraqi

and the Libiyan deal sounds like nonsense also.

Are we celebrating expressions of interests this much? The indians could parade the same really. Why celebrate instead of being level headed?
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we have to wait until materialize. yes ypu are right about everything until its proven.
 
maxpane said:
we have to wait until materialize. yes ypu are right about everything until its proven.
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Just in reference to the credibility of the authors,

theprint.in

Pakistan signs $1.5 billion deal to sell lethal combat weapons to Sudan's junta

The deal, believed to be paid for by a third nation, will give the Sudanese Armed Forces access to light attack aircraft, engines, armoured fighting vehicles & unmanned aerial vehicles.
theprint.in theprint.in

www.armyrecognition.com

Sudanese junta turns to Pakistan for drones, missiles, and vehicles to reverse the civil war outcome

Sudanese junta turns to Pakistan for indigenous and Chinese armaments to reverse the civil war outcome
www.armyrecognition.com www.armyrecognition.com

The package includes an array of air, land, and air defense systems that significantly upgrade the Sudanese Armed Forces’ combat capabilities. Among the acquisitions are 10 K-8 Karakorum light attack and trainer jets, 20 Shahpar-2 combat drones, 150 YIHA-III tactical drones, 50 MR-10K surveillance UAVs, and 50 Ababeel-5 long-range strike drones. Deliveries will also include engines for Sudan’s aging MiG-21 fleet, 150 Mohafiz armored security vehicles, and advanced Chinese-made HQ-9 and HQ-6 surface-to-air missile systems. Initial shipments are expected before the close of 2025, signaling a rapid modernization effort aimed at altering the battlefield balance.


this was the sudan deal.

and now, months later, the authors 'sources say'


"The deal with Pakistan encompasses 10 Karakoram-8 light attack aircraft, more than 200 drones for scouting and kamikaze attacks, and advanced air defence systems, said two of the three sources with knowledge of the matter, who all sought anonymity."


How funny, isnt it, their exclusive sources leaked the same info to some random website in august lol.

"It was a "done deal", said Aamir Masood, a retired Pakistani air marshal who continues to be briefed on air force matters."

One key thing with people like this. Once they leave the forces, their pensions are never enough, they always need more money. Whats the best way to make money? Sell nonsense news, gather clicks, start up rubbish podcasts and make news appearances... easiest way to make money. They use their ranks as a veil of credibility, but it all falters when none of it comes through. They are not infallible, rather, motivated by the same things that false news peddlers and propagandaists are motivated by. Money.
 
Ak01 said:
Just in reference to the credibility of the authors,

theprint.in

Pakistan signs $1.5 billion deal to sell lethal combat weapons to Sudan's junta

The deal, believed to be paid for by a third nation, will give the Sudanese Armed Forces access to light attack aircraft, engines, armoured fighting vehicles & unmanned aerial vehicles.
theprint.in theprint.in

www.armyrecognition.com

Sudanese junta turns to Pakistan for drones, missiles, and vehicles to reverse the civil war outcome

Sudanese junta turns to Pakistan for indigenous and Chinese armaments to reverse the civil war outcome
www.armyrecognition.com www.armyrecognition.com

The package includes an array of air, land, and air defense systems that significantly upgrade the Sudanese Armed Forces’ combat capabilities. Among the acquisitions are 10 K-8 Karakorum light attack and trainer jets, 20 Shahpar-2 combat drones, 150 YIHA-III tactical drones, 50 MR-10K surveillance UAVs, and 50 Ababeel-5 long-range strike drones. Deliveries will also include engines for Sudan’s aging MiG-21 fleet, 150 Mohafiz armored security vehicles, and advanced Chinese-made HQ-9 and HQ-6 surface-to-air missile systems. Initial shipments are expected before the close of 2025, signaling a rapid modernization effort aimed at altering the battlefield balance.


this was the sudan deal.

and now, months later, the authors 'sources say'


"The deal with Pakistan encompasses 10 Karakoram-8 light attack aircraft, more than 200 drones for scouting and kamikaze attacks, and advanced air defence systems, said two of the three sources with knowledge of the matter, who all sought anonymity."


How funny, isnt it, their exclusive sources leaked the same info to some random website in august lol.

"It was a "done deal", said Aamir Masood, a retired Pakistani air marshal who continues to be briefed on air force matters."

