JF-17 - Updates, News & Discussion

[Be dazzled]

Turkmenistan gearing up for book 3. Aselsan brochure revelation hints plus new hangars for the possible induction.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Turkmenistan gearing up for book 3. Aselsan brochure revelation hints plus new hangars for the possible induction.

If true, then this is more bad news for the replenishment/retirement of the F7/Mirage fleet in the PAF as it gets distracted with money making schemes if Turkmenistan is a potential buyer.

We can see, no new JF17C inductions in the PAF while Kamra works on the Azerbaijan order, so it is clear that PAF/Kamra is incapable of both meeting the needs of the PAF for new platforms while at the same time, exporting jets in parallel. It seems all or nothing approach with the way the line has been setup?

I am not entirely convinced it is a pure "PAF has no money problem", i think the distraction is for cash/foreign sales etc.

 

[Yasser76]

If true, then this is more bad news for the replenishment/retirement of the F7/Mirage fleet in the PAF as it gets distracted with money making schemes if Turkmenistan is a potential buyer.

We can see, no new JF17C inductions in the PAF while Kamra works on the Azerbaijan order, so it is clear that PAF/Kamra is incapable of both meeting the needs of the PAF for new platforms while at the same time, exporting jets in parallel. It seems all or nothing approach with the way the line has been setup?

I am not entirely convinced it is a pure "PAF has no money problem", i think the distraction is for cash/foreign sales etc.

Yes, said it before and say it again. It frankly is bizarre that no new Block III or J-10C Sqds have come online for last 2-3 years. Economy has improved, our credit rating has improved, Makkah pact means Saudis will be more helpful financially.

It is our own fault if we went around chasing orders knowing our own air force will suffer, but to be fair, unless you are US, China or the Eurofighter consortium with several production lines, producing another above 25 units a year on a single line will be a struggle. Look at France with Rafail and Swedes with Gripen. Even now French Air force has been taking deliveries of Rafael for over 20 years but only has 112 in service out of a total of 185 ordered, despite Dassault having produced 360 odd planes! This situation may well happen to PAF now

I dont fully blame Kamra/PAC, we need foreign export deals, but we should have a plan B like more quick J-10C inductions or even knocked up The Donald for some second hand F-16s. Anything but keeping F-7s flying in 2026!

 

[gamaji]

Did you raise it in GHQ?
If so - where is the thread for that and the conversation?

Oscar sahib, it happened again.
I would like to complain about the coward who thread-banned me from the following thread without any reason, notice, or warning:

Thread 'Yemen Civil War News and Discussion.. an evolving situation'

Dec 16, 2023

https://twitter.com/centcom/status/1736035863849824595?s=46&t=1FKqbpkO8Da7_SuOad5WHw

• F-22Raptor
• Replies: 5,409
• Forum: Middle East & Africa

Obviously that coward was unable to take a dignified course of action by either responding me logically or at least warning me about what caused so much pain to him.

I hope at least someone is out there having some decency and dignity.

 

[Cipher212]

If true, then this is more bad news for the replenishment/retirement of the F7/Mirage fleet in the PAF as it gets distracted with money making schemes if Turkmenistan is a potential buyer.

We can see, no new JF17C inductions in the PAF while Kamra works on the Azerbaijan order, so it is clear that PAF/Kamra is incapable of both meeting the needs of the PAF for new platforms while at the same time, exporting jets in parallel. It seems all or nothing approach with the way the line has been setup?

I am not entirely convinced it is a pure "PAF has no money problem", i think the distraction is for cash/foreign sales etc.

I like it. Rather we sell JF-17 Block 3s now so we can afford the J-35s and all the infrastructure that comes with it later. Money issue is real and its not going away. Country is NOT doing well financially, rather it has only been stabilized....at rock bottom.

You can also explain lack of new squadrons by the simple fact that currently our aircraft are more than enough to take on anything in IAF. It was the AD that was lacking and thats exactly whats being procured right now. We got 3 or 4 new systems revealed if I'm not wrong?

 

[Michael]

Yes, said it before and say it again. It frankly is bizarre that no new Block III or J-10C Sqds have come online for last 2-3 years. Economy has improved, our credit rating has improved, Makkah pact means Saudis will be more helpful financially.

It is our own fault if we went around chasing orders knowing our own air force will suffer, but to be fair, unless you are US, China or the Eurofighter consortium with several production lines, producing another above 25 units a year on a single line will be a struggle. Look at France with Rafail and Swedes with Gripen. Even now French Air force has been taking deliveries of Rafael for over 20 years but only has 112 in service out of a total of 185 ordered, despite Dassault having produced 360 odd planes! This situation may well happen to PAF now

I dont fully blame Kamra/PAC, we need foreign export deals, but we should have a plan B like more quick J-10C inductions or even knocked up The Donald for some second hand F-16s. Anything but keeping F-7s flying in 2026!

In the second half of 2025, CATIC exhibited a JF-17B at the Changchun Airshow in China; based on photographs, it appeared to have been fitted with the WS-21 engine.

Shortly thereafter—around early 2026—Pakistan released footage showing PAC testing a new engine for the JF-17 fighter jet.

