JF-17 - Updates, News & Discussion

[LX1111]

Engines have been a curse on the entire JF17 programme from the outset.

Originally when the Super-7 project was not giving what the PAF wanted, they came up with the FC-1 design and at that time they approached the Russians for the Saturn AL-31 series of engines to power the FC-1.

This would have given a platform far closer to the F16 than what it is now. India was successful in convincing Russia to not supply the Saturn AL-31, and instead the Russians only authorized the RD-93 series for the project. This was unfortunate as a JF17 with the Saturn AL-31 would have been a beast.

Unfortunately the internet forgets, and I am recalling this from memory from the time at the inflection point between the Super-7 and FC-1 programmes and the discussions at the time on the internet.

(happy to be wrong if my memory is giving out on this fact!)

When the Mikoyan Design Bureau was initially collaborating with the 611 Institute (Chengdu Aircraft Design Institute), they proposed using the AL-31 engine to design a fighter that would surpass the F-16, believing that any fighter developed in the 1990s had to outperform the F-16. However, China responded that its budget was limited and it could only use a smaller engine to develop a lighter fighter. This had nothing to do with India.

 

[Pakistan First]

to those who think blk1 is not BVR capable

I don't understand your baseless comment lol. Who told you that there could be anyone who "think" blk1 is not BVR capable? Nobody in their right mind would ever think such a stupid thought.

Whole purpose of JFT was to bring BVR capability to the fleet as the main factor. SD10s came right with the first squadron in 2007-08. Its first aircraft which provided BVR capability to PAF.

Don't assume things on your own.

 

[MastanKhan]

answer to those who think blk1 is not BVR capable

Hi,

I am pretty sure that the BLK 1 was not BVR capable---. It came as a ground strike aircraft and most of the older members of the forum at that time were shocked including myself---.

I believe it was due to the Radar---. The French had reneged on the EW package and the PAF had to rush back to the chinese---.

 

[Fatman17]

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[MastanKhan]

Engines have been a curse on the entire JF17 programme from the outset.

Originally when the Super-7 project was not giving what the PAF wanted, they came up with the FC-1 design and at that time they approached the Russians for the Saturn AL-31 series of engines to power the FC-1.

This would have given a platform far closer to the F16 than what it is now. India was successful in convincing Russia to not supply the Saturn AL-31, and instead the Russians only authorized the RD-93 series for the project. This was unfortunate as a JF17 with the Saturn AL-31 would have been a beast.

Unfortunately the internet forgets, and I am recalling this from memory from the time at the inflection point between the Super-7 and FC-1 programmes and the discussions at the time on the internet.

(happy to be wrong if my memory is giving out on this fact!)

Hi,

Thanks for an interesting post---.

Here is what I recall---and my intake---.

First of all---Super& was a 3rd gen design---. JF17 is a 4th gen design---. There are inherent differences in the structure and design of both aircrafts.---.

As far back I can remember---PAF had bet on the chinese engine for the JF17---. There are rumors that the original JF17 was maybe 25% larger than the current aircraft---if that was so---then they migh have been thinking of a larger engine---.

Hindsight 20/20---I think that Rtd. AM Latif made the right choice by producing a smaller aircraft than the F16---possibly knowing at that time that the advancement in technology will make the JF17 as capable as the F16's or better---.

Plus giving it a MODULAR DESIGN---a lots of changes could be handled without much hinderance---.

RD93 had been the right choice of engine by the Paf---whatever information has come out---it has shown to be a successful performer---.

At the end of the day---the F17 has proven t be an extremely successful program---.

Why it did not sell well---it was due to the failure of the PAF heirarchy---. They had no clue as to the Sales value capability and aircraft replacement value of the JF17---.

 

[studsmart]

Hi,

I am pretty sure that the BLK 1 was not BVR capable---. It came as a ground strike aircraft and most of the older members of the forum at that time were shocked including myself---.

I believe it was due to the Radar---. The French had reneged on the EW package and the PAF had to rush back to the chinese---.

You are as always correct, the initial batch of Blk1 was not BVRified. but later batches were or somethign like that. The rest is history, now all blk1 are SD10A capable at a minimum.

 

[m52k85]

You are as always correct, the initial batch of Blk1 was not BVRified. but later batches were or somethign like that. The rest is history, now all blk1 are SD10A capable at a minimum.

Yes it is quite standard, for the very initial ones to not have met the full 'air staff req'. The Typhoon is another example. The only ones to insist such things are IAF who then land with projects like the Tejas.

For the Jf-17, it was around 2015 we started seeing the SD-10s on them, just as the block 2s were starting to come, with the block 1s getting the necessary patch in phases.

 

[Pakistan First]

You are as always correct, the initial batch of Blk1 was not BVRified. but later batches were or somethign like that. The rest is history, now all blk1 are SD10A capable at a minimum.

I have not seen a single credible post by @MastanKhan till date. He's known to write stuff out of his butt. Block 1's are BVR capable. Its not done recently or even in 2015. Its right from the start (2010). Remember we are talking about Block-1s and not talking about its development / super 7s or even the prototypes. We are talking about around 3 squadrons of block-1s.

Here's the news link to prove it:

Weapon Integration Underway On JF-17 | Aviation Week

The Pakistan air force is in the process of integrating the Chinese PL-12/SD-10 medium-range, radar-guided air-to-air missile on its JF-17 light fighter aircraft. The Chengdu FC-1/JF-17 is in production in Pakistan, and two of the aircraft were on static display at the show. Test rounds of the...

aviationweek.com

and here's the video of JF-17 first intl airshow in 2010. The static display showing SD-10s:

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Its quite possible very first units may not be integrated with SD-10s. Remember the very first batch that PAF received was of 08 units. But nobody is talking about the first few units. You guys are talking about "Block-1" as a whole. So factually that statement is ABSOLUTELY incorrect that JF-17s Block-1s are / were not BVR capable. If someone wants to talk about first 8 units then they have to specify that.

 

[Ali_Baba]

I have not seen a single credible post by @MastanKhan till date. He's known to write stuff out of his butt. Block 1's are BVR capable. Its not done recently or even in 2015. Its right from the start (2010). Remember we are talking about Block-1s and not talking about its development / super 7s or even the prototypes. We are talking about around 3 squadrons of block-1s.

Here's the news link to prove it:

Weapon Integration Underway On JF-17 | Aviation Week

The Pakistan air force is in the process of integrating the Chinese PL-12/SD-10 medium-range, radar-guided air-to-air missile on its JF-17 light fighter aircraft. The Chengdu FC-1/JF-17 is in production in Pakistan, and two of the aircraft were on static display at the show. Test rounds of the...

aviationweek.com

and here's the video of JF-17 first intl airshow in 2010. The static display showing SD-10s:

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For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

Its quite possible very first units may not be integrated with SD-10s. Remember the very first batch that PAF received was of 08 units. But nobody is talking about the first few units. You guys are talking about "Block-1" as a whole. So factually that statement is ABSOLUTELY incorrect that JF-17s Block-1s are / were not BVR capable. If someone wants to talk about first 8 units then they have to specify that.

btw - at 1.06, the person on the right in sunglasses with a dark top was Munir ( who passed away ). He was an active poster on this forum for some time.