One key thing with people like this. Once they leave the forces, their pensions are never enough, they always need more money. Whats the best way to make money? Sell nonsense news, gather clicks, start up rubbish podcasts and make news appearances... easiest way to make money. They use their ranks as a veil of credibility, but it all falters when none of it comes through. They are not infallible, rather, motivated by the same things that false news peddlers and propagandaists are motivated by. Money.
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aair masood i thought he is a decent guy may be some credbile thats my personal opinion
 
maxpane said:
aair masood i thought he is a decent guy may be some credbile thats my personal opinion
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put it this way, something as sensitive as selling equipment to a internationally sanctioned state would not be broadcast by the PAF to its retired servicemen to broadcast. This is something that can really backfire on Pakistan, so, just factor that in mind
 
Ak01 said:
put it this way, something as sensitive as selling equipment to a internationally sanctioned state would not be broadcast by the PAF to its retired servicemen to broadcast. This is something that can really backfire on Pakistan, so, just factor that in mind
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MoFA did reject it .

also pls send a vigo to this guy
 
Ak01 said:
put it this way, something as sensitive as selling equipment to a internationally sanctioned state would not be broadcast by the PAF to its retired servicemen to broadcast. This is something that can really backfire on Pakistan, so, just factor that in mind
Click to expand...
This is doubtful, how can we provide mig-21 engines? advanced Chinese-made HQ-9 and HQ-6 surface-to-air missile systems?
 
Fatman17 said:
AM (retd) Amir Masood is the eminent source for JF-17 Thunder aircraft future sales development. He has been closely associated with PAC. look for his detailed interview on the current situation with JF-17 orders and how is PAF going to cater to these deliveries as well as filful the requirements of the PAF. At the moment PAF is waiting for the delivery of the 3rd JF-17 Thunder Block lll squadron.
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Air Commodore (r) Khalid Chishti said in an interview I was listening to today that he was made aware of the Sudan deal about 6 months earlier but wasn't allowed to reveal it.

He said, the figure is higher than the reported $1.5 billion. He said, he can't say because Sudan wants the details to be kept confidential.

He also explained that a lot of the buyers don't want their purchases to be made public because they fear the bigger regional and world powers will pressure them to cancel them.

I think as Pakistanis, we should learn to keep our gobs shut until the eggs have hatched and not get over excited about these news or go around spreading it as much as possible.
 
Ak01 said:
put it this way, something as sensitive as selling equipment to a internationally sanctioned state would not be broadcast by the PAF to its retired servicemen to broadcast. This is something that can really backfire on Pakistan, so, just factor that in mind
Click to expand...
There is also a more benign and less aggressive explanation - after all many folks who have nothing to do with PAF also tend to make up news.
Getting angsty at former officers for earnings is not a way to approach it when you have every other technical school website developer in chichawatni starting up a youtube channel and raking in money(good on them) based on utter nonsense.
Best is to highlight why these deals fall through.

Take this example from Ward on YT - he has put this as a "pretty wild account" - he is F-14 rio and had Chishti on as well and everyone was applauding his "veracity".

But in any world or logic does this seem like immediately credible because he posted it? But it is also possible that he was given assurances that it was credible or that he simply did it for clicks.
1768174620135.png

The same way, it is possible you hear something from a channel - I could post an actual image of a block-72 brochure and call it veracity but at the end it may just be someone picking it up from the Dubai airshow, having a conversation and reporting it as "we are talking" and now Block-72s are landing in Pakistan.

There is another part of it that goes into procurement - part of it is being good salespeople which unfortunately out of their usual environment Pakistanis seldom are. This involves actually shelling out the deal health before proceeding on calls and funds/budget etc.

Usually with middle eastern deals this is a total unknown because their level of commitment is based on their willingness to be thrice interested in deals with you versus even a partial interest in western or their own vendors leads to immediate signature. Part of it is your own fault. Part of it is their bias based on experiences with you and general bias.

I suggest a read of ACdre Mansoor Shah's "gold bird" but specifically the part where he talks about how PAF was tasked by RSAF to recommend a fighter from the F-5, F-104 and E.E Lightening. The PAF Recommendation was F-5 top, F-104 poor second and lightening dead last.
Guess which the Saudis bought?
And when asked about it they said they didnt trust the recommendation because the PAF operates the F-104 even when they could get the F-5 and etc etc.
Until many years later the whole Al-yamama thing came out so this too made sense.

The last bit is events - you yourself have pulled out of various procurements because allocated budgets for next years get pulled for situations - key e.g. is 2nd sq of Block 52 which was to be assigned to a future year budget but the earthquake ate into it so a smaller budget was allocated - which amusingly while not enough for jets was enough for staff car replacements so that year new Civics were procured at scale.
 
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