JF-17 - Updates, News & Discussion

[maxpane]

I think we debated about Indians using hundreds of Brahmos next time. Now we are talking about package bigger than 72. I just don't understand 1 thing. Why do we trust any Indian news about acquisition but question PAF plans? PAF is planning 40 J-10C and 36 J-35 to my knowledge, with more JF-17 blk 3. IAF will not get any new aircraft except Tejas till 2028. Time and again we have run different scenarios for wargaming. It is IAF and not PAF that is really worried about sqn strength.

i think in simple word ager mujhy itni samjh ha tu paf wale kon se bachy hain . tey are in the game and thinking for next 50 years

 

[m52k85]

3 each, so 6 sqn and we don't need to replace them all.

I believe there are more than 3 mirage squadrons. three Rose squadrons (7, 25 and 27) and the OCU 22 atleast. Then there was the new no. 50 as well if I am not wrong.

Update: Never mind, I found the answer.

 

[Aziqbal]

JF17 Block I production rates 2007-2013

07-101 to 07-105 thats 5 units
08-106 to 08-108 that's 3 units
09-109 to 09-112 that's 4 units
10-113 to 10-128 that's 16 units
11-129 to 11-136 that's 8 units
12-137 to 12-142 that's 6 units
13-143 to 13-150 that's 8 units

7 years 50 aircraft x Block I

JF17 Block II production rates 2015-2018

15-201 to 15-216 that's 16 units
16-217 to 16-234 that's 18 units
17-235 to 17-250 that's 16 units
18-251 to 18-262 thats 12 units

4 years 62 aircraft x Block II

JF17B Block II production rates 2019-2020

19-601 to 19-612 that's 12 units
20-613 to 20-626 that's 14 units

2 years 26 aircraft x JF17B Block II

JF17 Block III production rates 2022-2025/26

22-301 to 22-317 thats 17 units
23-318 to 23-323 thats 6 units
and now we have 25-342

maximum production rate was 18 units per year in 2016

no doubt the year can be mis-leading due to mixing of years and numbers

I dont know why we had a 2 year break between 2020 and 2022 the change from JF17B to Block 3 gap

also Block 3 seems to be slower productions

by 2026 Block 3 should have been finished long ago, we stopped double digit production although in 2022 we had 17 units

happy to be corrected !

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Never reached full potential of 24 Units per year
Should have attained 240-250 Count in 2018

 

[PakShaheen_79]

I think we debated about Indians using hundreds of Brahmos next time. Now we are talking about package bigger than 72. I just don't understand 1 thing. Why do we trust any Indian news about acquisition but question PAF plans? PAF is planning 40 J-10C and 36 J-35 to my knowledge, with more JF-17 blk 3. IAF will not get any new aircraft except Tejas till 2028. Time and again we have run different scenarios for wargaming. It is IAF and not PAF that is really worried about sqn strength.

My reply was strictly in context of those 130 odd fighters that needs to be replaced and crux of my argument is PAF can retire all these with induciton of fewer number of more high tech fighters (as you originally said that we don't need to replace them one-on-one basis) to which I agreed consider current situation but pointed out the need of maintaining a balance of power for future. Now you read too much into it. I never points out any timeframe but just to clarify I was talking about post 2030 scenaio. 40 J-10C and 36 J-35 would be indeed a great power boost but tell me one thing objectively. While IAF has signed deal for 114 Rafale, has PAF signed a deal for either these J-10Cs and J-35 as of now? Has any PAF official gave a statement confirming any such plan? So no officially confirmed, government approved acquistion plan. It's all chatter right now or proposal at best. I will certainly believe PAF's acquistion plan when I will see one. I will factor both in my discussion when there will be a confirmed formal deal with clear timeline of induction. Plus, IAF is already worried about sqn strength and once they do that (even with Tejas) that will be time for PAF to worry about because even with lower squadron strength IAF has numerical advantage which is to increase further if IAF just meet its sanctioned sqd strength without increasing their number. Now, I know this is not going to happen tomorrow or in 2028. PAF is comfortable position till 2030 even with current inventory but that scenario will begin to change rapidly once IAF will begin induction of both Rafale and Tejas MK2. (I don't consider Tejas MK1A a very credible threat). That's all I was pointing out. Peace.

 

[Pakistanithinktank]

That's a big number to be replaced. Almost 7+ squadrons.

The way things are going, we are looking at 2035 to replace 7+ squadrons.

 

[sphinxpasha]

Indonesia opts for M346 light fighters from Leonardo after the Rafale deal. Pakistan's JF-17 exports remain a pipe dream!

Leonardo, PT ESystem Solutions and the Ministry of Defence Of the Republic of Indonesia sign M-346 F AIRCRAFT Letter of Intent to meet Indonesian Air Force training and combat requirements

www.leonardo.com

 

[mythbuster]

Iran is the most impossible customer ever. Out of 195 countries, maybe the last one.

Your defense minister himself told that we are on US supplied ventilators and they can switch it off whenever they want. Your govt nominates Trump for nobel peace prize and your PM sing rhymes in Trump's glory at intl stage. On the other hand you think Pak govt can sell fighter jets to Iran the problem is only "financing" LOL! Thanks for the entertainment!