These events all point to a single conclusion: the JF-17 fighter series is undergoing an upgrade. This indirectly confirms a previous speculation: the JF-17B3 suffers from a serious lack of engine power. The JF-17B3's avionics system is a downgraded version of the technology from China's 5th-Gen fighter jet. Despite the reduction, its power consumption still exceeds the support limits of the RD-93 series engines.

Once the JF-17 series fighters are equipped with the WS-21 engine, their avionics suite is expected to reach an optimal state. Pakistan could even explore developing specialized platforms based on the JF-17B—such as an electronic warfare (EW) fighter or a mothership for Manned-Unmanned Teaming (MUM-T) operations. Of course, for now, this remains speculative.

 

[Yasser76]

In the second half of 2025, CATIC exhibited a JF-17B at the Changchun Airshow in China; based on photographs, it appeared to have been fitted with the WS-21 engine.

Shortly thereafter—around early 2026—Pakistan released footage showing PAC testing a new engine for the JF-17 fighter jet.

These events all point to a single conclusion: the JF-17 fighter series is undergoing an upgrade. This indirectly confirms a previous speculation: the JF-17B3 suffers from a serious lack of engine power. The JF-17B3's avionics system is a downgraded version of the technology from China's 5th-Gen fighter jet. Despite the reduction, its power consumption still exceeds the support limits of the RD-93 series engines.

Once the JF-17 series fighters are equipped with the WS-21 engine, their avionics suite is expected to reach an optimal state. Pakistan could even explore developing specialized platforms based on the JF-17B—such as an electronic warfare (EW) fighter or a mothership for Manned-Unmanned Teaming (MUM-T) operations. Of course, for now, this remains speculative.

Interesting speculation, I find it surprising PAF are going to continue investing in the JF-17 now that other options are being looked at (J-35, KAAN)

 

[RealNapster]

If true, then this is more bad news for the replenishment/retirement of the F7/Mirage fleet in the PAF as it gets distracted with money making schemes if Turkmenistan is a potential buyer.

We can see, no new JF17C inductions in the PAF while Kamra works on the Azerbaijan order, so it is clear that PAF/Kamra is incapable of both meeting the needs of the PAF for new platforms while at the same time, exporting jets in parallel. It seems all or nothing approach with the way the line has been setup?

I am not entirely convinced it is a pure "PAF has no money problem", i think the distraction is for cash/foreign sales etc.

There were no foreign country orders between 2024 and 2025. Yet we inducted zero in PAF. The problem is not PAC but our own prioritization issues.

 

[Michael]

Interesting speculation, I find it surprising PAF are going to continue investing in the JF-17 now that other options are being looked at (J-35, KAAN)

First, we need to be absolutely clear about one point: the JF-17 is a cost-effective fighter combat platform.

Due to its own economic reasons, Pakistan needs it. Whether it is the FC-31/J-35 or the lower-priced J-10CE, the PAF would find it difficult to afford large-scale procurement and deployment. As for KAAN, I’d rather not comment. That would invite a barrage of criticism from too many people.

Therefore, when analyzing the development of the JF-17 series fighter jets, we should not skip the "cost-effective" framework. If we step outside this framework and project unrealistic expectations onto it, the ultimate outcome will disappoint many people; consequently, many will lash out at relevant institutions—such as PAC, PAF, and CAC—or even the governments of China and Pakistan. This is clearly not a positive development.

Light fighter aircraft have specific operational roles. Within the current PAF, they still hold significant value. As for the future, my personal view is that they should be developed into UCAVs or CCAs. However, for the PAF, manned JF-17s remain necessary at this stage.

 

[Deino]

In the second half of 2025, CATIC exhibited a JF-17B at the Changchun Airshow in China; based on photographs, it appeared to have been fitted with the WS-21 engine.

Shortly thereafter—around early 2026—Pakistan released footage showing PAC testing a new engine for the JF-17 fighter jet.

These events all point to a single conclusion: the JF-17 fighter series is undergoing an upgrade. This indirectly confirms a previous speculation: the JF-17B3 suffers from a serious lack of engine power. The JF-17B3's avionics system is a downgraded version of the technology from China's 5th-Gen fighter jet. Despite the reduction, its power consumption still exceeds the support limits of the RD-93 series engines.

Once the JF-17 series fighters are equipped with the WS-21 engine, their avionics suite is expected to reach an optimal state. Pakistan could even explore developing specialized platforms based on the JF-17B—such as an electronic warfare (EW) fighter or a mothership for Manned-Unmanned Teaming (MUM-T) operations. Of course, for now, this remains speculative.

Are you sure it was a WS-21? IMO it looks at least different to those fitted to the J-35:

IMO it looks more like a special WS-13.

 

[Michael]

Are you sure it was a WS-21? IMO it looks at least different to those fitted to the J-35:
IMO it looks more like a special WS-13.

No!

This is just a guess.

1. Chinese official bodies have not yet formally unveiled the WS-21 and WS-19 engines; all information regarding them stems from academic papers or professional reports issued by relevant organizations. There has been no official announcement to date.

2. Judging solely by photographs, the engine powering this JF-17B fighter exhibits differences from all known engine models. The exhaust nozzle features a serrated inner ring and a smooth outer ring—a characteristic never seen before.

Regardless of its final designation, one thing is certain: this is a "new toy."