JF-17 - Updates, News & Discussion

[Oscar]

I call bullshit on everything Reuters has said.

None of the news is legit as far as I know, I think one was sort of realistic but other than that the rest are nonsense

It's editorial lax at Reuters. They use AI to scrape news and AI does so still focused on GEO and LEO prioritized sources. If the editor in charge then is lets say not versed to know what sources are worthy(for e.g. that Myanmar anti Junta source) then they simply go ahead and publish it.

 

[Oscar]

If PAC can come up with a structural life extension program. Heck let's say CATIC. Then certainly yes. Remember that the first block 1 entered service in 2007 and as far as we know there is no program to extend its structural life. If we do the dangerous thing and pawn off airframes without structural life to desperate air forces (who will have bad maintenance practices on top of this) we will see a stupid amount of unavailability and crashes. Don't think we want that kind of publicity.

The majorly local "effort" Block-1s have other issues besides just structural age. They are best left to replace the F-7s in the "last ditch" fleet.

 

[Ali_Baba]

where's the guy who was asking for 4 pl15s in the air

It is Mr @airhead .

 

[gamaji]

tbh...I think the IAF and HAL tried to do much with the Tejas all at once. For ex., even when CATIC offered a fully digital FBW system, the PAF itself opted for a hybrid system for Block-1 because it was lower risk and faster time-to-delivery. The fully digital FBW wouldn't come until the JF-17B and Block-3.

IMO, had the IAF and HAL literally gone into the Tejas with the base mindset that it'd be a fairly simple MiG-21bis replacement, then they could've had a serviceable system years ahead of the PAF did with the JF-17. But when things like relaxed stability, digital FBW, etc., were baked in from the start or early in the design stage, the LCA was set up for high risk, and it went through them.

Saab AB trying to position itself as a leading system integrator only verifies the fact that a country that lacks the design and manufacturing capabilities of a complete fighter jet can still emerge as a major producer of sophisticated systems. And still there are many people on this forum who think Pakistan needs to produce most, if not all, systems used in Thunders, including screws and rubber components, completely in house from the basic raw material, some of them even suggesting Pakistan should follow this approach starting with Mashshaq trainer aircraft.

As the integration of several types of weapons and munitions into Thunder reportedly for PAF and Azeri Thunders show that Kamra is trying to position itself as a system integrator of Thunders. In fact, it seems Kamra is trying to do much more, than just being a system integrator, by producing Thunders with many locally produced components. Moreover, as the initiation of PFX project indicates, Pakistan is making strides into the design and develop aspects of the project too with assistance from friendly countries like China and Turkiye.

 

[JamD]

The majorly local "effort" Block-1s have other issues besides just structural age. They are best left to replace the F-7s in the "last ditch" fleet.

Really?I didn't know about that.

 

[Ak01]

Saab AB trying to position itself as a leading system integrator only verifies the fact that a country that lacks the design and manufacturing capabilities of a complete fighter jet can still emerge as a major producer of sophisticated systems. And still there are many people on this forum who think Pakistan needs to produce most, if not all, systems used in Thunders, including screws and rubber components, completely in house from the basic raw material, some of them even suggesting Pakistan should follow this approach starting with Mashshaq trainer aircraft.

As the integration of several types of weapons and munitions into Thunder reportedly for PAF and Azeri Thunders show that Kamra is trying to position itself as a system integrator of Thunders. In fact, it seems Kamra is trying to do much more, than just being a system integrator, by producing Thunders with many locally produced components. Moreover, as the initiation of PFX project indicates, Pakistan is making strides into the design and develop aspects of the project too with assistance from friendly countries like China and Turkiye.

IMO, i wonder if the PAF would be better off ditching this indigenous circlejerk they started.

Look at what they did for the mirages, sustain without oem help for this long, etc. Imagine if we we're to buy a fighter type and eventually phase out sustainment items like spares etc from abroad and replace them with local ones. Start off with development of local LLP's to replace foreign ones etc.

Then refocus kamra's line onto some more attainable efforts. Heck, id rather piss 500m into development of missiles or sensors, than co manufacturing of airframes etc.

 

[Cipher212]

View attachment 174699

Looks off. Vapour condensation but its flying level?

 

[Oscar]

Really?I didn't know about that.

But it goes into QC and some systems integrations issues.
Mostly resolved, but just as the first year of any new car is full of bugs and issues - so were the block-1s.

 

[Oscar]

IMO, i wonder if the PAF would be better off ditching this indigenous circlejerk they started.

Look at what they did for the mirages, sustain without oem help for this long, etc. Imagine if we we're to buy a fighter type and eventually phase out sustainment items like spares etc from abroad and replace them with local ones. Start off with development of local LLP's to replace foreign ones etc.

Then refocus kamra's line onto some more attainable efforts. Heck, id rather piss 500m into development of missiles or sensors, than co manufacturing of airframes etc.

One aspect missed is that the decisions that led to this stem beyond PAF's ASRs and into geopolitics and national "trauma" post first Afghan war and US exit.

Merge that with "I can do it" overconfidence(mixed with self interest)

 

[gamaji]

IMO, i wonder if the PAF would be better off ditching this indigenous circlejerk they started.

Look at what they did for the mirages, sustain without oem help for this long, etc. Imagine if we we're to buy a fighter type and eventually phase out sustainment items like spares etc from abroad and replace them with local ones. Start off with development of local LLP's to replace foreign ones etc.

How is what you're proposing is different from what Kamra is doing with Thunders?

Then refocus kamra's line onto some more attainable efforts. Heck, id rather piss 500m into development of missiles or sensors, than co manufacturing of airframes etc.

Each and every weapon systems has its own role in any war fighting effort. Are you proposing Pakistan go Iran's way and get its azz kicked every now and then?

 

[Toxic]

Look at what they did for the mirages, sustain without oem help for this long, etc. Imagine if we we're to buy a fighter type and eventually phase out sustainment items like spares etc from abroad and replace them with local ones. Start off with development of local LLP's to replace foreign ones etc.

Isn't that what the JF-17 was about from the start?

 

[Ak01]

Isn't that what the JF-17 was about from the start?

it might have been the intention, however, every nut, bolt and gasket is imported from China.

 

[Ak01]

How is what you're proposing is different from what Kamra is doing with Thunders?

Because they don’t do this?

Each and every weapon systems has its own role in any war fighting effort. Are you proposing Pakistan go Iran's way and get its azz kicked every now and then?

Sorry but I’m not sure why Pakistan would get its arse kicked for buying off the shelf airframes and integrating local tech with them…?

 

[hasssanali8998]

Spoiler: 😝

 

[Ali_Baba]

Spoiler: 😝

View attachment 174812

Now - that would be one hell of a custom Paintjob. I wonder, with machine painting, if they could get close to a full on paint job like this. Would be gorgeous of course. Imagine this turning up at RIAT, or Farnborough/Paris.