Pakistan cannot even think about this, Imagine we agreed with Iran for gas pipeline. Iran completed construction on its side but we didn't do on our side because US told us to not even think about it. The oil and gas via pipeline would have been extremely cheap for Pakistan. We can't even do this stuff and you think US will stay silent on defense production ?? Where is your ability to process information ? US is hell bent on destroying Iranian military capabilities and you think we are independent enough to face the sanctions?

Secondly, KSA-Pak defense pact isn't against anybody but against Iran. Iran and its affiliates (houthis) are number one threat for KSA. We can never think about supplying weapons to Iran as long as we have defense and economic interests intertwined with KSA.

Lastly, there is no official confirmation that Iran is even interested at all. There's no authenticity of your cooked up story that Pakistan even approached chinese banks.

You can't rule it out , there is high probability of America and Iran reaching some sort of compromise on nuclear and missile issues . Right now , Iranians are willing to concede on the nuclear issue , if they made some concessions on long range ballistic missiles then they may be allowed to develop their air force....jf 17 suits them to the T if they overcome their hubris .

 

[mythbuster]

130+ with around 80 Mirage aircraft.

What's the possible alternative for nukes carrying mirages.

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

JF17 Block I production rates 2007-2013

07-101 to 07-105 thats 5 units
08-106 to 08-108 that's 3 units
09-109 to 09-112 that's 4 units
10-113 to 10-128 that's 16 units
11-129 to 11-136 that's 8 units
12-137 to 12-142 that's 6 units
13-143 to 13-150 that's 8 units

7 years 50 aircraft x Block I

JF17 Block II production rates 2015-2018

15-201 to 15-216 that's 16 units
16-217 to 16-234 that's 18 units
17-235 to 17-250 that's 16 units
18-251 to 18-262 thats 12 units

4 years 62 aircraft x Block II

JF17B Block II production rates 2019-2020

19-601 to 19-612 that's 12 units
20-613 to 20-626 that's 14 units

2 years 26 aircraft x JF17B Block II

JF17 Block III production rates 2022-2025/26

22-301 to 22-317 thats 17 units
23-318 to 23-323 thats 6 units
and now we have 25-342

maximum production rate was 18 units per year in 2016

no doubt the year can be mis-leading due to mixing of years and numbers

I dont know why we had a 2 year break between 2020 and 2022 the change from JF17B to Block 3 gap

also Block 3 seems to be slower productions

by 2026 Block 3 should have been finished long ago, we stopped double digit production although in 2022 we had 17 units

happy to be corrected !

You missed the 7 JF-17 Thunders with Myanmar - 5 Alphas and 2 Bravos (I think).

2020-2021 - Covid, economy issues.

 

[Ibbi32]

What's the possible alternative for nukes carrying mirages.

Mirages aren’t primary nuclear platforms anymore. Since 2011 i believe jf-17s have taken over and there are 2 squadrons of them (can’t remember number of the top my head) that carry primary nuclear strike missions for PAF

 

[AeronautIR]

What's the possible alternative for nukes carrying mirages.

JF-17 Thunder fleet.

 

[AeronautIR]

My reply was strictly in context of those 130 odd fighters that needs to be replaced and crux of my argument is PAF can retire all these with induciton of fewer number of more high tech fighters (as you originally said that we don't need to replace them one-on-one basis) to which I agreed consider current situation but pointed out the need of maintaining a balance of power for future. Now you read too much into it. I never points out any timeframe but just to clarify I was talking about post 2030 scenaio. 40 J-10C and 36 J-35 would be indeed a great power boost but tell me one thing objectively. While IAF has signed deal for 114 Rafale, has PAF signed a deal for either these J-10Cs and J-35 as of now? Has any PAF official gave a statement confirming any such plan? So no officially confirmed, government approved acquistion plan. It's all chatter right now or proposal at best. I will certainly believe PAF's acquistion plan when I will see one. I will factor both in my discussion when there will be a confirmed formal deal with clear timeline of induction. Plus, IAF is already worried about sqn strength and once they do that (even with Tejas) that will be time for PAF to worry about because even with lower squadron strength IAF has numerical advantage which is to increase further if IAF just meet its sanctioned sqd strength without increasing their number. Now, I know this is not going to happen tomorrow or in 2028. PAF is comfortable position till 2030 even with current inventory but that scenario will begin to change rapidly once IAF will begin induction of both Rafale and Tejas MK2. (I don't consider Tejas MK1A a very credible threat). That's all I was pointing out. Peace.

I am sure PAF has plans for 2030s. We will talk about Tejas Mk2 being a credible threat when it is inducted.

 

[Aziqbal]

You missed the 7 JF-17 Thunders with Myanmar - 5 Alphas and 2 Bravos (I think).

2020-2021 - Covid, economy issues.

To be honest I made this list after bravos were built maybe 2020 and kept it as a record I just updated it now with block 3 so that time I did not include the exports

Yes True also Nigeria got 3 units when was that ?

Also Azerbaijan got a delivery few months ago so production must have picked up now

 

[Be dazzled]

To be honest I made this list after bravos were built maybe 2020 and kept it as a record I just updated it now with block 3 so that time I did not include the exports

Yes True also Nigeria got 3 units when was that ?

Also Azerbaijan got a delivery few months ago so production must have picked up now

Ramped up since 2023-24. More orders likely booked but not yet disclosed. 13 negotiating 5 have almost finalised 2 orders already secured after AZ order. Things are speeding up fast